[WWJDnow]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Why does Landover have no bishops, since the Bible apparently says they must?

Where does the Bible say a church has to have bishops? 1 Timothy 3 lists the qualifications for the bishopric, but it doesn't say anywhere that bishops are required.

Bottom line, Landover Baptist Church runs fine with the good pastors providing spiritual guidance and the Board of Deacons overseeing more worldly matters. If we needed a bishop, Jesus would no doubt annoint one for us--and he would certainly have a wife--but none is needed.

[Sacred Heart]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Where does the Bible say a church has to have bishops? 1 Timothy 3 lists the qualifications for the bishopric, but it doesn't say anywhere that bishops are required.

Why then does it need to list the qualifications? Aren't these irrelevant to a Church that does not require bishops? Are you simply saying that this passage of the Bible should not apply to you?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Why then does it need to list the qualifications? Aren't these irrelevant to a Church that does not require bishops? Are you simply saying that this passage of the Bible should not apply to you?

From Easton's Bible Dictionary, read it and weep:

Bishop: an overseer. In apostolic times, it is quite manifest that there was no difference as to order between bishops and elders or presbyters (Acts 20:17-28; 1 Pet. 5:1, 2; Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3).

The term bishop is never once used to denote a different office from that of elder or presbyter. These different names are simply titles of the same office, "bishop" designating the function, namely, that of oversight, and "presbyter" the dignity appertaining to the office. Christ is figuratively called "the bishop episcopos of souls" (1 Pet. 2:25).

I have already elsewhere explained that the celibacy of the Catlick cult started around the 11th century, as a result of the vicar of Rome being upset by the inheritance of what he saw as church property by rapacious wives. Rome worships Mammon.

[Oakland "Reb" Griner]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

. . . . Rome worships Mammon.

You factor in the idolatry, corruption of the 10 Commandments, ritualistic cannibalism, and the sacramental buggery of children and it just gets to the point where purification of the Vatican with some 10 megaton hell burner from the US Air Force seems like the only means we have available to fix the Catholic abominations !!

[Lola Handcock]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

May I ask a question
1 why do the catherliks make Saints out of their dead Popes ?
2 Why do they make saints out of some of their dead nuns ?
3 Why do they pray to the saints ,they worship them ?
sure looks to me like the worship false gods

1. Psalm 4:2
   
   How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame ? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods ?
2. Psalm 40:4
   
   Blessed is the man who makes the LORD his trust, who does not look to the proud, to those who turn aside to false gods.
3. Jeremiah 13:25
4. This is your lot, the portion I have decreed for you," declares the LORD, "because you have forgotten me and trusted in false gods.
5. Jeremiah 16:19
6. O LORD, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good.

[Thomas Aquinas]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The roman catholic "Church" is Not Christian. I want you all to understand this.

Let me be the arbiter of that.

As I believe one says in the 21st century of Our Lord, show me what you got!

Practically all precepts of the papists contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares. Jesus wants you to quit kissing those rings, and instead become washed clean in His Blood!

I would be the first to admit that to students unfamiliar with the Lord's Book, that it can look contradictory, so your confusion is predictable.

On one point, you are quite right, Jesus does want members of the Holy Church to become washed in his blood.

For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the catholic cult, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the catholics religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The papist Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)

How highly original!

Catlicks wuz murderers!

May I just assure you that I shall not stoop to these silly depths and mention such famously atheistic pogroms such as those of the Terrorists and sans culottes of the French Revolution or Mao Zedong to refute your point.

Alas, like many people, you seem to be unable to separate history from reality. Many bad things have happened in the name of God over many centuries. All of these have been due to the corruption of man, not God, so I'm pleased you raised this point, because it does emphasise the very fact of human free will.

It is not for God to decide how people act in His Holy Name, but He does see all.

Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish thugs.

I'd bother looking for the snoring emoticon, but my previous answer covers it anyway.

I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
* * * *

An ability to separate earthly fathers and heavenly Fathers is quite common among the spiritually-challenged.

Calling a priest "father" as a sign of respect for his closeness to God does not qualify as usurping the station of Christ, the Father to us all.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

And Timothy knew the mind of God? Was God speaking through Timothy?

Have you learnt nothing on your short course through life?

The evolution of the Bible and theology is a parallel to that of evolution.

Things change, and some people made mistakes!

Luckily, I am not one of them.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

* * * *

Ah, the ignorance of youth.



I don't know whether you've ever been married, but to look after a wife and children in true biblical tradition is a time-consuming task.

Men - yes men, not God - decreed that a true servant of his God has not time to spend on a biological family as well as his Christian one.

Maybe you're one of those people who enjoys watching husband & wife teams in mega-churches, but, having been involved in the rules which forbid priests marriage, I can assure you that the lack of matrimony is no barrier to any priest. We have our families in the congregation and can relax in the sanctity of knowledge that we are His chosen.

What on earth could a wife and children offer us above service of God, you silly child?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

* * * *

I forgive you this as you're simply showing the effects of ignorance.

You are my brother, yet I am 100% sure we are not related genetically.

Jesus' borthers were not biologically brothers, but metaphorical ones.

The irony of you thinking anything else is clearly lost upon you.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *

Clearly, cannot differentiate between "venerate" and "worship".

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

* * * *

Goodness me, you do like to mix your doctrinal errors up, don't you?

God is everlasting, Jesus was born of Mary and was a part of god, as you are a part of your biological father.

Amazing how easy this stuff is, isn't it?

Jesus' spirit may well have been everlasting, but the corporeal Jesus was born vaginally of woman.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *

See comment on priests & "father".

Same applies.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

* * * *

Where is the "wetting my pants laughing so hard" emoticon?

This is theology for five-year olds! Did your mommy not give you the religious facts on her knee? Maybe your parents were members of the paedophilic atheist doctrine?

Do you understand the fact of free will?

It seems you do not, so I shall clarify quickly for your edification.

Were humans all subject to a set doctrine of Our Lord, we would be but mere automatons and there would be no point to life at all beyond reproducing as blades of grass.

That Our Lord and Creator forethought to give us sentience is proof of His existence and Glory.

God knws full well both what the Bible says and that mere mortals will not agree on what it really says. That's why I was born; to explain to the ignorant.

Some listen.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *

Again, atheodicy of the worst kind.

The metaphorical bow in the Bible is that of bowing to a master. Again, you're simply confusing veneration with worship.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

* * * *

(bolding mine)

You reprint the literal words of Jesus then try to say he didn't say it?

What a peculiar approach!

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.


* * * *

Is this some attempt to suggest that the Roman Church does not good works?

Your arguments become less lucid with every passing paragraph.

I shall, regardless, continue to the end.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *

Illiterate rambling, I'm sorry.

Founded on the work of and founded on are two different subjects. Such nuance is plainly lost on you.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *

In the unintentional humour unning through this thread, this is getting close to the funniest part.

If you think the sins are being confessed to the priest, you are sadly mistaken. They are certainly being confessed to the priest as a means of confessing them to God, and we will answer for them again at the right hand of God, but they are not being confessed to the priest.

Dear me, I haven't had this much fun since the sixteenth century!

There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic cult. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic cult which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).

* * * *
The catholic cult has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of papism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.

Roman mary worship today is probably the wealthiest government/tax-free corporation in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not the Whore of Babylon (aka the catholic "church").

Praise Jesus!

(boldng mine again)

Many a true word spoken in jest.

That, and something I recall from the 18th century about being hoisted and one's own petard.

They own many of America's (and the rest of the world's, you short-sighted weakling) best and most efficient hospitals. (and schools, universities, art and other treasures)

And you're attacking them for it.

Priceless!

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Yet more news reaches me of the deluded pagans who call themselves "The International Business Conglomerate of Rome" (Motto, "Duping the gullible since 328AD")

Read THIS story. (It's from Fox News, so it's reliable)

METHUEN, Mass. — A Massachusetts woman who recently separated from her husband, had her hours at work cut, and moved into an apartment, says an image of Jesus Christ she sees on her iron has reassured her that "life is going to be good."

Mary Jo Coady first noticed the image on Sunday when she walked into her daughter's room.

The brownish residue on the bottom of the iron looks like the face of a man with long hair.

The 44-year-old Coady, who was raised Catholic, and her two college-age daughters agree that the image looks like Jesus and is proof that "he's listening."

Coady tells The Eagle-Tribune she hopes her story will inspire others during the holidays. She says she plans to keep the iron in a closet and buy a new one.

This woman can't keep a husband and is obviously a useless worker, has taken out a subprime mortgage. Yet, nevertheless, she thinks that some stain is Christ and worships it an prophesizes better times to come!


(perhaps she's a Christain Hee! Hee!)

Now, as yet, no picture of this apparition has been published, so I've sent Nephew Zebulun out with $1,000 to obtain one. I will add it when it arrives.

Edit: Just my luck, as soon as I post, Nephew Zebulun arrives!

[ForgivenSinner:)]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Well, either way, God knows them and we don't, so I think we should leave God to be the judge. I don't consider myself as any denomination or anything, but what I do know is that we should love everyone

[Meek and Humble]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

So short a post, yet oh so many things wrong.

Well, either way, God knows them and we don't, so I think we should leave God to be the judge.

If you think Christians should not judge others, then this section is for you.

If you think the Bible forbids judging others, then you haven't read it. The Bible forbids superficial judgment based on appearances and it forbids hypocrisy, but it does not forbid judgment. On the contrary, the saved are commanded to pass judgment on others.

Lev 19:15 In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Jn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I Cor 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

I Cor 5:12-13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I Cor 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Liberal Christians frequently take Matthew 7:1 out of context by claiming that it is prohibition against judging others. The full context is Matthew 7:1-5, and it is a prohibition against hypocrisy.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

My job as a Pastor is to find folks who are lost and to try to get them saved. That job would be made a lot harder if I were unable to judge who is lost and in need of salvation.

I don't consider myself as any denomination or anything, but what I do know is that we should love everyone

Psalm 139: 20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

[A Mad Dog]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Well, either way, God knows them and we don't, so I think we should leave God to be the judge. I don't consider myself as any denomination or anything, but what I do know is that we should love everyone

Amen.

[falsemesagebeliever]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

I challenge any of you to come and debate with me...

[false Christian debate website deleted]

[Nobar King]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

I challenge any of you to come and debate with me...

Mesage isn't even a word.

[Lars Thorwald]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Even though I am not one to judge, I would have to say that a lot of the practices of the Catholic Church are not christian.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Even though I am not one to judge, I would have to say that a lot of the practices of the Catholic Church are not christian.

Please go back and read the thread from the beginning. Catholics are NOT Christians by any stretch.

[Catholic Christian]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS -
1 Cor 4:15 "I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel."
Matt 19:19 "honor your father and mother."
Acts 7:2 - St. Stephen calls the Jewish leaders "fathers"
Acts 22:1 - St Paul calls Jews in Jerusalem "fathers"
Rom 4:16 "Abraham...is the father of all of us"
1 Tim 1:2 "Timothy...my true child in faith"
1 John 2:13 "I am writing to you, fathers"

I guess St. Paul, St Luke, St. John, St. Matthew are all papists.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

WHAT THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS -
Matt 19:12 "Some are incapable of marriage...renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom." - Christ himself praises celibacy
1 Cor 7:7-8 - St. Paul encourages the Corinthians to stay celibate as he is.

What you either don't realize or intentionally omit is that there ARE married priests in the Catholic Church. Celibacy is a "discipline" in the Roman Rite, there are many Eastern Rite Catholics who's priests can be married. Not to mention the are exceptions in the Roman Rite when certain Protestant ministers convert and after study are ordained.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

WHAT THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS -
Two of these four "brothers" of Jesus (James and Joseph) are sons of another Mary, who is significantly called "the other Mary" (Matt 27:61, Matt 28:1). Compare Matt 27:56 with John 19:25-27. None of the brothers of Jesus is ever called "son of Mary." Jesus entrusts Mary to St John, not another sibling. This is unthinkable, if Jesus had other brothers. The way Jesus' "brothers" advise (John 7:3-4) and rebuke him (Mark 3:21) is inconsistent with actions of younger brothers. Acts 1:14 shows Mary praying with Jesus' "brothers" but then she goes home with St John (John 19:27); again, this is highly unlikely in the Jewish culture of her time. "Brother" can mean something other than "blood brother". See 1 Cor 15:6 when Jesus appears to 500 "brothers" at once.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

SOMETHING TO CONSIDER -
Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Your statement that Mary is not the Mother of God, repeats the 5th century heresy of Nestorianism.

Ask yourself these questions: Was Jesus Christ God? Was he God when he was born? Was he God when he was conceived?

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

To avoid this conclusion, you seem to assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion, as I said above, reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.

The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinct persons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on Mary’s divine maternity. In fact, it even appears that Nestorius himself may not have believed the heresy named after him. Further, the "Nestorian" church has now signed a joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and recognizes Mary’s divine maternity, just as other Christians do.

Since denying that Mary is God’s mother implies doubt about Jesus’ divinity, it is clear why Christians (until recent times) have been unanimous in proclaiming Mary as Mother of God.

The Church Fathers, of course, agreed, and the following passages witness to their lively recognition of the sacred truth and great gift of divine maternity that was bestowed upon Mary, the humble handmaid of the Lord:

Irenaeus
"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
"[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing (theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men, and his manifestation by baptism, and the new birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by the laver [of baptism]" (Discourse on the End of the World 1 [A.D. 217]).
Gregory the Wonderworker
"For Luke, in the inspired Gospel narratives, delivers a testimony not to Joseph only, but also to Mary, the Mother of God, and gives this account with reference to the very family and house of David" (Four Homilies 1 [A.D. 262]).
"It is our duty to present to God, like sacrifices, all the festivals and hymnal celebrations; and first of all, [the feast of] the Annunciation to the holy Mother of God, to wit, the salutation made to her by the angel, ‘Hail, full of grace!’" (ibid., 2).

Peter of Alexandria
"They came to the church of the most blessed Mother of God, and ever-virgin Mary, which, as we began to say, he had constructed in the western quarter, in a suburb, for a cemetery of the martyrs" (The Genuine Acts of Peter of Alexandria [A.D. 305]).

"We acknowledge the resurrection of the dead, of which Jesus Christ our Lord became the firstling; he bore a body not in appearance but in truth derived from Mary the Mother of God" (Letter to All Non-Egyptian Bishops 12 [A.D. 324]).
Methodius
"While the old man [Simeon] was thus exultant, and rejoicing with exceeding great and holy joy, that which had before been spoken of in a figure by the prophet Isaiah, the holy Mother of God now manifestly fulfilled" (Oration on Simeon and Anna 7 [A.D. 305]).
"Hail to you forever, you virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for unto you do I again return. . . . Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . Wherefore, we pray you, the most excellent among women, who boast in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate your memory, which will ever live, and never fade away" (ibid., 14).

Cyril of Jerusalem
"The Father bears witness from heaven to his Son. The Holy Spirit bears witness, coming down bodily in the form of a dove. The archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing the good tidings to Mary. The Virgin Mother of God bears witness" (Catechetical Lectures 10:19 [A.D. 350]).
Ephraim the Syrian
"Though still a virgin she carried a child in her womb, and the handmaid and work of his wisdom became the Mother of God" (Songs of Praise 1:20 [A.D. 351]).

Athanasius
"The Word begotten of the Father from on high, inexpressibly, inexplicably, incomprehensibly, and eternally, is he that is born in time here below of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God" (The Incarnation of the Word of God 8 [A.D. 365]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
"Being perfect at the side of the Father and incarnate among us, not in appearance but in truth, he [the Son] reshaped man to perfection in himself from Mary the Mother of God through the Holy Spirit" (The Man Well-Anchored 75 [A.D. 374]).

Ambrose of Milan
"The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose?" (The Virgins 2:2[7] [A.D. 377]).
Gregory of Nazianz
"If anyone does not agree that holy Mary is Mother of God, he is at odds with the Godhead" (Letter to Cledonius the Priest 101 [A.D. 382]).

Jerome
"As to how a virgin became the Mother of God, he [Rufinus] has full knowledge; as to how he himself was born, he knows nothing" (Against Rufinus 2:10 [A.D. 401]).
"Do not marvel at the novelty of the thing, if a Virgin gives birth to God" (Commentaries on Isaiah 3:7:15 [A.D. 409]).
Theodore of Mopsuestia
"When, therefore, they ask, ‘Is Mary mother of man or Mother of God?’ we answer, ‘Both!’ The one by the very nature of what was done and the other by relation" (The Incarnation 15 [A.D. 405]).

Cyril of Alexandria
"I have been amazed that some are utterly in doubt as to whether or not the holy Virgin is able to be called the Mother of God. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how should the holy Virgin who bore him not be the Mother of God?" (Letter to the Monks of Egypt 1 [A.D. 427]).
"This expression, however, ‘the Word was made flesh’ [John 1:14], can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself flesh remaining what he was. This the declaration of the correct faith proclaims everywhere. This was the sentiment of the holy Fathers; therefore they ventured to call the holy Virgin ‘the Mother of God,’ not as if the nature of the Word or his divinity had its beginning from the holy Virgin, but because of her was born that holy body with a rational soul, to which the Word, being personally united, is said to be born according to the flesh" (First Letter to Nestorius [A.D. 430]).
"And since the holy Virgin corporeally brought forth God made one with flesh according to nature, for this reason we also call her Mother of God, not as if the nature of the Word had the beginning of its existence from the flesh" (Third Letter to Nestorius [A.D. 430]).
"If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the holy Virgin is the Mother of God, inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [John 1:14]: let him be anathema" (ibid.).

John Cassian
"Now, you heretic, you say (whoever you are who deny that God was born of the Virgin), that Mary, the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, cannot be called the Mother of God, but the Mother only of Christ and not of God—for no one, you say, gives birth to one older than herself. And concerning this utterly stupid argument . . . let us prove by divine testimonies both that Christ is God and that Mary is the Mother of God" (On the Incarnation of Christ Against Nestorius 2:2 [A.D. 429]).
"You cannot then help admitting that the grace comes from God. It is God, then, who has given it. But it has been given by our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore the Lord Jesus Christ is God. But if he is God, as he certainly is, then she who bore God is the Mother of God" (ibid., 2:5).
Council of Ephesus
"We confess, then, our Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, perfect God and perfect man, of a rational soul and a body, begotten before all ages from the Father in his Godhead, the same in the last days, for us and for our salvation, born of Mary the Virgin according to his humanity, one and the same consubstantial with the Father in Godhead and consubstantial with us in humanity, for a union of two natures took place. Therefore we confess one Christ, one Son, one Lord. According to this understanding of the unconfused union, we confess the holy Virgin to be the Mother of God because God the Word took flesh and became man and from his very conception united to himself the temple he took from her" (Formula of Union [A.D. 431]).
Vincent of Lerins
"Nestorius, whose disease is of an opposite kind, while pretending that he holds two distinct substances in Christ, brings in of a sudden two persons, and with unheard-of wickedness would have two sons of God, twoThe Notebooks 12[35] [A.D. 434]).


Is see no "stud" in your Bible Study. REASONED responses would be appreciated. Your gross misinterpretation of Scripture leads me to conclude with this:

2 Peter 1:20 - "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation."

and

2 Peter 3:15-16 - "And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures."

God Bless.