Question: The Fall of Satan

[JennyD]

Pastors, I'm confused.

I've been reading my Bible trying to find the story of the fall of Satan. You know, how he rebelled against God, leading an army of angels, and was cast out.

But all the Bible studies I find reference Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as being about Satan, and build everything upon those two chapters.

Isaiah 14 is about the King of Babylon. Ezekiel 28 is about the prince of Tyrus. Why do so many people think they're about Satan? If God wanted Isaiah or Ezekiel to be speaking about Satan, why wouldn't they write "Satan" instead of "king of Babylon" or "prince of Tyrus", both of whom were people living in those prophets' respective times?

This is all very confusing.

[David Goldman]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

Yes, Ezekiel 18 can be a bit ambiguous.

Isaiah 14 mentions Lucifer, which is Satan's angelic name. In verse 4 it mentions that Isaiah is to deliver a parable (proverb) to the king of Babylon. In that parable he compares the king to Satan (Lucifer) and the war in Heaven:

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

And that is followed up in Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan wasn't as overt in the OT. He became much more so after the birth of Christ, however, since that would (and did) fulfill the prophesy of his ultimate destruction found in Genesis 3:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[David Goldman]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

There might be some question as well regarding the terms "Lucifer" and "Satan".

Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is the Hebrew בן־שׁחר" (Helel Ben-Shachar) and literally translates as "morning star". It shows up in the New Testament in Greek as Satanás (Σατανάς ) in Luke 10:18, and again as mentioned earlier in Revelation 12:9.

[JennyD]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

These appear to be references to different people (Satan vs. Lucifer, which as you noted is a Latinized name meaning "morning star").

The speech to be brought to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14) is not a parable, but a proverb. There is no evidence in the text that it is referencing anyone but the King of Babylon, and is merely Isaiah prophesying against this arrogant king; he is predicting the day when the Jews will become the slavemasters instead of the slaves.

Where prior to Isaiah is Lucifer given as a name for Satan? I can't find it.

[David Goldman]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

Where prior to Isaiah is Lucifer given as a name for Satan? I can't find it.

There is no absolute direct link per se, just like the words "Trinity", "Christmas", "Rapture", "Christian Faith", and "Abortion" don't exist in the Bible either. (I bet that surprises some people!)

So the idea is that you take passages like Job 38:7
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
which identifies morning stars as angels, and then cross reference it with Revelation 12:7-9 that identifies an angelic war in (and subsequent exile from) heaven, and then extrapolate it to Isaiah 14:4, 12-14 which talks of morning star(s) being cast from heaven.

Is it possible that Lucifer is not Satan, but another fallen angel in the guise of the King of Babylon? Sure, and in fact New Testament references other powerful fallen angels besides Satan as well. And to add a twist to it, Satan himself is given many different names (Devil, accuser, serpent, dragon, and possibly Lucifer).

All that we know for certain is that both Satan and Lucifer were angels, both were prideful, both rebelled against God, and both were cast out of heaven. Early Christians made the link that they were one and the same, and that seems to have stuck. However, not everyone agrees, and there have been various published treatises by notable theological demonologists that suggest that perhaps this is not the case.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

There is no absolute direct link per se, just like the words "Trinity", "Christmas", "Rapture", "Christian Faith", and "Abortion" don't exist in the Bible either. (I bet that surprises some people!)

Well not to a TRUE Christian™, However we know as FACT® that those words are in The Bible in spirit, much like Satan's rebellion against God. One just needs to look for THE TRUTH™ in scripture and you find it.

This is why it is important we don't try to interpret The Bible.

[JennyD]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

Thank you for your thoughts, David.

Now, perhaps a Pastor can respond?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

There might be some question as well regarding the terms "Lucifer" and "Satan".

Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is the Hebrew בן־שׁחר" (Helel Ben-Shachar) and literally translates as "morning star". It shows up in the New Testament in Greek as Satanás (Σατανάς ) in Luke 10:18, and again as mentioned earlier in Revelation 12:9.

Wait, I thought Jesus was the morning star?

Revelation 22: 16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

David (who is apparently not a joo) has it correct. After much delay caused by poring through The Bible, I have the following that may be of help:

The Prince of Tyrus was indeed a person, but here he is referred to as today we may refer to Hitler. We may say of some obnoxious atheist, “You’re like Hitler aren’t you?” and so with the Prince of Tyrus, who is later spoken of thus,

Eze:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; […]
Eze:28:14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze:28:15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze:28:16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Clearly, this is no man.

In Isaiah 14, verses 4 through 27 are what should be told to The King of Babylon by way of a proverb that he might understand the way of the wicked and of their lord, Lucifer.

For reference:

Satan in the OT
1Ch:21:1: And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
Job:1:6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job:1:7: And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job:1:8: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job:1:9: Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job:1:12: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job:2:1: Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job:2:2: And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job:2:3: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job:2:4: And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job:2:6: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job:2:7: So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Psalms:109:6: Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Zec:3:1: And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec:3:2: And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Satan in the NT
M't:12:26: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
M'r:3:23: And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
M'r:3:26: And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
M'r:4:15: And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Lu:10:18: And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Lu:11:18: If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Lu:13:16: And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Lu:22:3: Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Lu:22:31: And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Joh:13:27: And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Ac:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Ac:26:18: To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Ro:16:20: And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1Co:5:5: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co:7:5: Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2Co:2:11: Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2Co:11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co:12:7: And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1Th:2:18: Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
2Th:2:9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Re:2:13: I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Re:20:7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


The Devil:

OT
Le:17:7: And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
De:32:17: They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
2Ch:11:15: And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.
Psalms:106:37: Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,

NT
M't:4:5: Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
M't:4:8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
M't:4:11: Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
M't:9:33: And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.
M't:25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
M'r:5:18: And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
M'r:7:26: The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
M'r:7:29: And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
M'r:7:30: And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
Lu:4:3: And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Lu:4:6: And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Lu:4:13: And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
Lu:4:35: And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
Lu:8:29: (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
Lu:9:42: And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
Lu:11:14: And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
Joh:10:21: Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
Joh:13:2: And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
1Jo:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Jude:1:9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Re:2:10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Re:12:12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Re:20:10: And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

NB the distinction between ‘devil’ as Satan and as a generic demon. Note also that devils appear in Matthew, Mark, Luke, Corinthians, James and Revelations; these are also generic demons.

Lucifer in OT

Isa:14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lucifer in NT
No mention

[David Goldman]

Re: Question: The Fall of Satan

There might be some question as well regarding the terms "Lucifer" and "Satan".

Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is the Hebrew בן־שׁחר" (Helel Ben-Shachar) and literally translates as "morning star". It shows up in the New Testament in Greek as Satanás (Σατανάς ) in Luke 10:18, and again as mentioned earlier in Revelation 12:9.

Wait, I thought Jesus was the morning star?

Revelation 22: 16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Thank you Pastor Bathfire -- that is truly Godly research!

And for Heathen_Basher's question, Jesus is indeed the Morning Star of Rev 22:16

Because . . .

Revelation 22:16 is Greek -- orthrinos astēr and it is a really easy translation -- "Morning Star" (singular).

Isaiah 14:12 is Hebrew -- so we can't do a word for word comparison. The Hebrew is Helel Ben-Shachar is "O shining star, son of the dawn". That usually gets condensed down to "morning star", but in a much different context then the Greek "orthrinos astēr". That's one reason it got Latinized to "Lucifer", so as to not be too confusing.

But yes, it can still be confusing at first because we are juggling 3 different languages, 2 of which are ancient and so have colloquial drift. And remember, it took 47 scholars close to 7 years to to do this. Praise God that these men were inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit to perform such a delicate and important task error free!