[One-eyed Jack]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

Yes, I had forgotten Marilyn Manson's artistic contribution to the cosmetics industry.

"Marilyn Manson was raised in the Episcopal Church. His father was Catholic and his mother was Episcopalian. He attended a nondenominational Christian school."

Unfortunately he threw away the Lord's great gift of salvation when he started dressing up like a woman.

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5

Incidentally, in my previous post I did not mean to imply that belief in Christ is equivalent to belief in fairies. The Christ is the Truth, more real than all the "scientific" evidence in the world. I meant to use the comparison only to demonstrate how silly the superstitious ones are when they attack the One True Faith as a superstition.

Truly they think they see the mote in their brother's eye whilst ignoring the beam in their own.

Praise ye the Lord: and ye shall be saved!

~~ OEJ

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

EnigmaticHarpo: You are such a serious young fellow.

I believe that you've hinted in a couple of posts that you "worship" Satan. That was my take on your words, anyway.

I have no respect for someone who attacks the Christian God as a fable but indulges himself in crackpotteries like Satanism or Wicca or UFO-worship. It's like vituperatively ridiculing those who believe in fairies, but insisting that leprechauns are real.

It's extreme mental laziness.

If your "real god" is rationalism, the discussion should be different. But that's not my understanding. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)



As to the rest, don't take things so seriously. You can try to insult me back -- many have -- but I will merely reply that indeed it's true: I have the IQ of wet mud and could not satisfy a female rabbit even it I took a bushel of Viagra tablets. And I live under a decaying covered bridge (closed to traffic due to rotting timbers) and suffer from ARFS -- age-related flatulence syndrome. It's horrible.

But go ahead, insult me.



Most American congressmen are Christian; many of the Republican movers and shakers have been pretty fundamentalist Christians. Tom DeLay used to speak at Christian "Worldview Weekend" seminars, which are described thus:

"The whole point of the conference is to learn how fundamentalists can win greater political influence, overturn the separation of church and state and bring government under religious control. The goal is 'dominion,' not a corner of a 'big tent' or power sharing with non-believers. Worldview Weekend organizers and attendees don't want a place at the table they want the whole table."

DeLay is out, but other Worldview Weekend regulars in the Congress -- like Frank Wolf, R-Va -- are still in power.

George Grant is a WW regular who gives some idea who these congressmen are working with. His defining statement is:

"World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less."

Political power: Christians have a lot. Satanists don't.

As far as the arts, Tolkien was a Christian and so was Graham Greene. So was Tolstoy, in a rather rationalist way. El Greco was a Christian concerned that Popish Rome had gone astray. Etc.

Isaac Newton wrote on Christian prophecy, which he believed was essential to understand God. Nicholas Copernicus was a canon of the Catholic Church. Rene Descartes was a Catholic who hoped his philosophy would become part of the Catholic philosophical system. Robert Boyle, the physicist and chemist who we revere for Boyle's Law, wrote a book called The Christian Virtuoso and believed the study of nature was a religious duty. Etc.

I think among "satanist achievements" one can count the hodgepodge of pamphlets and poems of Aleister Crowley, most rather dated and not of much note even when fresh. And that's about it.

~~ OEJ

Ahh, finally an adversary worth having (I mean this in all seriousness) and I will not insult, mainly because I feel this would accomplish nothing. It is refreshing to have a nemesis who is willing to cut the shit and get to the point; I applaude you. You would be correct in assuming that I am a follower of Satan. I stand before you and admit it. Where you are mistaken though is in your assumption that I feel that God is a fairy tale. No my friend, to me he is very real and an ever looming threat; much in the same way you feel about Satan. I do think that your holy book is full of nonsense though, but that may be a topic of discussion for another time. I am quite aware of the contributions made by christians, I simply find arguments based on vague suggestions and referances to be.....inane. YOU must be aware though that this is a christian nation in every sense of the word, much as the western known world has been throughout the centuries, and I ask you whether or not you think that it makes a suitable environment for the acknowledgement of people of my...faith. Just because you do not hear of their works does not mean they don't exist. I am short on time so I must leave it at that, running the risk of being hypocritical I know, but I think you understand my point.

P.S. Salvation Seeker: I highly suggest you take a reading comprehension course if you find the chance to do so because.....well, damn.

[Brother Temperance]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

Yes, I had forgotten Marilyn Manson's artistic contribution to the cosmetics industry.

"Marilyn Manson was raised in the Episcopal Church. His father was Catholic and his mother was Episcopalian. He attended a nondenominational Christian school."

Unfortunately he threw away the Lord's great gift of salvation when he started dressing up like a woman.

Well, I'd say he threw away the Lord's great gift of salvation when he made the lifestyle choice of being born to an Episcopalian harlot, but it's a bit of an academic point really.

Incidentally, in my previous post I did not mean to imply that belief in Christ is equivalent to belief in fairies.

Of course not. Unicorns, perhaps, but definitely not fairies.

[One-eyed Jack]

Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

EnigmaticHarpo: No, of course the climate of America is not currently friendly to Satanists.

And in general Western -- or for that matter Muslim -- culture has not been receptive to Satanism for, well, forever. Not if you take Satan as the Fallen One, the Adversary, the Shaitan of Islam; or haSatan, the being who is The Challenger in Judaism.

If you take instead the faux-pagan view that Satan is a synonym for the Wiccan "horned god" then you might argue that pre-Christian Europe was the native environment for Satanism. But in fact the religion of the "horned god" was anachronistically created in the 20th century by Gerald Gardner and a few others. I think historians now agree that it never existed as a cohesive or even coherent religion in antiquity.

I'm not sure where this leaves the discussion.

I would hold that Christian theology -- an all-knowing, all-powerful Creator who resides outside spacetime and who embodies perfection -- is something of a philosophical absolute. As the prophet Isaiah recognized, it is necessary to posit such an absolute definition in order to explain the world:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

While I welcome your comments -- the intarweb can be interesting! -- I feel Satanism is unserious because it does not seem to engage deep questions of meaning and existence. It seems simply to anthropomorphize good and evil, casting God and Satan into those roles. Of course some Christians do the same, assigning all evil to the influence of Satan, but it's a naive view: as Isaiah understood, if God is an omnipotent Creator then it is necessary for God to create evil if there is in fact evil in the world.

I don't see that philosophical seriousness in Satanism.

-----

There is one further thing. Outside of Christianity -- which is divine revelation -- most religions evolve as social entities which benefit their societies. Islam, for instance, helped the famously independent Arabic tribes to unite for the first time. The Koran is artistically captivating and intellectually engaging; and its teachings appeal to the better instincts of mankind (brotherhood, benevolence, mercy) and at the same time inspire unity and determination in righteous warfare.

Islam is a pretty nicely-evolved belief-system, in other words. A good mind-virus, capable of prospering and spreading...as it has, down the centuries and across the continents.

I don't see that kind of serious potential in Satanism. Frankly, it seems to me more suited to Marilyn Manson: a cosmetic fad.

I could be wrong, of course. All this could be gas from a famously gassy old fart.

~~ OEJ

[Gir_rocks]

Re: Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

What kind of word is "homer" anyway?

True, several that believe in God can say that God is logic. BUt there are some that are skeptical in ways, and others who, possibly, may want to convert to this faith and are more logical than others. Maybe they want proof. But no one can proove that God is real, nor can they prove he isn't. It's basically a matter of opinion and wether or not you want to believe in a almighty person who could or could not have made a whole universe. Maybe, indeed, there will never be an explanation to anything having to do with a God or God(s). It, basically, depends upon opinion.

Now, proving God is real is impossible except for those who have it in their minds that he is. People can only judge if he is real. Who, in the end, knows how the whole universe was made? If you claim you do, I think you're really ignorant.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

P.S. Salvation Seeker: I highly suggest you take a reading comprehension course if you find the chance to do so because.....well, damn.

Aww.. still hurt eh? Are all satanists as easily hurt as you?
And do you all throw baseless accusations and hissy-fits whenever you have nothing to say? (ie most of the time.)

It's alright though, we understand:
We do have a BASH ministry for people just like you after all.
Why don't you enroll, it might cure you of your satanism, as well as your homersexuality.
After all, the two are basically the same thing anyway.

[Gir_rocks]

Re: Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

Of course not. Unicorns, perhaps, but definitely not fairies.

Ooh, I like unicorns! xD

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

Ooh, I like unicorns! xD

Then you should read THIS thread, heathen!

[Gir_rocks]

Re: Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

Then you should read THIS thread, heathen!

Hey, I was just saying that I think of unicorns as peaceful but spirited! I read the nonsense thread, and it hasn't changed my perspective at all!

[Jesus is Lord]

Re: Satanism and the politico-religious climate of America

Hey, I was just saying that I think of unicorns as peaceful but spirited! I read the nonsense thread, and it hasn't changed my perspective at all!

Nonsense? NONSENSE?! That thread quotes a number of verses from the Holy KJV1611 Bible all of which shows that unicorns aren't the cute creatures that people think they are.

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

One-eyed Jack:

I cannot deny what you say about the philosophical value of books such as the Bible and Koran. I have read both (well I haven't read the Koran the whole way through I must admit). They give great insight into the human psyche and the evolution of society as a whole. I feel inclined though to leave them there at nothing more than interesting texts on philosophy. To take them beyond this point seems somewhat absurd to me. We have seen what occurs if we do so. The middle east, who adheres strictly to the Koran is a quamire of bloodshed, strife, and suffering. In the West, where we follow the tenents of Christianity we have only become less blatent about the same characteristics. I remember reading, though I can't remember where, that more people have died in the name of Christ than any other man in the history of mankind. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that either of these books were intended to have these kinds of reprecussions.

I think that Satanism does have value in the sense that both these religions do. It is manifest of our social climate. As a race we have done seen the effects of mainstream religions and where they have gotten us. When we practice Satanism we our simply discarding ideas and ways of thinking that have already been tried and we try to shift them to ways that have not been tried. This is how progress is made. If we never change the way we think, the world would still be a flat disc in the center of the universe.

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

Aww.. still hurt eh? Are all satanists as easily hurt as you?
And do you all throw baseless accusations and hissy-fits whenever you have nothing to say? (ie most of the time.)

Well, I see you didn't take me up on my advice. No skin off my ass I guess. I do wonder though how you will be able to argue the Bible if you don't understand what you are reading. Not a very well trained soldier of Christ are you?

It's alright though, we understand

Do you? If you can't comprehend what you read how can you understand written messages?

We do have a BASH ministry for people just like you after all.
Why don't you enroll, it might cure you of your satanism, as well as your homersexuality.
After all, the two are basically the same thing anyway.

Does that make you a Satanist?

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

Still the same accusation eh? Are you actually STILL hurt?
And seriously, can't you come up with some new baseless accusation atleast?
And preferably something that's atleast slightly believable..?

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

Still the same accusation eh? Are you actually STILL hurt?
And seriously, can't you come up with some new baseless accusation atleast?
And preferably something that's atleast slightly believable..?

I think Satan was sending you a message....

Is that baseless enough for you?

Do you see all those curly marks after my sentances? They're called question marks. That mean I was asking you a question. You didn't answer any one of my questions did you. Tsk, tsk now that's no way to carry on a conversation. What would Jesus think if he saw you being so rude?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: I want you to prove to me that god is real.

One-eyed Jack:

I cannot deny what you say about the philosophical value of books such as the Bible and Koran. I have read both (well I haven't read the Koran the whole way through I must admit). They give great insight into the human psyche and the evolution of society as a whole. I feel inclined though to leave them there at nothing more than interesting texts on philosophy. To take them beyond this point seems somewhat absurd to me. We have seen what occurs if we do so. The middle east, who adheres strictly to the Koran is a quamire of bloodshed, strife, and suffering. In the West, where we follow the tenents of Christianity we have only become less blatent about the same characteristics. I remember reading, though I can't remember where, that more people have died in the name of Christ than any other man in the history of mankind. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that either of these books were intended to have these kinds of reprecussions.

You really have that plastic pitchfork up your backside kid, don’t you? The Bible is not intended as a “philosophical” discussion like say Plato’s Republic. It is meant as a call for action and is specifically calculated to put anyone following it at war with the rest of society. The fact that the west is not wallowing in blood shows how far Christianity has been corrupted. In the 15th to 16th centuries Europe was awash in religious violence from Christians who would make Al Queda look like a bunch of Quakers. Somewhere along the way, like after most of Germany was turned into a wasteland, everyone agreed to disagree when came religion. In other words the West turned its’ back on Christ and spat in God's eye.

PRAISE JESUS we TRUE Christians™ have had our eyes open and we read the Bible for as it is. We are returning America back its’ Christian past and when that day His will is done in this country Satanist losers like you, along with atheists and other God mockers are going into the bonfire. Then next Europe and Canada. Many will suffer and die but I know it will be for the best in the long run. The Bible tells me so.

I think that Satanism does have value in the sense that both these religions do. It is manifest of our social climate. As a race we have done seen the effects of mainstream religions and where they have gotten us. When we practice Satanism we our simply discarding ideas and ways of thinking that have already been tried and we try to shift them to ways that have not been tried. This is how progress is made. If we never change the way we think, the world would still be a flat disc in the center of the universe.

No, you really don’t get it. Religion is about behaving as a group and working towards a common goal. This country wasn’t created by a bunch of self-centered narcissistic fourteen year olds like you. It was created by Christians working as a group over many generations. Christianity gave them the unity to work towards such an abstract goal, gave them the inspiration to make the sacrifices and above all sanctioned the incredible level of violence needed to make the United States of America happen. A group is power, an individual is pathetic, that is One-Eyed Jack’s point about Satanist being limp dicked losers who haven’t done and never will do spit.