[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

It means if you didn't learn what the preacher tried to teach you because you too busy daydreaming to pay attention to the sermon, then it's real easy for a false teacher to come along and sway you with false teachings.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

Isn’t it saying more about understanding than being taught? It says there is a difference between hearing and understanding. What is sown in the heart? Because you lose it when you don’t understand: it is lost when you look but can’t find.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Isn’t it saying more about understanding than being taught? It says there is a difference between hearing and understanding. What is sown in the heart? Because you lose it when you don’t understand: it is lost when you look but can’t find.

No, God is explaining to us if we try interpreting His word Satan will whisper lies into our ears and trick us into damning ourselves.

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

But we’re not talking about that. We agreed that that is not a claim that can be sustained by logic. The Pastor says it is faith alone that can support this. And I am saying that neither logical analysis nor faith in the word, any word, is really enough.
...

Upon what basis do you make this ill conceived assertion?

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Upon what basis do you make this ill conceived assertion?

Logic alone is not enough to support an argument for scripture being the exclusive Word of God. http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...043#post293043 Others have better explained this circularity elsewhere. Something more than logic is needed.

Belief in scripture alone is not enough, for reasons above (Matthew 13:19). What do you make of the parable in Luke Chapter 8?

Luke 8:5-11 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

No, God is explaining to us if we try interpreting His word Satan will whisper lies into our ears and trick us into damning ourselves.

But understand it, and you will not lose that which was sown in your heart. There is so much in that passage.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Logic alone is not enough to support an argument for scripture being the exclusive Word of God. http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...043#post293043 Others have better explained this circularity elsewhere. Something more than logic is needed.

Belief in scripture alone is not enough, for reasons above (Matthew 13:19). What do you make of the parable in Luke Chapter 8?

Luke 8:5-11 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Clearly it shows that there is a God because He has a Kingdom. Proof indeed!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

But understand it, and you will not lose that which was sown in your heart. There is so much in that passage.

This sounds like you are on the slippery slope to interpretation friend. We human beings are terribly flawed at best, if not out right evil (without His Grace, PRAISE). The only understand we need to do is correctly listen to God's words.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

But we’re not talking about that. We agreed that that is not a claim that can be sustained by logic. The Pastor says it is faith alone that can support this. And I am saying that neither logical analysis nor faith in the word, any word, is really enough.

There's no contradiction between our faith and logic, just as there is no contradiction in the Bible. But I agree with you that faith cannot be justified by logic alone. You need to consider the facts, too. If the Bible said something that was demonstrably not true, then I'd have to agree with you, our faith would be wrong--not only that, but ENTIRELY wrong. Luckily, nothing in the Bible is controverted by the available facts. At the same time, you should also consider the broad array of prophecies in the Bible--God got a lot of them right, not one of them wrong, and the rest (e.g., the Book of Revelation) simply haven't happened yet. That's a pretty good track record, and one that secular science, which is constantly changing it's mind about everything, can't match. It's not even close.

Yes, but what do you understand by that? It needs more than just slavishly following the text.

There are 66 books in the Bible that explain it. I can't really cover everything from A to Z here, but I don't want to be evasive, either. Is there some particular point that interests you that you'd like me to flesh out?

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Clearly it shows that there is a God because He has a Kingdom. Proof indeed!

There are other kingdoms lorded over by others. As you know! Can you tell one from another? We have all been fooled, deception runs very deep. The word of God is the seed. It can fall upon a rock.

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

This sounds like you are on the slippery slope to interpretation friend. We human beings are terribly flawed at best, if not out right evil (without His Grace, PRAISE). The only understand we need to do is correctly listen to God's words.

I agree with you, interpretation via the intellect is fraught with errors. But I don't think either listening or interpreting will do.

Matthew 13:14/15 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

(bold mine)

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

There's no contradiction between our faith and logic, just as there is no contradiction in the Bible. But I agree with you that faith cannot be justified by logic alone. You need to consider the facts, too. If the Bible said something that was demonstrably not true, then I'd have to agree with you, our faith would be wrong--not only that, but ENTIRELY wrong. Luckily, nothing in the Bible is controverted by the available facts. At the same time, you should also consider the broad array of prophecies in the Bible--God got a lot of them right, not one of them wrong, and the rest (e.g., the Book of Revelation) simply haven't happened yet. That's a pretty good track record, and one that secular science, which is constantly changing it's mind about everything, can't match. It's not even close.

There are 66 books in the Bible that explain it. I can't really cover everything from A to Z here, but I don't want to be evasive, either. Is there some particular point that interests you that you'd like me to flesh out?

Thankyou, I appreciate that. I would definitely be interested to hear more on this. I just wondered how you and others might respond to that line. What is the official meaning? To non-believers it is a nonsensical statement, or just a bit of fancy poetry. To some it is the basis for extended scholarly debate, and they kill it and pin it down for analysis like a dead butterfly in a glass case. And to others still it opens the eyes.

(I can see the discussions about available facts and such like are going on in other threads. It’s tricky talking of prophecies that haven’t come to pass yet! They cannot be falsified so for the purposes of science, so wouldn’t be taken seriously by those in that field. But we are back to the whole ‘wrong tools’ thing. Anyway, I am more interested in the present than the future....)

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Thankyou, I appreciate that. I would definitely be interested to hear more on this. I just wondered how you and others might respond to that line. What is the official meaning? To non-believers it is a nonsensical statement, or just a bit of fancy poetry. To some it is the basis for extended scholarly debate, and they kill it and pin it down for analysis like a dead butterfly in a glass case. And to others still it opens the eyes.

(I can see the discussions about available facts and such like are going on in other threads. It’s tricky talking of prophecies that haven’t come to pass yet! They cannot be falsified so for the purposes of science, so wouldn’t be taken seriously by those in that field. But we are back to the whole ‘wrong tools’ thing. Anyway, I am more interested in the present than the future....)

Ok friend, what exactly is your point or your question here? You will have to excuse Brother Smith, he is currently on emergency virtual retreat.

[Pastor Al E Pistle]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

Thankyou, I appreciate that. I would definitely be interested to hear more on this. I just wondered how you and others might respond to that line. What is the official meaning? To non-believers it is a nonsensical statement, or just a bit of fancy poetry. To some it is the basis for extended scholarly debate, and they kill it and pin it down for analysis like a dead butterfly in a glass case. And to others still it opens the eyes.

(I can see the discussions about available facts and such like are going on in other threads. It’s tricky talking of prophecies that haven’t come to pass yet! They cannot be falsified so for the purposes of science, so wouldn’t be taken seriously by those in that field. But we are back to the whole ‘wrong tools’ thing. Anyway, I am more interested in the present than the future....)

Sorry Joe....Ahimazz Smith stepped off the curb yesterday without looking both ways and was hit by a Gypsy driving a stolen Kosher Meals-On-Wheels van. Ahimazz is in the hospital and 104 elderly people went hungry. We think he may actually have been targeted for his rather verbal anti-Gypsy campaign and the elderly JOOs were simply collateral damage.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

I agree with you, interpretation via the intellect is fraught with errors. But I don't think either listening or interpreting will do.

Matthew 13:14/15 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

That passage is about folks who are so in love with their sin that they become enslaved to it. That's why their hearts are waxed gross, their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have closed.

This video shows exactly what I'm talking about.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[joe707]

Re: PROOF God is REAL!

That passage is about folks who are so in love with their sin that they become enslaved to it. That's why their hearts are waxed gross, their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have closed.

This video shows exactly what I'm talking about.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

But is it because of sin that their hearts are waxed gross? Is it not the other way round? It's not disobeying the law that waxes gross the heart or dulls the ears – it is lack of understanding. It is a deficiency in perception.

Mark 7:18/19 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?