[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

If you look at the bible as a big jigsaw puzzle, all the pieces have to fit,to get the whole picture. Just as in a jigsaw puzzle other parts of the puzzle help you to understand where to put other pieces. That is how the bible interprets itself.
So God has made point of telling us that a 'Day' can mean many different time lengths , and is even used as an unspecified length of time, that means we can't say 24 hrs is meant every time.
But the point that life on earth has lasted thousands and thousand of generations and even died out, tells us the earth has been here a long time, by our standards of time. Also earth's geological events would have taken a long time. Certainly more than 7, 24 days.

Dear friend:

The Bible tells us that plants were created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13) and that the sun was created on the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). What is the maximum amount of time for which plants could have lived without the sun?

Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.

If there is no hell fire, why did Our Lord Jesus Christ refer to it, as recorded in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47? Also, what is the lake of fire mentioned four times in Revelation?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Romans 12:2 (King James Version)

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Evidence for a Young World


1. Galaxies wind themselves up too fast.

The stars of our own galaxy, the Milky Way, rotate about the galactic center with different speeds, the inner ones rotating faster than the outer ones. The observed rotation speeds are so fast that if our galaxy were more than a few hundred million years old, it would be a featureless disc of stars instead of its present spiral shape.1

2. Too few supernova remnants.

According to astronomical observations, galaxies like our own experience about one supernova (a violently-exploding star) every 25 years. The gas and dust remnants from such explosions (like the Crab Nebula) expand outward rapidly and should remain visible for over a million years. Yet the nearby parts of our galaxy in which we could observe such gas and dust shells contain only about 200 supernova remnants. That number is consistent with only about 7,000 years worth of supernovas.3

3. Comets disintegrate too quickly.

According to evolutionary theory, comets are supposed to be the same age as the solar system, about five billion years. Yet each time a comet orbits close to the sun, it loses so much of its material that it could not survive much longer than about 100,000 years. Many comets have typical ages of less than 10,000 years.4

4. Not enough mud on the sea floor.

Each year, water and winds erode about 20 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean.6 This material accumulates as loose sediment on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the sediment in the whole ocean is less than 400 meters.7 The main way known to remove the sediment from the ocean floor is by plate tectonic subduction. That is, sea floor slides slowly (a few cm/year) beneath the continents, taking some sediment with it. According to secular scientific literature, that process presently removes only 1 billion tons per year.7 As far as anyone knows, the other 19 billion tons per year simply accumulate. At that rate, erosion would deposit the present mass of sediment in less than 12 million years.

5. Not enough sodium in the sea.


Every year, rivers8 and other sources9 dump over 450 million tons of sodium into the ocean. Only 27% of this sodium manages to get back out of the sea each year.9,10 As far as anyone knows, the remainder simply accumulates in the ocean. If the sea had no sodium to start with, it would have accumulated its present amount in less than 42 million years at today’s input and output rates.10 This is much less than the evolutionary age of the ocean, three billion years. The usual reply to this discrepancy is that past sodium inputs must have been less and outputs greater. However, calculations that are as generous as possible to evolutionary scenarios still give a maximum age of only 62 million years.10

6. The earth’s magnetic field is decaying too fast.

The total energy stored in the earth’s magnetic field (“dipole” and “non-dipole”) is decreasing with a half-life of 1,465 (± 165) years.12 Evolutionary theories explaining this rapid decrease, as well as how the earth could have maintained its magnetic field for billions of years are very complex and inadequate. A much better creationist theory exists. It is straightforward, based on sound physics, and explains many features of the field: its creation, rapid reversals during the Genesis flood, surface intensity decreases and increases until the time of Christ, and a steady decay since then.13 This theory matches paleomagnetic, historic, and present data, most startlingly with evidence for rapid changes.14 The main result is that the field’s total energy (not surface intensity) has always decayed at least as fast as now. At that rate the field could not be more than 20,000 years old.15

7. Many strata are too tightly bent.

In many mountainous areas, strata thousands of feet thick are bent and folded into hairpin shapes. The conventional geologic time scale says these formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent. Yet the folding occurred without cracking, with radii so small that the entire formation had to be still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred. This implies that the folding occurred less than thousands of years after deposition.16


8. Biological material decays too fast.


Natural radioactivity, mutations, and decay degrade DNA and other biological material rapidly. Measurements of the mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA recently forced researchers to revise the age of “mitochondrial Eve” from a theorized 200,000 years down to possibly as low as 6,000 years.17 DNA experts insist that DNA cannot exist in natural environments longer than 10,000 years, yet intact strands of DNA appear to have been recovered from fossils allegedly much older: Neandertal bones, insects in amber, and even from dinosaur fossils.18

9. Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.

Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay.21 “Squashed” Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale.22 “Orphan” Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals.23,24

10. Too much helium in minerals.

Uranium and thorium generate helium atoms as they decay to lead. A study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research showed that such helium produced in zircon crystals in deep, hot Precambrian granitic rock has not had time to escape.25 Though the rocks contain 1.5 billion years worth of nuclear decay products, newly-measured rates of helium loss from zircon show that the helium has been leaking for only 6,000 (± 2000) years.26

11. Too much carbon 14 in deep geologic strata.

With their short 5,700-year half-life, no carbon 14 atoms should exist in any carbon older than 250,000 years. Yet it has proven impossible to find any natural source of carbon below Pleistocene (Ice Age) strata that does not contain significant amounts of carbon 14, even though such strata are supposed to be millions or billions of years old. Conventional carbon 14 laboratories have been aware of this anomaly since the early 1980s, have striven to eliminate it, and are unable to account for it. Lately the world’s best such laboratory which has learned during two decades of low-C14 measurements how not to contaminate specimens externally, under contract to creationists, confirmed such observations for coal samples and even for a dozen diamonds, which cannot be contaminated in situ with recent carbon.27 These constitute very strong evidence that the earth is only thousands, not billions, of years old.

12. Not enough Stone Age skeletons.

Evolutionary anthropologists now say that Homo sapiens existed for at least 185,000 years before agriculture began,28 during which time the world population of humans was roughly constant, between one and ten million. All that time they were burying their dead, often with artifacts. By that scenario, they would have buried at least eight billion bodies.29 If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 200,000 years, so many of the supposed eight billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artifacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the Stone Age was much shorter than evolutionists think, perhaps only a few hundred years in many areas.



13. Agriculture is too recent.

The usual evolutionary picture has men existing as hunters and gatherers for 185,000 years during the Stone Age before discovering agriculture less than 10,000 years ago.29 Yet the archaeological evidence shows that Stone Age men were as intelligent as we are. It is very improbable that none of the eight billion people mentioned in item 12 should discover that plants grow from seeds. It is more likely that men were without agriculture for a very short time after the Flood, if at all.31


14. History is too short.

According to evolutionists, Stone Age Homo sapiens existed for 190,000 years before beginning to make written records about 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.

Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.

Wrong. Matthew 25:46 ->


Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



Jesus says the punishment of the wicked is everlasting. The Greek word here is aionian, which is used by Jesus in the verse right before to talk about heaven, eternal life.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Dear friend:

The Bible tells us that plants were created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13) and that the sun was created on the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). What is the maximum amount of time for which plants could have lived without the sun?

Quote:
Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.
If there is no hell fire, why did Our Lord Jesus Christ refer to it, as recorded in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47? Also, what is the lake of fire mentioned four times in Revelation?

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

That includes the earth and everything else including the sun, moon and stars.

Many consider the word “day” used in Genesis chapter 1 to mean 24 hours. However, in Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion “day.” In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one “day”: “This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that God made earth and heaven.”

So does that mean all the creative days, are to fit in just one day? If you take this literally, then you have a contradiction, and the six creative days were not days at all but just a part of one day. What the bible is telling us that these we ages or time periods when things were done.

Now for the light.

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


First 'Day'
“‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3,*5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first 'day,' but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly observer to see. Now, light came to be visible on earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and nights.
The light came in a gradual process, extending over a long period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about verse*3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse*14. This is like a overcast day we get on the earth today.

Now on the Fourth 'Day'
Genesis 1:14-16 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Hebrew word there used for “light” is ’ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth 'day,' the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means the source of the light. Rotherham, in a footnote on “Luminaries” in the Emphasised Bible, says: “In ver. 3, ’ôr [’ohr], light diffused.” Then he goes on to show that the Hebrew word ma‧’ohr′ in verse 14 means something “affording light.” On the first “day” diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer because of the cloud layers still enveloping the earth. Now, on this fourth 'day,' things changed.

Now, had there been an earthly observer, he would be able to discern the sun, moon and stars, which would serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. (Genesis 1:14) The moon would indicate the passing of lunar months, and the sun the passing of solar years. The seasons that now “came to be” on this fourth 'day' would no doubt have been much milder than they became later on.—Genesis 1:15; 8:20-22.

So God did not create the sun or moon twice, or did he create the sun after the earth. I was created when he created the heavens and the earth.

I'll get to the Hell, question.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The reason there is no hell is that when we die we are dead. There is no afterlife, or immortality of the soul. ( this is for the majority of mankind, but there are a few that attain this immortality. )

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

So this is what death is. Non life.
There is no work or knowledge, or thoughts, in death.
So there is no hell, than the grave of mankind.
This means we are not tormented in death.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The reason there is no hell is that when we die we are dead. There is no afterlife, or immortality of the soul. ( this is for the majority of mankind, but there are a few that attain this immortality. )

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

So this is what death is. Non life.
There is no work or knowledge, or thoughts, in death.
So there is no hell, than the grave of mankind.
This means we are not tormented in death.

Wrong. Matthew 25:46 ->


Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus says the punishment of the wicked is everlasting. The Greek word here is aionian, which is used by Jesus in the verse right before to talk about heaven, eternal life.

And they don't just die, they are tortured, forever.

Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (People do not stay in the grave).

John 5:29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (the fire of hell is eternal)

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. (This shows us that death and hell are not the same thing. It would be better if you just die. But Jesus says the wicked go to hell, also)

James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. (The wicked are punished in fire after they die)

[Mr. Johan Innocent]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I thought it was rational to open the KJV 1611 and let God, who created the world, tell me all about the world. Does that mean that he hates me for rational thinking?

[AngelOfTheRose]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I thought it was rational to open the KJV 1611 and let God, who created the world, tell me all about the world. Does that mean that he hates me for rational thinking?

You are misconstruing the original post of the thread to further your communist lies (if you are indeed from China). Go back and re-read it fully this time instead of just cherry-picking and skimming across it before opening your mouth. That might save you from looking stupid in the future.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Wrong. Matthew 25:46 ->


Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus says the punishment of the wicked is everlasting. The Greek word here is aionian, which is used by Jesus in the verse right before to talk about heaven, eternal life.

And they don't just die, they are tortured, forever.

Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (People do not stay in the grave).

John 5:29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (the fire of hell is eternal)

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. (This shows us that death and hell are not the same thing. It would be better if you just die. But Jesus says the wicked go to hell, also)

James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. (The wicked are punished in fire after they

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


So the question is, are these scriptures contradictions, of the ones you posted? Because these ones say, when you are dead you have no thoughts, and that you go back to the dust.
It is pointless to torture some one that doesn't even know he is being tortured.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.

Our bodies do. But it also says we do not remain in the grave.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

John 5:29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Isaiah 66:24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Ecclesiastes is a book talking about how everything in the mortal world is vain because it passes away. He is talking only about the things of the mortal world. He does not suggest there is no afterlife.

The dead know nothing and do nothing, where? "Under the sun" (v 6). The dead are no longer engaged in earthly things. However, they await the resurrection from the dead.

Again, the subject is dead bodies. They do not work. The subject of the souls of the dead is addressed in chapter 11:9.

Ecclesiastes 11:9 Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.



The end is certain, but death is not the final thing. Solomon continues in the next verse: “but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.” And to confirm his words, Solomon continues in the next verse with: “remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh,” because that is what “walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes” will be, both in this life and in the life after.

So the question is, are these scriptures contradictions, of the ones you posted? Because these ones say, when you are dead you have no thoughts, and that you go back to the dust.
It is pointless to torture some one that doesn't even know he is being tortured.

No, they are not contradictory. Because the verses you post are talking about the fate of the mortal body. The Bible makes it clear people do not stay in the grave, neither the good nor the wicked, and that eternal torment is their destiny. Why are you calling the Bible contradictory. God doesn't like that

James 3:6 And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Isaiah 50:11 But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

If there is no hell fire, why did Our Lord Jesus Christ refer to it, as recorded in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47? Also, what is the lake of fire mentioned four times in Revelation?

Revelation 20:14 (King James Version)

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So the lake of fire means the second death. If you also noticed that hell and death are thrown into the lake of fire. So if Hell is a place of fiery torment, what sense would it make to pitch it into a lake of fire. And how do you pitch death into a lake of fire?
So what the lake of fire is, as the scripture says, is 'the second death'. The meaning of the second death, is destroyed forever.
We all are sinful and we die. that was caused by Adams sin. But the second death, is our failure , after knowing the truth, turning our backs on it. There is no forgiveness for that, so those ones receive the second death. No chance of a resurrection, either to the heavens ruling with Jesus, or as the subjects of that rule, the ones resurrected to the earth.
Besides spirit creatures would not be affected by a literal fire.


Ecclesiastes 9:5 (King James Version)

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten


Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There is no point of Satan being cast into the lake of fire, ( many people believe that Satan is going to torment, people after death, in 'Hell' ( with fire).
But this scripture says Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. That is not rational. So all this means, is that Satan will be destroyed for ever.
The angels do not have immortality. They can be destroyed.
Even Jesus did not gain immortality until after he died on the stake, and was resurrected to heaven.
The word “hell” originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar
The meaning of the word 'hell' has been corrupted over the years.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

No, they are not contradictory. Because the verses you post are talking about the fate of the mortal body. The Bible makes it clear people do not stay in the grave, neither the good nor the wicked, and that eternal torment is their destiny. Why are you calling the Bible contradictory. God doesn't like that

Actually I was asking you the question does the bible contradict itself? I never claimed that.
The understanding of the scriptures can be contradictory, if you don't have the correct understanding.
So it is the understanding that has to be clarified.
The bible is very rational. That is why to can trust it.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I have a question is there anyway I can edit a post after I have sent it?
I put my head down and type away, but I don't proof read them enough. I know I should, but I am doing work ( I'm an artist, and I'm writing and doing painting at the same time.)

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I have a question is there anyway I can edit a post after I have sent it?

Yes, but you are not sufficiently spiritually high to be trusted with such an awesome power.

( I'm an artist, and I'm writing and doing painting at the same time.)

I bet you get paint everywhere. Are you in an institution? Do you also do cutting out paper?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.

I am going to reply to this misleading post simply because it is so misleading.

You seem to think that "return to dust" means "turning into dust". Unless you are a foreigner, there is no excuse for this misunderstanding.

"and unto dust shalt thou return." simply says that we will be buried in the earth from which we were made, i.e. dust.

There are no contradictions in the Bible.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Revelation 20:14 (King James Version)

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell was emptied out, the place where the spirits of the dead who did not go to the bosom of Abraham went. At the end of time, all the spirits return to their bodies, the good and the evil alike. The wicked will then be cast into the lake of fire, to be tortured forever. They will never die. Death has been destroyed.

Revelation 20: 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


This states quite clearly that the evil people themselves will be thrown into the fire.



Revelation 21: 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



They aren't just dead. They are in a lake of fire and brimstone.

No chance of a resurrection, either to the heavens ruling with Jesus, or as the subjects of that rule, the ones resurrected to the earth.

Actually, the Bible clearly says that everyone will be resurrected, both the saved and the damned.

John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Besides spirit creatures would not be affected by a literal fire.

No. That's why Jesus is going to physically resurrect them.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (King James Version)

5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten

The dead know nothing and do nothing, where? "Under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 9: 6). The dead are no longer engaged in earthly things. However, they await the resurrection from the dead.The verse is trying to convey the vanity of materialism. Sort of like the modern day expression "You can't take it with you." It doesn't imply that death is final in the sense of there not being a resurrection.

The book is talking about the vanity of an ungodly life as temporal.

The author of Ecclesiastes explicitly addresses the subject of what happens after this life, see Ecclesiastes 11:9. So the meaning of “dead people” cannot be the souls of the dead people. But Solomon refers here to their dead bodies which lie in the grave.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nopass.html

Revelation 20:10 (King James Version)

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There is no point of Satan being cast into the lake of fire, ( many people believe that Satan is going to torment, people after death, in 'Hell' ( with fire).
But this scripture says Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. That is not rational. So all this means, is that Satan will be destroyed for ever.

Why is that not rational? Why should God punish Satan? Read what it says. It does not say Satan is destroyed. It says Satan will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The angels do not have immortality. They can be destroyed.

If Angels can be destroyed, why didn't God destroy Satan and the fallen angels? When in the Bible is an angel destroyed?

Even Jesus did not gain immortality until after he died on the stake, and was resurrected to heaven.

Actually, Jesus spent the three days of his physical death in hell.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Who are these imprisoned spirits Jesus made proclamation to? These are people of the past who were evil, even the disobedient people from the time of Noah. How could Jesus appear to these people if their spirits were not existing somewhere?

The word “hell” originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar
The meaning of the word 'hell' has been corrupted over the years.

This would have a point if the Bible was originally written in English. It wasn't. The Bible makes it clear that the wicked will face eternal fire.

Isaiah 50:11 But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.

James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.