[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Religion ABOUT Christ, WITHOUT Christ.

If God wanted us to follow a strict set of rules, He wouldn't have given us free will now, would he?

I would say God giving a strict set of rules and saying "Follow these" means that's what He wants.

Do you recall what happened to Adam and Eve?

The fact we have free will also means He wants us to use our reason?

Please cite the Scripture to support this position.

The Bible was put together by a bunch of bishops at the Council of Laodicea in 365. Some of it is God-inspired, and some of it most definitely isn't.

Really? So then you believe God allowed His Word to be corrupted so people can be misled, right?

Why do you hate God and think Him an evil monster who wants to cast people into eternal torment?

[Christian_Rover (aka Danny the queer)]

Christian Rover's own special thread

I have freely admitted elsewhere that I use my God-given reason and common sense to select those parts of Scripture which are most useful for today's Christian. There are parts I am ambivalent towards, and others which I think are thoroughly contrary to the spirit of Christianity.

It intrigues me that some of the posters here claim that they do not engage in such cherry-picking, and that they are somehow superior to other churches because they claim to follow the whole Bible. It is my contention that this is untrue.

Here are some things the Bible says which I would be willing to bet the parishioners at Landover do not follow:

1. Putting children to death if they curse their father or mother (Lev 20, 9).

2. Buying slaves (Lev 25, 44-45)

3. Cutting the sides of your hair or clipping your beard (Lev 19, 37)

4. Refraining from eating pork (Leviticus 11: 7)

5. Refraining from wearing cloths of two kinds of material (Leviticus 19:19)

6. Refraining from eating shrimp or lobster (Lev 11:11)

7. Refraining from lending money at interest (Psalms 15:5)

8. Selling your possessions and give the proceeds to the poor (Matthew 19:21-22)

9. Stoning disobedient son to death (Deuteronomy-21:18-21).

10. Killing (inter alia) witches, mediums and fortune-tellers (Lev 20)

[ManyPaths]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

I agree that we're supposed to just follow the parts that we agree with and ignore the parts we don't like. God is within us all and we are all god. So since god is within me, whatever I believe in is what god wants me to believe in. It doesn't really matter what you believe just as long as you believe in SOMETHING.

I have heard them say they don't eat shrimp or wear polyesther blends but I dunno about the rest.

So where do you go to church in England? Do they have Universalist Unitarian churchest there? That's where I go and the preacher is cool with us pretty much believing whatever we want. Its almost like you just get to make up you're own religion LOL. And its totally okay to be gay at my church and youd be welcome.

[Lisa H]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

You are a poor excuse for a Christian. The Lord wanted you to follow his Word.

Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

I have freely admitted elsewhere that I use my God-given reason and common sense to select those parts of Scripture which are most useful for today's Christian. There are parts I am ambivalent towards, and others which I think are thoroughly contrary to the spirit of Christianity.

It intrigues me that some of the posters here claim that they do not engage in such cherry-picking, and that they are somehow superior to other churches because they claim to follow the whole Bible. It is my contention that this is untrue.

Here are some things the Bible says which I would be willing to bet the parishioners at Landover do not follow:

Okay, I've grouped them according to types of laws.

1. Putting children to death if they curse their father or mother (Lev 20, 9).

2. Buying slaves (Lev 25, 44-45)

9. Stoning disobedient son to death (Deuteronomy-21:18-21).

10. Killing (inter alia) witches, mediums and fortune-tellers (Lev 20)

We would love to do this. However secular law tells us that it is illegal and the Bible speaks very clearly that we must follow secular law.

Romans 13:2-6 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1st Peter 2:13-15 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

So what needs to happen is we need to get Godly politicians in that will bring the constitution into line with the Bible. Until then we must be content with our annual stonefest.

4. Refraining from eating pork (Leviticus 11: 7)

6. Refraining from eating shrimp or lobster (Lev 11:11)

Although I personally don't eat any shellfish, and pork only if I am offered (I don't buy it). The law was revoked in Acts.

Acts 10 9 † On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 †
This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

3. Cutting the sides of your hair or clipping your beard (Lev 19, 37)

Actually it say's "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard." I don't know of any of the men here who round the corners of their heads, nor do they mar their beards.

5. Refraining from wearing cloths of two kinds of material (Leviticus 19:19)

7. Refraining from lending money at interest (Psalms 15:5)

I do neither of these, neither does anyone I know of.

8. Selling your possessions and give the proceeds to the poor (Matthew 19:21-22)

You misunderstand that passage, it was a test for that one man. He failed, he loved his money more than he loved Jesus. We personally were tithing at the 18% legal limit in Canada, and need to sit down with a church accountant to discuss it here. I believe some of the brothers have stated it's 30% in the US? I don't know for sure as my husband handles that part of the finances.

[TravisDK]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

I agree that we're supposed to just follow the parts that we agree with and ignore the parts we don't like.

Do you do that with secular laws as well?

God is within us all and we are all god.

What kind of rubbish is that? There is only one true God

Jeremiah 10:10
But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

So since god is within me, whatever I believe in is what god wants me to believe in. It doesn't really matter what you believe just as long as you believe in SOMETHING.

So using your logic it would be perfectly alright to belive in the devil himself?

That's where I go and the preacher is cool with us pretty much believing whatever we want. Its almost like you just get to make up you're own religion LOL. And its totally okay to be gay at my church and youd be welcome.

All homersexuals WILL burn in hell for all eternity, surely you would know that if you had ever bothered to read The Bible.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[Disciple Luke]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

We must follow God's word without question. However we must also follow the law of the land. In Australia, because it is such an ungodly country, we firstly follow the law of the land and pray that God will reclaim the country as His own so that we can then follow all of the bible as he desires us to.

Peter 2:13-14 (King James Version)
13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

[Christian_Rover (aka Danny the queer)]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

It is always interesting when arch-fundies invoke 1 Corinthians 10:23 as a get out clause for disapplying the parts of the law they don't like. The verse raises two very important questions:

1. If "everything" is indeed permissible, then is homosexuality.

2. The scripture contradicts Christ's own statement in Matt 5:18 where he says that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth passed away. Last time I checked that hasn't happened yet. Are you folks calling Christ a liar?

[Christian_Rover (aka Danny the queer)]

Scripture Challenge

I hereby challenge all the fundies here to show me where in the Bible the Lord condemns a loving homosexual relationship between two consenting adults????

[Lisa H]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

It is always interesting when arch-fundies invoke 1 Corinthians 10:23 as a get out clause for disapplying the parts of the law they don't like. The verse raises two very important questions:

1. If "everything" is indeed permissible, then is homosexuality.

2. The scripture contradicts Christ's own statement in Matt 5:18 where he says that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth passed away. Last time I checked that hasn't happened yet. Are you folks calling Christ a liar?

Stop denying the Lord told you not be a homersexual. The Lord clearly told you.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them

What you quoted has nothing to do with being a flaming homersexual

1 Corinthians 10
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

[Lisa H]

Re: Scripture Challenge

I hereby challenge all the fundies here to show me where in the Bible the Lord condemns a loving homosexual relationship between two consenting adults????

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them

Happy now! Stop promoting you flaming homer lifestyle. This is not a homer dating site.

[Sister Charli]

Re: Scripture Challenge

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them

So .... now that Sister Lisa has accepted your "challenge" and produced the evidence as requested .... what are you going to do?

Clearly your have TWO choices ...
1) continue with your abominable lifestyle and burn in hell OR
2) turn your life over to Jesus and become a True Christian™ and denounce your disgusting perverse behaviours.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Cherry-picking Scripture

2. The scripture contradicts Christ's own statement in Matt 5:18 where he says that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until heaven and earth passed away. Last time I checked that hasn't happened yet. Are you folks calling Christ a liar?

No, you are, by twisting Scripture to make it sound internally contradictory. It it were, then it could not be God's Word, in which case God would have reneged on His promise to preserve His Word. Since that would make both God and the Bible untrustworthy, how would you know what to believe? Oh, I remember now: Those parts of the Bible that back up what you want to believe are God's preserved Word.

[Christian_Rover (aka Danny the queer)]

Re: Scripture Challenge

Oh dear! Someone is reading this scripture way out of context!!

The better translation (by National Gay Pentecostal Alliance) interprets this passage as:

"And a man who will lie down with a male in beds of a woman, both of them have made an abomination; dying they will die. Their blood is on them."

So it is not an outright prohibition on gay sex. It just places a limit on it - and says it shouldn't be done on the marital bed.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Scripture Challenge

The better translation (by National Gay Pentecostal Alliance)

Wow, beg the question much? Would you care to explain how that's the better translation? Also, how do you explain away the New Testament passages that have been quoted to you, which surely not even you can reinterpret as being limited to women's beds?