[gregincambodia]

Re: Greetings

Dr. Creation has still failed to provide any scripture to support his fluffy bunny claim that God loves sinners. I'm not surprised of course, because that scripture does not exist

In fact, he has still not referenced any scripture at all other than that perennial hippie's choice John 3:16

Tell me Doc, have you actually read any other parts of the Bible? Or, are you just basing your beliefs on what some pothead professor taught you in art school?

[gregincambodia]

Re: Greetings

As I have been told this is not a debate forum. So please don't debate over my beliefs here please.

This is not a debate. You are just wrong

I stated what I believe, and it is not subject to change. I have a firm conviction, and I am 100% my salvation is true.

God brought you here for a reason. He has given you this opportunity to study and understand His divine wisdom in the fellowship of True Christians™ Please, do not turn your back on Him at this critical juncture.

I may lack in knowledge of the Bible.

Yup. Now that you realize it, It is time to pick up that KJV 1611 and learn.

Again, this is just what I believe, and I wish to stop disusing this now.

God also wants for you to stop disusing the Bible.

[Dr. Creation]

Re: Greetings

Dr. Creation has still failed to provide any scripture to support his fluffy bunny claim that God loves sinners. I'm not surprised of course, because that scripture does not exist

In fact, he has still not referenced any scripture at all other than that perennial hippie's choice John 3:16

Tell me Doc, have you actually read any other parts of the Bible? Or, are you just basing your beliefs on what some pothead professor taught you in art school?

verses to support my claim:
Romans 5:8

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Romans 8:37-39

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God. who loved me and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 John 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


These are just what I have had time to research right now. I will provide more later when I have more time to research. And I did not go to an art school. I am sorry for the misspelling. I have always been a bad speller, and it does not help I was tired when I wrote that.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings

Correct. I did spell College wrong. But what I mean is God loves sinners. What I do not mean: God loves people who have rejected Him. If that clears anything up.

Yes. You just need to acknowledge that babies which died at or shortly after birth are included on the list of people who rejected God, and therefore will burn in Hell forever.

verses to support my claim:
Romans 5:8

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

See the past tense there? Apostle Paul talks to people who used to be sinners but now walk the narrow path to Heaven.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Again, this is directed towards Christians. As fa as non-Christian go, God sends them delusions and false prophets, so they will go to Hell:

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Romans 8:37-39

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again, this is spoken to those who love .

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God. who loved me and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ditto.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Here we are told that God selects who is going to be saved and who won't; clearly it means that God does not love everybody equally!

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Again, this is spoken to those who believe.

These are just what I have had time to research right now. I will provide more later when I have more time to research. And I did not go to an art school. I am sorry for the misspelling. I have always been a bad speller, and it does not help I was tired when I wrote that.

Please, do research. Even better: read the Bible. All of it. Also, please feel free to follow the links in my signature - they are filled with Bible verses which show God's true nature. And no, He is not the love-for-all hippie type you were told He is.

[Dr. Creation]

Re: Greetings

Yes. You just need to acknowledge that babies which died at or shortly after birth are included on the list of people who rejected God, and therefore will burn in Hell forever.



See the past tense there? Apostle Paul talks to people who used to be sinners but now walk the narrow path to Heaven.

Again, this is directed towards Christians. As fa as non-Christian go, God sends them delusions and false prophets, so they will go to Hell:

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, this is spoken to those who love .

Ditto.

Here we are told that God selects who is going to be saved and who won't; clearly it means that God does not love everybody equally!

Again, this is spoken to those who believe.

Please, do research. Even better: read the Bible. All of it. Also, please feel free to follow the links in my signature - they are filled with Bible verses which show God's true nature. And no, He is not the love-for-all hippie type you were told He is.

The verse Romans 5:8 hits the nail on the proverbial head.

Jesus died for people when they where still sinners. If that is not love for sinners I don't know what is.

The verse
Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

does not mean God chose people who will be saved. Although I know a lot of people that think that. ANYONE can be saved. RACE, GENDER, AGE ect. do NOT MATTER. It is God's gift to the people He made.

Half these verses you said apply to believers do not. Romans 5:8 - God loved us enough while we where sinners to die for us.
1 John 4:10 - We did not lover God when He died for us, but He still loved us.

You again took all these verses out of context.

[gregincambodia]

Re: Greetings

Doc, you admitted to ignorance of the Bible. Then, twelve minutes later you provided verses from 5 different books which you seem to think support your pothead philosophy. Tell us, did you use those twelve minutes to read the KJV 1611? Or, did you joogle some keywords and copy paste some random internet poo on these Godly forums?

Since you continue to have context issues, I will give you some helpful study guides:

Who wrote Romans?
To whom was he writing?
When did he write it?
What did he mean by "us"?

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings

The verse Romans 5:8 hits the nail on the proverbial head.

Jesus died for people when they where still sinners. If that is not love for sinners I don't know what is.

You are looking at this verse out of context. Remember John 3:18?

We are all born sinners (the original sin, you must have heard of that), so yes, when we are born, we all deserve to go to Hell. That's how God made us. However, He created a narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14) for a very small group of people to escape eternal damnation. God can do everything, so if He wanted, He could make Salvation easier. But, He didn't.

The verse
Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

does not mean God chose people who will be saved. Although I know a lot of people that think that. ANYONE can be saved. RACE, GENDER, AGE ect. do NOT MATTER.

Wrong. Jesus discriminates based on national origin:

Matthew 15:22-26
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

And here:

Deuteronomy 20:16-18
16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

It is God's gift to the people He made.

It's a gift to some people. Now, how He selects the small group of those who will go to Heaven from the billions of people who are destined for eternal damnation, that I do not know.

Half these verses you said apply to believers do not. Romans 5:8 - God loved us enough while we where sinners to die for us.
1 John 4:10 - We did not lover God when He died for us, but He still loved us.

You again took all these verses out of context.

You are the cherry picker who is forgetting about John 3:18 again. And again. And again.

[BaptistBethany]

Re: Greetings

If by in context you mean: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18.... that just means that only saved people will go to heaven, It does not mean he loves us anymore. In fact, I believe that if anything, and unsaved Jew is more precious to Jesus then anyone of the saved Americans. Correct me if I am wrong, but I always have been taught (even through Collage) that Jesus loves us all equally.

Did they teach you how to spell in College?

[Dr. Creation]

Re: Greetings

Doc, you admitted to ignorance of the Bible. Then, twelve minutes later you provided verses from 5 different books which you seem to think support your pothead philosophy. Tell us, did you use those twelve minutes to read the KJV 1611? Or, did you joogle some keywords and copy paste some random internet poo on these Godly forums?

Since you continue to have context issues, I will give you some helpful study guides:

Who wrote Romans?
To whom was he writing?
When did he write it?
What did he mean by "us"?

I find all of your posts very offending. I NEVER admitted having ignorance of the Bible. I said I MAY lack knowledge, but every time I look up your verses, I get a whole different thing than you get. - Meaning that I don't think I do but you obviously do. Do not misquote me. I don't know what the big deal is about using KJV 1611, I use strait KJV. I don't use your version of the Bible. The verses I posted where ones I thought of off the top of my head. That is why I said I would post more later when I have time to study this topic. I was given the "award" cherry picker by the very ones I accuse of taking God's Holy word out of context. If this is truly a friendly forum, stop insulting me. The verse Romans 5:8 explains that WHEN WE WHERE STILL SINNERS CHRIST DIED FOR US!!!! <---------- GET IT YET?!?!

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Paraphrase: He that believeth on him is not condemned... (condemned to what? Eternal hell) ...he that believeth not is condemned already...(Condemned to what? ETERNAL HELL!!!)

@BaptistBethany I find your post very insulting. I already acknowledged my mistake. And explained the reason for the error. Plus, for all I know, it could have been a typo. I was really sleepy when I posted that.

[gregincambodia]

Re: Greetings

. But what I mean is God loves sinners. What I do not mean: God loves people who have rejected Him. If that clears anything up.

You are so close to understanding this Doc. Please, stop cherry picking verses from books that you aren't familiar with and just consider this statement that you made. Seriously, take a few deep breaths and let it sink in.

Now consider John 14:15

To love God is to obey his commands. To sin is to reject God. You are trying to separate sinners into two groups: sinners that reject God, and "sinners who do not reject God" Do you see your error now?

[Dr. Creation]

Re: Greetings

You are so close to understanding this Doc. Please, stop cherry picking verses from books that you aren't familiar with and just consider this statement that you made. Seriously, take a few deep breaths and let it sink in.

Now consider John 14:15

To love God is to obey his commands. To sin is to reject God. You are trying to separate sinners into two groups: sinners that reject God, and "sinners who do not reject God" Do you see your error now?

I have knowledge of these books. Sinners are all the same. They all have rejected God. But GOD STILL LOVES THEM. I don't know what I was thinking when I separated them into 2 groups.

[gregincambodia]

Re: Greetings

I have knowledge of these books. Sinners are all the same. They all have rejected God. But GOD STILL LOVES THEM. I don't know what I was thinking when I separated them into 2 groups.

You do know what God does to sinners don't you? He sends them to to burn for all eternity. Is that what you mean by love?

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings

You do know what God does to sinners don't you? He sends them to to burn for all eternity. Is that what you mean by love?

Exactly. And, this broad category of sinners destined to burn in Hell forever includes:

• those who have heard of Jesus, and for whatever reason made a conscientious decision to reject Him;
• those who lived long peaceful lives, and died without ever hearing about Jesus, and therefore without having the opportunity to accept or reject Him;
• those who were born dead, or died shortly after birth (and therefore could not make a conscientious decision to accept or reject Jesus), including children of God-fearing parents.

However, this broad category of sinners destined to burn in Hell does not include:

• those who lived all their lives killing and abusing people, but repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness at the moment of their death.

[Dr. Creation]

Re: Greetings

Exactly. And, this broad category of sinners destined to burn in Hell forever includes:

• those who have heard of Jesus, and for whatever reason made a conscientious decision to reject Him;
• those who lived long peaceful lives, and died without ever hearing about Jesus, and therefore without having the opportunity to accept or reject Him;
• those who were born dead, or died shortly after birth (and therefore could not make a conscientious decision to accept or reject Jesus), including children of God-fearing parents.

However, this broad category of sinners destined to burn in Hell does not include:

• those who lived all their lives killing and abusing people, but repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness at the moment of their death.

Exactly! All except that God hates sinners. If He hated sinners, then NO ONE would be saved. Why would He die for people He hates? BTW
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God does not want anyone to suffer in hell. That is why He gave us (the sinners, see Romans 3:23) a way out.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Greetings

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This says nothing about God's emotional response towards sinners, dear. It says He is patient and doesn't want anyone to perish. Doesn't stop them, you'll note. He just doesn't want it that way.

I don't want any bums dying in my hydrangea bushes either, but that doesn't mean I love 'em.