[James Hutchins]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Hello Everyone!

A friend directed me to this forum because he found it very interesting. I also find it very interesting, so I'd like to attempt to answer some questions.

Yes, light has properties.

It's speed is 186,000 miles per second.
It is massless, this is why when it hits you it doesn't knock you down.

Also, I read earlier someone said something to the extent of:

"You're telling me scientists are telling me that I can't see off into the horizon for more than 20 miles, then they say I can see something that's several millions of light years away?"

This is easily explained, most of the sources of light here on earth aren't very powerful. A flashlight for instance, yes it produces light, however it's not a very powerful source of light. The Sun on the other hand, is an extremely powerful source of light. The more powerful the source of the light is, the further away you can be from it and still see it. As you get farther away from light, it becomes dimmer. It's important to note that all light sources, keyword: sources, are not equal.

I'll happily wait for a response.

I am speechless. AnAuthenticAtheist! I guess that means all the other trolls, I mean atheists we have had were impostors?

So light is massless? It contans no matter? Interesting What is light?

According to you, only really really powerful light can travel millions and millions of light years? So the light from my flashlight runs out of steam and simply falls on the ground?

[Wilbur J. Carpenter]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Wilbur, GPS actually prove the earth is flat. I have written much about this in another thread dealing with the flat earth.

Sister, I beg you not to trust GPS devices. You know not the evil inherent within these tool's of the devil.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

"So light is massless? It contans no matter? Interesting What is light?"

Correct, visible light is a form of electromagnetic radiation.

"According to you, only really really powerful light can travel millions and millions of light years?"

Correct! You are on a roll!

"So the light from my flashlight runs out of steam and simply falls on the ground?"

I like the way you put this one, it doesn't "simply fall on the ground" though.

Since light does not have mass, it has energy. The energy simply dissipates or runs out, and then it is gone.

Think of it as gas in your vehicle, the gas is energy for your car, eventually you will run out. The gas didn't just simply fall on the ground though, it changed forms. It is ignited, which moves a piston and is turned into mechanical energy.

This is what light does, as it hits obstacles such as spacedust or anything else with matter, it changes forms. It can change into heat or other types of energy such as mechanical energy.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Really...

Could you please explain to me what a photon is?

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

"Really...

Could you please explain to me what a photon is?"

Sure, think of it as a little packet of energy that gives off radiation in the form of visible light.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Then please explain to me why these little massless packets of energy can supposedly be trapped by the mass of a black hole. If they have no mass then surely the gravity wouldn't be affecting them.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Ahhhhhhhhh very good question! I'm so excited to answer this one.

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

One of the ways Einstein's theory of general relativity was verified was by what is called "gravitational lensing".

When light travels near an object, such as a planet or black hole, with a huge gravitational pull, the path of the light is bent towards the object. The object will pull the photon away from it's normal path and towards the object, thus resulting in a curved path.

Black holes have an incredible gravitational force coming from them. Meaning, they bend space a large amount, and since all objects/matter/energy travel through the fabric of space they are subject to gravity.

If a photon gets too close to a black hole, the gravity of the black hole will start pulling it closer. Think of the black hole as an infinitely deep funnel. The photon will get pulled into the black hole by it's gravitational field and begin it's spiral into the black hole.

Gravity effects everything.

Are you familiar with the experiment where you lay different sized balls on a bed sheet and their masses curve the sheet? The sheet is the fabric of space, and since all objects travel through space, whether they have mass or not, they are subject to travel with the "terrain" of space.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Then please explain to me why these little massless packets of energy can supposedly be trapped by the mass of a black hole. If they have no mass then surely the gravity wouldn't be affecting them.

The last number I saw was that a photon, if it has any mass at all, must be less than 4 x 10^-48 grams. For comparison, the electron has a mass of 9 x 10^-28 grams. It isn't proven they have no mass...just that the mass they have if any must be a certain number. Under relativity though stars bend the surrounding space time which curves light and in a black hole it curves it to the point of collapsing into the black hole. This mean either relativity is right or a photon has the mass less than 4 x 10^-48 grams. Indeed science can't answer everything YET but in the last 50-60 years we have accomplished so much. Moving forward with humanity is great isn't it?

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

If this were true nothing could be lighter than air and I have personally seen hot air and helium balloons rise, completely unrestrained by "gravity".

Try again.

One of the ways Einstein's theory of general relativity was verified was by what is called "gravitational lensing".

When light travels near an object, such as a planet or black hole, with a huge gravitational pull, the path of the light is bent towards the object. The object will pull the photon away from it's normal path and towards the object, thus resulting in a curved path.

Black holes have an incredible gravitational force coming from them. Meaning, they bend space a large amount, and since all objects/matter/energy travel through the fabric of space they are subject to gravity.

If a photon gets too close to a black hole, the gravity of the black hole will start pulling it closer. Think of the black hole as an infinitely deep funnel. The photon will get pulled into the black hole by it's gravitational field and begin it's spiral into the black hole.

Gravity effects everything.

Are you familiar with the experiment where you lay different sized balls on a bed sheet and their masses curve the sheet? The sheet is the fabric of space, and since all objects travel through space, whether they have mass or not, they are subject to travel with the "terrain" of space.

Sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of these "photons"?

[James Hutchins]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

"So light is massless? It contans no matter? Interesting What is light?"

Correct, visible light is a form of electromagnetic radiation.

I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'.

"According to you, only really really powerful light can travel millions and millions of light years?" Correct! You are on a roll!

"So the light from my flashlight runs out of steam and simply falls on the ground?"

I like the way you put this one, it doesn't "simply fall on the ground" though.

Since light does not have mass, it has energy. The energy simply dissipates or runs out, and then it is gone.
Think of it as gas in your vehicle, the gas is energy for your car, eventually you will run out. The gas didn't just simply fall on the ground though, it changed forms. It is ignited, which moves a piston and is turned into mechanical energy.

This is what light does, as it hits obstacles such as spacedust or anything else with matter, it changes forms. It can change into heat or other types of energy such as mechanical energy.

So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

If this were true nothing could be lighter than air and I have personally seen hot air and helium balloons rise, completely unrestrained by "gravity".

Try again.



Sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of these "photons"?

The balloon is affected by gravity it's just less dense than the atmosphere which makes it float the same way wood floats on water.

Religion sounds like conjecture and wishful thinking. Do you have any pictures of this "God" or "Heaven"?

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

Gravity effects EVERYTHING, not just things with mass, but everything.

So it also affects things that have no weight like electromagnetic fields? Weird, as not even atheists scientists seem to think that.

The last number I saw was that a photon, if it has any mass at all, must be less than 4 x 10^-48 grams.

And how does one determine that? I cannot imagine a weighing scale being that accurate.

[Ninjaseverywhere]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'.

So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting.

Stars light doesn't go forever or else eventually every star in the universe would be visible to us. Only stars close enough for their light to reach us will ever be seen much like if I shine a flashlight it is strong enough for you to see from a few yards away but it becomes invisible at greater distances. Same with stars only their light is stronger therefore visible from farther away from a flashlight.

[AnAuthenticAtheist]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

"I guss the part that confuses me (I am just a simple country boy after all) is if light is pure energy, then how can photons 'push' things. I have a few childs toys at the Hutchins home, a 'Radiometer'."

Photons still have momentum, when a photon strikes a surface, it may be absorbed or reflected. In either case, momentum is transferred from the photon to the object whose surface is struck. In this way, a force is exerted on the struck object.

The equation for the momentum of a photon is p= E/c, where c is the speed of light, p is the momentum, and E the energy of the photon.

The equation for the momentum of a particle with mass is p=mv, where p is momentum, m is mass, and v is the velocity of the particle.


"So only the light from flashlights dissapate, the light from stars, which are merely little diamonds in the sky, reflecting sunlinght, can last forever. Interesting"

Close, the light from the stars does not last forever. The light they emit is just brighter at the source and thus will travel farther before it dissipates.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: How can we see stars if they are "millions of light years" aw

The equation for the momentum of a photon is p= E/c, where c is the speed of light, p is the momentum, and E the energy of the photon.

Don't talk nonsense. Every little child knows the momentum of a photon depends only on its frequency. p = ħk where k is the wave vector (where the wave number k = |k| = 2π/λ) and ħ = h/2π is the reduced Planck constant.