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  • Jesus was not crucified?

    An evangelical scholar is claiming that Jesus was not put on a cross. Apparently the Gospels never say He was hung on a cross according to Gunnar Samuelsson

    Amazing that one of the core beliefs of Christianity is being questioned so many years later. I find myself torn between following every fad in Christianity that flares up to be avant garde and following tradition.

    There have been plenty of attacks on Christianity over the years, but few claims have been more surprising than one advanced by an obscure Swedish scholar this spring.

    The Gospels do not say Jesus was crucified, Gunnar Samuelsson says.

    In fact, he argues, in the original Greek, the ancient texts reveal only that Jesus carried "some kind of torture or execution device" to a hill where "he was suspended" and died, says Samuelsson, who is an evangelical pastor as well as a New Testament scholar.


    "When we say crucifixion, we think about Mel Gibson's 'Passion.' We think about a church, nails, the crown of thorns," he says, referring to Gibson's 2004 film, "The Passion of the Christ."

    "We are loaded with pictures of this well-defined punishment called crucifixion - and that is the problem," he says.

    Samuelsson bases his claim on studying 900 years' worth of ancient texts in the original languages - Hebrew, Latin and Greek, which is the language of the New Testament.

    He spent three years reading for 12 hours a day, he says, and he noticed that the critical word normally translated as "crucify" doesn't necessarily mean that.

    "He was handed over to be 'stauroun,'" Samuelsson says of Jesus, lapsing into Biblical Greek to make his point.

    At the time the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were writing their Gospels, that word simply meant "suspended," the theologian argues.

    "This word is used in a much wider sense than 'crucifixion,'" he says. "It refers to hanging, to suspending vines in a vineyard," or to any type of suspension.

    "He was required to carry his 'stauros' to Calvary, and they 'stauroun' him. That is all. He carried some kind of torture or execution device to Calvary and he was suspended and he died," Samuelsson says.
    Proverbs 25:21-22 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
    For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.


  • #2
    Re: Jesus was not crucified?

    Originally posted by Samuel Coleridge View Post
    An evangelical scholar is claiming that Jesus was not put on a cross. Apparently the Gospels never say He was hung on a cross according to Gunnar Samuelsson

    Amazing that one of the core beliefs of Christianity is being questioned so many years later. I find myself torn between following every fad in Christianity that flares up to be avant garde and following tradition.

    Webster's Dictionary defines the word "crucify" as follows:

    Main Entry: cru·ci·fy
    Pronunciation: \ˈkrü-sə-ˌfī\
    Function: transitive verb
    1 : to put to death by nailing or binding the wrists or hands and feet to a cross

    Now the scriptures say...

    Matthew 27:31,35 "31And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him....35And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet..."

    Mark 15:24-25 "And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take. And it was the third hour, and they crucified him."

    Luke 23:33 "And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left."

    John 19:16-18 "Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst."


    And as a side note:

    Luke 23:50-53 "And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid."

    Obviously, if he took the body down, it must have been up on something, right?
    2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:

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    • #3
      Re: Jesus was not crucified?

      Was this person reading the KJV?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jesus was not crucified?

        Originally posted by Justin Z View Post
        Was this person reading the KJV?
        Obviously not.
        2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jesus was not crucified?

          Originally posted by Sister Pamela View Post
          Obviously not.
          I believe the question was within the actual Greek itself. The Romans at the time didn't always nail their prisoners to perfect crosses.

          I'm thinking this is likely true. The cross symbol is much more ancient than the Christian church.

          Count me as being officially on the bandwagon.
          Proverbs 25:21-22 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
          For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jesus was not crucified?

            Originally posted by Justin Z View Post
            Was this person reading the KJV?
            No JustinZ, that liebral "reads" the NIV and as such, is a cotton-candy/girly cry-baby "Christian" *cough*.

            Pay no mind to what he says at all.

            The Gospels were originally written in Aramaic for the most part, so it doesn't matter what the Greek translation says.

            YIC,

            Mrs.P.Wintersnow




            There's Jesus here,
            Just see what He offers me....
            Down here my sins forgiven,
            Up there a home in heaven
            Praise God, That's the way for me!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Jesus was not crucified?

              Is there no limit to the folly of these liberal scholars?


              Jesus was not crucified.

              Jesus did not walk on water.

              Jesus did not raise Lazarus.

              Jesus did not put the demons into the swine and run them off a cliff.

              Jesus did not wither the barren fig tree.




              Pretty soon, these false Christians are going to have a Jesus that did not do anything!! Simply outrageous!
              Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unGodly among them of all their unGodly deeds which they have unGodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which unGodly sinners have spoken against him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jesus was not crucified?

                the ancient texts reveal only that Jesus carried "some kind of torture or execution device" to a hill where "he was suspended" and died
                Hmmmm.....

                Now what torture did the Romans popularize by having it outside of every city that the prisoner carried the beam to and was then hoisted up and suspended?

                Oh right , crucifixion.

                It's in all those history books that you think are so important.
                Drama queen

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jesus was not crucified?

                  This ludicrous claim by a denizen of the Godless Kingdom of Sweden (which God hates) comes as no surprise. The world conspiracy of atheists constantly put out propaganda in the belief that the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to be believed. The cry of the Socialist Ministry of Truth if ever I heard it.

                  You may think that such lies and travesties are uncommon, but no – look at the following. Taken from National Geographic, much loved as pre-school porn for its pictures of half-naked jigaboos by the children of atheists and masturbating Catholics:

                  National Geographic stories take you on a journey that’s always enlightening, often surprising, and unfailingly fascinating.


                  The importance of Bethlehem to Christianity came to the forefront in the fourth century. Constantine, the first Roman emperor to declare Christianity as the official religion of the empire, sent his mother, Helena, to the Holy Land to find and document sites important to Christianity. Helena believed she had found the spot where Jesus was born in Bethlehem and asked her son to build the Church of the Nativity. With Helena’s encouragement and Constantine’s money supporting them, pilgrims began making the trek to the Holy Lands. Since then, Bethlehem continues to attract pilgrims to Jesus’ birthplace.

                  The “little town of Bethlehem” may not actually be where Jesus was born. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke were written at least 50 years after Jesus’ death, and some religious scholars believe the writers set their stories in Bethlehem of Judaea to associate Jesus with the House of David. This was to reinforce Jesus’ status as the Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures in order to attract early Jewish converts to Christianity.

                  Many archaeologists and theological scholars believe Jesus was actually born in either Nazareth or Bethlehem of Galilee, a town just outside Nazareth, citing biblical references and archaeological evidence to support their conclusion. Throughout the Bible, Jesus is referred to as “Jesus of Nazareth,” not “Jesus of Bethlehem.” In fact, in John (7:41- 43) there is a passage questioning Jesus’ legitimacy because he’s from Galilee and not Judaea, as the Hebrew Scriptures say the Messiah must be. Archaeological excavations have shown that Bethlehem in Judaea likely did not exist as a functioning town between 7 and 4 B.C., when Jesus is believed to have been born. Studies of the town have turned up a great deal of Iron Age material from 1200 to 550 B.C. as well as material from the sixth century A.D., but nothing from the first century B.C. or the first century A.D. Aviram Oshri, a senior archaeologist with the Israeli Antiquities Authority, says, “There is surprisingly no archaeological evidence that ties Bethlehem in Judaea to the period in which Jesus would have been born.

                  “If the historical Jesus were truly born in Bethlehem,” Oshri adds, “it was most likely the Bethlehem of Galilee, not that in Judaea. The archaeological evidence certainly seems to favor the former, a busy center [of Jewish life] a few miles from the home of Joseph and Mary, as opposed to an unpopulated spot almost a hundred miles from home.” In this Bethlehem, Oshri and his team have uncovered the remains of a later monastery and the largest Byzantine church in Israel, which raises the question of why such a huge house of Christian worship was built in the heart of a Jewish area. The Israeli archaeologist believes that it’s because early Christians revered Bethlehem of Galilee as the birthplace of Jesus. “There is no doubt in my mind that these are impressive and important evidence of a strong Christian community established in Bethlehem [of Galilee] a short time after Jesus’ death,” he says. Oshri, however, doubts that Bethlehem of Galilee will be recognized as the birthplace of Jesus any time soon. “Business interests are too important,” he says. “After all this time, the churches do not have a strong interest in changing the Nativity story.”
                  If I may comment on this last bit – When God’s Truth is known, altering anything is a sin!
                  sigpic


                  “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                  Author of such illuminating essays as,
                  Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

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