[James Dewitt]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

With great respect cranky, I am a computer science graduate.
I have recently been developing applications for devices such as GPS receivers. Now you can not tell me that there are no Satellites in space?

NASA have launched Satellites in the past, they are not responsible for most of the Satellites in space.

I will agree with you however, I do think NASA have been up to bad for a long time and this may shock you but I do not believe we landed on the moon. The evidence against it is astonishing! Plus being a semi-professional photographer (in my spare time) even I can see that the lighting is wrong!

It's nice to be able to agree with someone on this forum, I am sure we agree for different reasons though.



Paster Billy - Thank you for your civilised reply.

If space were a Vacuum (which science believes it to be) this firstly means there is no Air and therefore no resistance, the lack of gravity and air resistance means an object will just float. Now add the Earth in to the equation, the Earth emits a gravitational pull, which causes an object orbit around the Earth. The speed depends on the distance away from the Earth.

Ok, So the helicopter, you are correct with your idea that a helicopter hovering is in a (technically) geosynchronous position. The problem is, what use is this?
A Satellite has a massive coverage of the Earth. From its position in Space the entire side of the Earth it is above.
Because there is no Air/Resistance (friction) in Space (A Vacuum) being too close to the Earth means it would travel fast around the Earth.
So that is why Geosynchronous Satellites have be sent so far away.

Back to the Helicopter, The Air resistance and the constant gravitational pull of the Earth means that fuel is needed for propulsion to keep it in the air.
This is why Satellites are put in space because once they are in Orbit with the Earth they stay there.

When did God put satellites in space? I bet He put them there to get His message to all the unsaved trash who do not have a Bible! Glory to Gods infinite wisdom!

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I am a computer science graduate. ... Now you can not tell me that there are no Satellites in space?

For a "computer science graduate" you're not very good at paying attention. I never said there are no satellites. I said that those sattelites being more than 10.000 miles above Earth is NASA hogwash to steal our money. I think they use weather balloons or something similar for those satellites. The money they get for building rockets is used for expensive vacations to Haiti.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

If space were a Vacuum (which science believes it to be) this firstly means there is no Air and therefore no resistance, the lack of gravity and air resistance means an object will just float. Now add the Earth in to the equation, the Earth emits a gravitational pull, which causes an object orbit around the Earth. The speed depends on the distance away from the Earth.

OK, so your conclusion rests on the assumption that space is a vacuum, but since, as we have already established, the firmament is a solid structure, and since Boyle's Law states that gases expand to fill their container, we know that the atmosphere rises to the top of the firmament. In addition, we know that the sun and moon, and all of the stars and planets, are therefore inside the atmosphere by virtue of being inside the firmament. That's also common sense, because how could the sun burn if it were in a vacuum?

Ok, So the helicopter, you are correct with your idea that a helicopter hovering is in a (technically) geosynchronous position. The problem is, what use is this?
A Satellite has a massive coverage of the Earth. From its position in Space the entire side of the Earth it is above.

Why does it have to be so far away to see the whole Earth? The Bible tells us that the whole Earth can be seen even from the tops of tall mountains (Mt. 4:5).

Because there is no Air/Resistance (friction) in Space (A Vacuum) being too close to the Earth means it would travel fast around the Earth.

Wait a minute. Hypothetically, if the Earth were nearly spherical as you claim, and if a satellite is orbiting the Earth, then as the satellite moved further away from the center of the Earth, the distance it had to cover to orbit the Earth would increase, so if the satellite were trying to stay in one place relative to the rotating spherical body below it, then the further it is away from the center, the faster it would have to travel.

If the diameter of a spherical Earth is roughly 13000 km, then a satellite traveling at an altitude of 1000 km would have to fly a distance of (14000 * pi) ≅ 44000km over the course of 24 hours to remain in a geosynchronous position, or roughly 30 km/minute. A satellite traveling at an altitude of 10000km would have to fly a distance of (23000 * pi) ≅ 72000km over the course of 24 hours to remain in a geosynchronous position, or roughly 50 km/minute.

So the speed required to remain in a geosynchronous position increases as the orbiter moves away from the orbitee.

Edited to add: However, since the Earth is, in fact, stationary and doesn't rotate (I Ch 16:30, Heb 1:10), then all that is really required to stay in a geosynchronous position is to hover in one spot.

Back to the Helicopter, The Air resistance and the constant gravitational pull of the Earth means that fuel is needed for propulsion to keep it in the air.
This is why Satellites are put in space because once they are in Orbit with the Earth they stay there.

How much air resistance does a hovering helicopter encounter? Satellites run out of fuel and crash all the time.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[PD1982]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Pastor,

Your Math is all based on the assumption that Bible is correct. (which I am not here to dispute)

Satellites crash because they have either been knocked out of orbit by debris in space or because the Earths gravitational pull is slowly pulling them back down to Earth.

This is a most interesting discussion because I can completely see where you are coming from and your argument could be very convincing!
It has been a really good read.

I don't have enough time to try to justify my claims(which I am sure is something you will bring me up on), however would you agree it would be interesting to see how civilian space travel turns out in the next 10-20 years?

You may just prove us all wrong, who knows, your thread has certainly got me thinking a lot, I know that there is a lot of conspiracy in this world.

When independent companies begin civilian space travel we will soon see.
I believe Virgin Galactic to have an aircraft ready. I would assume its not going to fly that high, however as more aviation companies begin to branch out into this travel they may become more adventurous.

Time will tell us.


Also, Cranky, Weather balloons would be blown about by the winds that have been claimed to be at high altitudes by other members of this forum earlier on in this discussion and therefore could not allow them to remain Geostationary. Also I would be out on my roof all day trying to get signal to my Satellite dish instead of on here

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Pastor,

[...]
I don't have enough time to try to justify my claims(which I am sure is something you will bring me up on), however would you agree it would be interesting to see how civilian space travel turns out in the next 10-20 years?

Yes, I have made a calendar date for 17th Jan 2037, please post again then (and not before).

[GOD=life]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

With great respect cranky, I am a computer science graduate. I have recently been developing applications for devices such as GPS receivers.

Appeal to authority fallacy. Will not stand in rational debate.

Now you can not tell me that there are no Satellites in space?

So your argument is that you are right because... you are right?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

As for people saying that we are launching satellites into deep space, this is just preposterous! God would NEVER allow that! Haven't you read the story of the Tower of Babel?

If you haven't, turn to Genesis 11:1-9.

In this story, the people of the world in approximately 2400 B.C. decide to build a huge tower. God is worried, because he thinks they will build a tower so high that it will reach heaven. He says, "now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." Apparently, if human beings climb into heaven (as opposed to being brought there physically in a chariot of fire, or having your soul ascend there after you die) they will become omnipotent like God (there's another thing that allows for humans to become like Gods, eat the fruit of the Tree of Life, but luckily that is guarded in a garden in an unknown location on earth, protected by an angel holding a sword of fire). God would not allow this, so He intervened and stopped the construction.

Now then, if these satellites were going so far away as the scientists claim, they should have burst into heaven and seen God's kingdom, but they haven't! The Tower of Babel is often identified by scholars with being what is also known as "The Great Ziggurat of Babylon", which was 91 meters tall and already pushing into heaven's boundaries! (of course, secular scholars will try to tell you this tower was built in 610 B.C., but we know from the Bible it was actually much earlier than that).

[PD1982]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

.... known as "The Great Ziggurat of Babylon", which was 91 meters tall and already pushing into heaven's boundaries! (of course, secular scholars will try to tell you this tower was built in 610 B.C., but we know from the Bible it was actually much earlier than that).

Thats interesting because I went up a building that was nearly 700 meters tall.

Didn't pass God on the way up.

[Professor]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

For one, i am saved, contrary to what my title may say (unsaved trash). I believe what is contained in the bible, but i also believe that some of the stories are not to be taken literally, but are there as aids to help the understanding of what jesus was trying to say at the time.

Now i will try to keep this short and sweet:

Why are some of you arguing against some aspects of science that have not been brought up in the conversation prior to that? Are you threatened by this science? Do you believe that it is stronger than your basis? If you are as knowlegable as you claim, you will know that someone only fights something if they are either mentally disturbed (i do not believe you are), or are threatened by it. (this is not science, i have noticed this myself, if you want to stand there and judge my own discoveries go ahead, but i do not believe you are in a position to do so).

Also, i have seen some of those of you that are arguing against science use science in their arguements. I will not provide quotes unless asked for, as i believe that those of you that are actually reading this thread in FULL would have seen this.

And more, for someone who believes that science can not be trusted, you seem to know an awful lot of it. Do you enjoy knowing everything, but also knowing it is false. Tell me, what is the point of this? If you say "it is good to know what you are fighting" guess what, as gods army, we are not fighting each other, we are fighting something much more than that. We cannot know this enemy, only god can know this, as he knows all. Why do you need to gather information, if everything you are and have you give to god. He is all knowing and all seeing, and thus he has no need for you to gather him information. Thus, you are gathering this information for YOU, not for him, thus are selfish, and are not full in your faith.
If you require knowlege, will god not speak through you. Your behaviour shows you do not trust god to do this...... This upsets me for one, it should upset you to realise this too....

And as a last resort, i shall state this:
DO you realise that the bible was translated by science, and if you can not trust science, then you can not trust that the translation of the bible is accurate at all, and inface cound be completely different. You can not be choosing what science you believe and what you do not, it IS all or nothing. This means that, unless you can read the bible in its original language(s), then you should not believe ANYTHING you read in the bible.
(if you can read the bible as it was originally, please prove this to me).


How can you say that science is trying to deny the bible? If scientists wanted to ruin christianity, they would have purposly made the bible sound like a horrible thing, but i read it as a wonderfull story of our lord.
Explain that to me.

[GOD=life]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I believe what is contained in the Bible, but i also believe (so you know better than God...) that some of the stories are not to be taken literally (yes, and YOU choose which stories to take literally; welcome to Bible corruption 101), but are there as aids to help the understanding of what Jesus was trying to say (Yes, because he was too "stupid" to say it) at the time.

Either you believe the Bible or you don't. If you say that your own opinions overrule the Word of God, then you don't believe the Bible, but a corrupted version that you adapted for your convenience. This argument goes against God's own words:

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Are you threatened by this science?

On the contrary, we love science, rational arguments and logic. We just don't like atheists trying to distort science as though it conflicts with the Bible. Not surprisingly, the Bible has remained exactly the same while science has had to adapt itself over and over -- where every iteration brings it more in line with the Bible.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Also, i have seen some of those of you that are arguing against science use science in their arguements.

I have not been arguing against true science, only pseudoscience, otherwise known as "science falsely so called" (I Tim 6:20).

True science is what happens when you start with facts and observations, and proceed forward to your conclusion. Pseudoscience is what happens when you start with what you want to prove, and then look for evidence that can be spun to back up your claims, coming up with ad-hoc theories to explain away any contradictory evidence.

People who want to believe that man is insignificant imagine a huge universe where the Earth is a tiny speck, so they set about looking for ways to prove that "space" consists of absurd sizes and distances. They assume one quantity to calculate another, and then make calculations based on that result to "prove" their original assumption.

One wonderful fact I keep noticing is that true science always confirms the Bible. Scientists are looking for truth with a candle in the dark. If they ever finally find it, they'll discover that Bible believing Christians have had it all along.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Meek and Humble]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Thats interesting because I went up a building that was nearly 700 meters tall.

Didn't pass God on the way up.

How do you know how tall it was? Did you measure it?! Or are you relying on ScIeNtists claims of how tall these buildings are?

Anyway you look that them, the Bible tells us these skyscrapers are againsts God's will and are an abomination!

[Meek and Humble]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

And as a last resort, i shall state this:
DO you realise that the bible was translated by science, and if you can not trust science, then you can not trust that the translation of the bible is accurate at all, and inface cound be completely different. You can not be choosing what science you believe and what you do not, it IS all or nothing. This means that, unless you can read the bible in its original language(s), then you should not believe ANYTHING you read in the bible.
(if you can read the bible as it was originally, please prove this to me).

Knowing how to read anothe language and translating it is considered "science", now is it.

Anyway, the King James Bible is a perfect translation of the original languages. And while I'm not yet fluent in them, I know a lot more of it than you do.

How can you say that science is trying to deny the bible? If scientists wanted to ruin christianity, they would have purposly made the bible sound like a horrible thing, but i read it as a wonderfull story of our lord.
Explain that to me.

The explanation is simple - you are a liar. You don't believe in God at all. You worship yourself and the father of lies, Satan.

You cannot be a Christian and believe in science!

It is very simple - Jesus was born to rescue us from the original sin. If there is no Adam and Eve, there is no original sin. Hence the whole premise for Christianity will break down. So every true Christian should believe in creation account - literally.

I think the nature of sin is one of the big different between creation and evolution.

Evolution doesn't really recognize sin, and see death and suffering as a part of nature and necessary process in evolution, to evolve to new species.

But bible says that death and suffering are because of sin, it is not what God wanted, and nothing nature and necessary about it.

I think Christians who still believe in evolution don't really realize the cruelty of evolution. 90% of a group have to die off in order for the rest of the 10& to "evolve".

God won't use death and suffering in His creation. And I think God is smart enough to make everything perfect in the beginning (just like what the bible says) instead of made a few amoebas and let them "evolve" over time.

For those of you who watched Dr. Kent Hovind's videos, I accept most of his views about this.

[Professor]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Knowing how to read anothe language and translating it is considered "science", now is it.

Yes, many thngs can be described as a science, the science of litterature for example.

On the contrary, we love science, rational arguments and logic.

You cannot be a Christian and believe in science!

wait so you are saying that GOD=life cannot be a christian?


Now look, i firmly believe in jesus as my saviour, and the world will never take him away from me, and neither will it take me from him. The only person who has the right to tell me that i am not a christian is god himself.

Now you can see in the example above that, when taken out of context, things can be twisted to mean different things, and this was dont with my words. I shall not back them up again, i do not see the need.

[Professor]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

and this was dont with my words

sorry that was meant to say done, not dont