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Old 01-23-2012, 11:07 PM
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Default How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Brethren and Sistren

I am sure you are all aware of the alleged contradiction concerning Our Savior's triumphal entry into Jerusalem. According to St. Mark and St. Luke, Jesus told his disciples to fetch "a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat". On the other hand St. Matthew SEEMINGLY contradicts the other evangelists by having the disciples fetch two animals:
Matthew 21:2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Matthew 21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
Matthew 21:4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
Matthew 21:6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
Matthew 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
I know many skeptics find this uproariously funny - picturing Jesus being mounted on two animals like some rodeo clown, so let me hasten to quote the wise words of the renowned apologist James Patrick Holding:
The question may be varied to say, was Jesus riding them in alteration, or (if the Skeptic has a sense of humor) on both at once -- maybe one on top of the other?

Not really -- this is just an amusing grammatical ambiguity; the "them" on which Jesus sat could refer back to the clothes, not the animals.
That's obviously true. Just because the disciples bring two donkeys along doesn't mean Jesus has to mount them both. But what about the alleged contradiction? Did the disciples fetch one or two animals? Again Mr. Holding has a clear answer:
Matthew's variation from the other Gospels on this point raises two questions -- was there one donkey or two, and did Jesus ride one or two?

Strictly speaking, one could point out for the first question that there is no technical, logical contradiction, since the other Gospels do not say there was only the colt there -- they merely don't bother mentioning the mother. Yet her presence is likely in this context, even if it is not mentioned. Keener [Matthew commentary, 491] notes that an unbroken colt "might require the mother's presence to keep it calm amid shouting crowds" -- we know well enough from American rodeos what chaos an unbroken animal might cause.

(Emphasized for truth)
In your heart you know, he is right. St. Mark and St. Luke don't say that there wasn't two donkeys, and why should they bother?

But I think Mr. Holding misses the full implication of what he writes: Why stop at two donkeys? If we turn our gaze onto St. John, we'll see that Jesus didn't wait for the disciples to return with the donkeys. Instead He found another one himself:

John 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
John 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
The answer should be obvious now: There were three donkeys. St. John didn't bother to mention the two donkeys brought by the disciples; St. Matthew didn't bother to mention the donkey that Jesus Himself had found; and St. Mark and St. Luke didn't bother to mention the donkey that Jesus found and the mother donkey.

I hope this shows beyond all reasonable doubt once again that there are no contradictions in the Bible.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Why is the concept of riding two horses once considered absurd? This is quite traditional way to show ones skill in horsemanship.

The picture below is EXACETLY the way I picture Jesus riding into Jerusalem; full gallop, His hair and robes billowing in the wind, galloping into the Holy City to tell the High Priest how it is while the crowd goes wild with cheers. It's the skeptics who want to neuter our Triumphant Christ and turn Him into some stoned hippie ridding into town smoking weed and saying "peace bros".

Put it this way, do you think GW Bush or Newt Grinrich worship a hippie on a mule? (doubtlessly Romney thinks donkey is a code word for flying saucer)
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

There is a lot of good food for thought here, brothers, and regardless of which position we take, as believers we are compelled to accept that Jesus' Holy Word known as the Bible cannot be contradictory.

So what say I? My position has always been that Jesus rode a little of the way on one mule and then stopped and got off, mounting the other right as he was entering the city. That way, Jesus is technically entering Jerusalem on both.

And later, as stated in John, Jesus jumped off of the second and climbed onto a third one he found (probably in an effort to make his presence yet more noticeable).

Pastor Ed
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

When Jesus arrived in Jerusalem the first thing he did was go into the temple. However Matthew says that He cast out the people selling in the temple and the money lenders. Mark does not mention this.

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

Mark 11:11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.

I wonder if Jesus came in straddling the colt and the donkey then went to the temple and overturned the tables, then left Jerusalem, then came back into Jerusalem again riding John's colt, then went back into the temple and just had a look around this time?

YIC

Jack
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
Why is the concept of riding two horses once considered absurd? This is quite traditional way to show ones skill in horsemanship.

The picture below is EXACETLY the way I picture Jesus riding into Jerusalem; full gallop, His hair and robes billowing in the wind, galloping into the Holy City to tell the High Priest how it is while the crowd goes wild with cheers. It's the skeptics who want to neuter our Triumphant Christ and turn Him into some stoned hippie ridding into town smoking weed and saying "peace bros".

Put it this way, do you think GW Bush or Newt Grinrich worship a hippie on a mule? (doubtlessly Romney thinks donkey is a code word for flying saucer)
That's a glorious image, Brother Bobby-Joe.

I reckon that's precisely how it will look, when the Lord returns one fine day on a white horse clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

I certainly commend Pastor Enoe for bringing this to our attention. Lord knows the atheists would wet their panties if they think they may have found some alleged puny "contradiction" in the Bible (KJV1611), and then through faulty logic claim the whole Bible (KJV1611) was a work of fiction.

There are plenty of examples of logistics in the Bible (KJV1611). Take for example Exodus – getting that many people out of Egypt posed numerous problems, yet we have examples of miracle springs for water and the Israelites themselves probably dug latrines. These details are miniscule compared to the grand story of God. Jesus' handlers at the time probably felt it necessary to have some backup donkeys in case something went awry and thus disrupt Jesus' grand entry into Jerusalem. Mel Gibson probably had one or more spare donkeys on his movie set (and maybe even a stunt Jesus for the more complicated scenes).
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Rune Enoe View Post
That's a glorious image, Brother Bobby-Joe.

I reckon that's precisely how it will look, when the Lord returns one fine day on a white horse clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
PRAISE Brother!

This time it will be Jesus ridding up Pennsylvania Avenue to deal with any community activist who trying to steal His place at the head of the world.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Jesus is a republican just like any of us, so outside bible common sense would say that for Him more donkeys is better than one donkey.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ed Lowman View Post
There is a lot of good food for thought here, brothers, and regardless of which position we take, as believers we are compelled to accept that Jesus' Holy Word known as the Bible cannot be contradictory.

So what say I? My position has always been that Jesus rode a little of the way on one mule and then stopped and got off, mounting the other right as he was entering the city. That way, Jesus is technically entering Jerusalem on both.

And later, as stated in John, Jesus jumped off of the second and climbed onto a third one he found (probably in an effort to make his presence yet more noticeable).

Pastor Ed
Yes, obviously there would have to be three donkeys. This is the only explanation that removes all contradiction, and we all know that a book with contradictions cannot be God's Book.

I whipped up this modest depiction of the Lord's triumphal entry. What a sight that must have been to behold. GLORY!
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I must contact Dr. James Patrick Holding immediately to make certain that the learned man realizes the full implications of his brilliant thesis.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Rune Enoe View Post
Brethren and Sistren

I am sure you are all aware of the alleged contradiction concerning Our Savior's triumphal entry into Jerusalem. According to St. Mark and St. Luke, Jesus told his disciples to fetch "a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat". On the other hand St. Matthew SEEMINGLY contradicts the other evangelists by having the disciples fetch two animals:
Matthew 21:2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Matthew 21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
Matthew 21:4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
Matthew 21:6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
Matthew 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

I know many skeptics find this uproariously funny - picturing Jesus being mounted on two animals like some rodeo clown, so let me hasten to quote the wise words of the renowned apologist James Patrick Holding:
Holding is a clown. I suspect he drinks too much.

Consider the sentence:

“The child reads their Bible”, here we see the possessive pronoun, “their which is used to indicate his/her as we do not know if the child is a boy child or the other sort.

Jesus says, “ Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.”

In Jesus’s day, asses, colts, donkeys, horses, etc. were as common as automobiles are today; Jesus was thus specifying a particular ass that was next to a colt.

Now although Jesus knew whether the ass were male or female, He used “them” to pretend that He did not.

Why would he do this? Well, He didn’t want to distract the Disciples by showing supernatural knowledge – He just wanted an ass.

Once committed to this Holy Grammatical Structure, it is difficult to let it go, and so He, in His Wisdom, uses it throughout.

Now we have solved that one, here is the next:

Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Consider the sentence, “Here is the Holy Grail that is finely wrought and is of gold.” This sentence means, “Here is the Holy Grail that is finely wrought and here is the Holy Grail that is of gold.”

But how many Holy Grails are there? One!

So when we see, “…and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.” It simply means that Jesus is sitting upon an ass, which is a colt which is the foal of an ass.”
Quote:
But I think Mr. Holding misses the full implication [Edit EB: I’d put that down to the whiskey.] of what he writes: Why stop at two donkeys? If we turn our gaze onto St. John, we'll see that Jesus didn't wait for the disciples to return with the donkeys. Instead He found another one himself:

John 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
John 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

The answer should be obvious now: There were three donkeys.
I think it is important to point out that the bit in the Bible where it says that Jesus will actually Himself find an ass refers to a part that is still hidden from us, but is still in existence. (It is probably on an ancient scroll that is held by some Joo to hide the truth of the Messiah from the Kikes)

OK, Jesus sits on His ass, “as it is written” but was it that particular ass that was then ridden? I cannot see that it was!

The scene is Jesus addressing His Disciples:
Jesus: “Go and get me the ass of indeterminate sex that is tied up near a colt.”
[The Disciples go off, leaving Jesus, Who perhaps whiles away His time doing miracles for ants or something. Jesus becomes bored and instantly performs the unrecorded “Miracle of the Suddenly Appearing Ass”. Thus Jesus finds an ass.

Jesus now practises sitting on the ass. He strikes a few poses, He sees how the ass reacts to hundreds of Palm leaves being thrown down, He sees how loudly He has to shout His thanks to His supporters, He practises a few waves to the crowd.

Whilst He is doing this, the scribe, who is there taking notes for the Bible and recording all of this, cannot help himself and, in his enthusiasm and to add verisimilitude to Jesus’s practise ride, shouts, “Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt!”

Then Jesus makes the ass miraculously disappear just before the disciples arrive with the ass of indeterminate sex.
]

There was one donkey/ ass/ colt of an ass/ colt.

Case Closed.

(I would be obliged of Wash O'Hanley would close this threat to prevent malicious comments by atheists and the like.)
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2012, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Rune Enoe View Post
I must contact Dr. James Patrick Holding immediately to make certain that the learned man realizes the full implications of his brilliant thesis.
Good idea. But being direct representatives of Jesus who have taken it upon themselves to defend the Maker of the entire Universe, theologians and apologists can sometimes be stubborn. I do hope he listens to us.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: How many donkeys did Jesus ride on?

I believe Jesus capable of all those things.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

That's all the thinking I need to do

Praise Jesus!
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