[ultima]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

Does the Bible say Divine dictation is how it was written?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

EnigmaticHarpoMarx: "You make a reference to the Earth as an 18 year old kid and that God had to give him memories but I really don't see why God would need to make him that age in the first place. Why couldn't God just start the earth, better yet the whole universe, from the beginning."

Good question. I don't know the intent of God.

Maybe He thought, 2.5 billion years of algae and protozoa before we get to interesting animals...what a bore. I'll just start it with the clock at 4.5 billion minus 6000, and go from there.

Can eternal, omniscient Beings suffer from ADHD? It would explain a lot...

But I jest.

I don't know God's intentions on this. The Bible makes it sound like mankind is the centerpiece of creation, so maybe He just figured nothing that came before man mattered.

Another poster on another thread said that a perfect Being would not need to create the universe. Perfection is self-contained and needs nothing else. I speculated that perhaps a perfect mind might need to externalize the complex elements of its own psyche. It might be a sort of aesthetic requirement of perfection or something.

I'm not perfect (or so my woman-friends tell me), so I can only guess.

If the purpose of God's creation is that psychic externalization, thousands of millennia of single-celled organisms are just irrelevant. Jeez...would you represent your mighty psychic struggle between good and evil as...billions of years of rock slime?

There are good arguments against what I just wrote, too (God is not ADHD, that was a joke; as an eternal and timeless Being it would be all the same to him if man was there at the beginning or if it took 4.5 billion years to get around to man. Or, if God's creation stems from God's perfection, falsity would be excluded...if rocks appear to be billions of years old then that must be true since perfection is truth and not false appearances. Etc.)

I suppose we can only fall back on our faith in the mighty and omniscient God, and assume that -- like the baker who put strychnine in the muffins -- He had His reasons.

~~ OEJ

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

/yawn. No.

Then don't bother posting an argument. I know all that reading must be so strenuous on your little mind but if you struggle through it maybe you'll be caught up with the rest of the class!

[Genisis]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

/yawn. No.

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

atheist who isn't an impressionable self-righteous bible thumping christian.

Isn't that kind of redundant?

As to the rest of your post: Go back and read what previous posters have already said. Specifically the one by One-Eyed Jack. I think you're missing the point of the discussion.

[Genisis]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

Evolution is labeled as theory, but in science, theory is weighed HIGHER than facts are because theories explain facts. There is more than enough evidence for micro and macro evolution all around us. Evolution is happening right now - in E.Coli, fishes, camels, humans, etc. We were eukaryotie cells, we were lobe finned fish, we were reptiles, mammals, and we are cousins of cercopithecoids. That is truth. That is empirical.

What also is truth is how we all originate from the first homo-sapien 200,000 years ago. Scientists know that thanks to mitochonrial DNA. Isn't that amazing how you can purpose a hypothesis, find evidence for it, label it a theory and then be able to explain it? Yep, thanks to the smartest people in the world (who overwhelmingly happen to be atheist) we are able to understand that we all originate from one African woman older than your god.

How does it feel to know that centuries can pass, and you people still practice sun worship? That's all christianity is. What do you think christmas is? You stole that holiday from the pagans. You stole your image of god from the Greeks. Nothing about your religion is remotely original. Your prophet has been said to be able to do the EXACT same thing other prophets were said to do thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Mellenia can pass, and you people still advocate a man written book that speaks on behalf of slavery, misogyny, murder, and torture? You should be ashamed and embarrassed of yourselves.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Look at yourself in the mirror and realize that YOU are what is wrong in this world. There will be no peace until the majority turns atheist. You religious type are waiting days after day for santa claus to come into town, sing a song, and make the rapture happen, sacrificing men and women in the name of your own benefit. Wouldn't this be a little better of a world if we had a president that didn't hear god speak to him and wasn't so willing to send our soldiers to war seeing how he believes they will die and go to heaven?

NOT only war, but the protest and criminalization of stem cell research is killing millions of humans that we could be curing. You know the one family member with cancer? It could be over with. It is virtually impossible to speak in hyperbole of the blessings stem cell research.

I'll leave you with a simple question. I simply ask of you to answer it off the top of your sick, demented head. Hopefully this wont be too hard for you achieve. Where have modern day dogs come from? Was it your god?

[Enigmatic Harpo Marx]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

OEJ:

I understand the point you are trying to make in the link you posted, but I fail to see what God's motive would be.

You make a reference to the Earth as an 18 year old kid and that God had to give him memories but I really don't see why God would need to make him that age in the first place. Why couldn't God just start the earth, better yet the whole universe, from the beginning. Why all the alleged nonsense about making a deceptive past for us? It seems like a whole lot of wasted energy if you think about it. If God did create the world from the beginning then evolution and all of its the fossil records and corbon dating that go along with it would be true. Then it would take even more faith than you Christians have now to believe in God since the scientists would be right.

[Sauron]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

For those who don't know how carbon dating is based, it is based off differential equations which give closed-form solutions that are exact unlike contrived models. Even if some scientists claim that it's only useful dating up to 50000 years, there are more ways than one to determine the age of something. Tidal rhythymites show how quickly the tides rose and fell, or how long the day was. We know that the Earth originally had a 6-hour day and has been steadily slowing. This slowing rotation can be measured by how fast the Moon's orbit is widening every year, which is not slowing.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

I posted in another thread to explain the Creationist view that it is impossible to distinguish a newly-created but ancient-appearing Earth from a genuinely ancient one. See this post: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showp...90&postcount=5

As to positive evidence for creationism, it is very difficult to see how the actions of God could be documented in the fossil record if His intent was to create an ancient-seeming world right from the get-go. If He intended to hide his fingerprints and make the world natural-seeming, then -- being of course omnipotent -- He could do it.

As with much in Christian theology, the faithful believe creationism because, well, we are the people of faith! The people of reason are across the room examining fossils and checking isotopic ratios.

So to speak.

If you want more discussion I will oblige if I can...but read the post linked above to get an idea of what you deal with when you deal with Christian faith in creationism. Please.

Very tired and ready to drift off to sleep in the arms of Jesus,

~~ OEJ

[Roger_Clark_Smith]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

I've noticed many insults and mindless arguing and very little thoughtful debate in this thread.

I would like to address one point that many Christians like to make about evolution. The first point is that it can't be seen. Which is correct, Evolution does not just happen in an instant. This process takes million of years to develop and finalize. Evolution is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. Of course, none of us live long enough to observe this process begin and finish, yet we can look back. This a list of fossils found that seem to have a relation to primates and to modern-day humans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ominin_fossils

I understand many of you will disagree with my statement of evolution taking millions of years, as you believe the earth is 6,000 years old. Yet, there is much evidence supporting the idea of the earth being AT LEAST 4 billion years old. I see no evidence of the Earth being 6,000 years old.

The other point I am seeing quite frequently is the fact that evolution is a theory. That is correct, it is a theory, but that doesn't make it completely wrong. Gravity is a theory, it is not a law, does that make it wrong? Gravity used to be considered a law yet when Black Holes were discovered, the same Law of Gravity does not apply to them so it is no longer a law. A scientific theory is not 100% yet to have it be a theory is must be accepted by most of the scientific community, which it is. New evidence of Evolution is being found all the time, so it cannot be made a law quite yet.

Also, I see many of you will put the burden of proof on those supporting Evolution. Yet, when they bring in some facts then you completely shoot them down with no facts at all to back your statements. Yes, I do not believe in God, but I am not narrow-minded and if someone can bring a good, supported argument backed up with evidence, then I will be glad to listen.

[Ahimaaz Smith]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

You completely deny the fact of evolution and dont think "well maybe it happened" So therefore you are narrowminded and cant possibly think for yourselves.

As opposed to all of the athiests and liberal Christians who deny the creation in six days instead of thinking well, it may have happened? Who does their thinking for them?

What fact do you have that the bible is correct?

Prophecy. There are many predictions in the Bible that nobody could have known 3,000 years ago, but that have come true (e.g., the formation of the State of Israel in 1948!).

Yet there is not a single case of a prophecy in the Bible that has proved false. What fact do you have that the Bible is incorrect? Name one prophecy that was wrong and I will concede that the entire Bible is garbage.

You suggest God gave divine dictation. So the bible was written by man, and man is liable to make mistakes.

The Bible was inspired by God. Surely God wouldn't go through the trouble of inspiring a book if he was just going to let it be corrupted by human hands. That's just illogical.

For us who believe in evolution, we have evidence such as fossil records, core samples, and carbon dating to understand how old the world is. Since your Bible was written by man.

I was a biologist before I was saved, so I do know a thing or two about the science (the shabby state of the evidence for evolution is one of the reasons that I was saved).

If you had a clue what you were talking about, you would know that even the secular geologists say that carbon dating is only useful to date samples back to 50,000 years, so no way can carbon dating prove the Earth is billions of years old.

The big problem with radiological dating generally is that it all assumes that the rate of decay of radioactive elements has remained constant. How can we possibly know that? Geiger counters have only been around for 100 years or so.

As for fossils, we don't deny that there are animals that went extinct. Many did in the Great Flood. Others have gone extinct more recently, e.g., the dodo (last seen by Pacific Islanders in the late 1660's) and the unicorn (last seen by the prophet Isaiah around 800 BC).

I'm not exactly sure what core samples have to do with the age of the Earth, could you please elaborate?

Look at a map of the world, notice how if you put all the continents together they fit like a jig-saw. Tectonic plates are moving, always.. slowly but surely, at milla meters a year. And its not the devil doing it. Now if you do basic math, lets just take the length of the ocean, and work backwards.. You can see it takes WAY over 6000 years for those plates to move back to their original location.

God created a single continent (what modern geologists call Pangea, though they are wrong about the timing by a billion years or so). That continent split apart into the several continents we see today when God opened the gates of the Earth to let the flood waters rise at the time of Noah. If there had been multiple continents back then, then how would Noah's sons have been able to collect the animals from the other continents? It would have been impossible.

How does he know the world is 6000 years old? Where is his proof? Please quote where it says exactly how old Adam was in the bible and his offspring, and then tell me how you got an accurate number on how old the earth is. Have you ever read the bible? Your so silly you dont even know what your talking about.

Yes, we have read the Bible. Have you? If so, then why do you need us to point this out to you?

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.... Genesis 5:5

James Ussher added up all of the generations in the Bible, and came up with creation starting on October 23, 4004 BC. He published his results in a massive work, The Annals of the World, in 1658. It's all set forth there in great detail. What part of his argument do you disagree with?

Anyway, it's very clear from the Bible that the Earth is nowhere near four billion years old:

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17

And since you have a good amount of fur, why dont you share some and help a little kid?

Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot. Jesus did not mean for us to spend all of our time or all of our money on the poor: For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good.... Mark 14:7

Bitch.

You aren't a Christian, you are a mysogenist bigot, and I'm sure you will be banned momentarily. You're just like all of the other people who, knowing that they have no evidence to back up their arguments, resort to name calling. Sister Mary Maria is one of the kindest persons I know. You, obviously, are not.

But in the eyes of god all children are innocent.

How do you know that? That's not what the Bible says.

Go watch more Joel Osteen on tv and say praise him for all his money he has and his giant golden globe he stands behind.

Joel Osteen is a con man who makes his money by convincing poor people that the way to become rich is to send their money to him. He doesn't save souls, he saves receipts.

I was raised in a Christian family, and because of how narrow minded everyone of you is, it has pushed me away from the religion.

It sounds like your real problem is with God and the Bible, not with us.

[Mrs. Mary Whitford]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

Dont ban me, I want to have a talk with all of you.

Instead of wasting money on a oversized house that could fit plently of people, move into a smaller house and donate that money you would have spent on your too-big-of-a-house towards a needy family. B***h.

You ugly racist b***h.

"Don't ban me, I want to have a talk with all of you." If you had stayed civil, there wouldn't have been an issue, but you couldn't even make it through one post without sin grabbing hold of you and making you type out obscenities.

I'll pray for you, but I'm also going to ban you. Goodbye.

[not_your_god]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

Dont ban me, I want to have a talk with all of you.

First off, I feel sorry for how you "True Christian's" have no idea how to have an intelligent debate. Someone asks you a question that could possibly help their understand of the universe, evolution, and God. You completely deny the fact of evolution and dont think "well maybe it happened" So therefore you are narrowminded and cant possibly think for yourselves. And instead of helping them you simply throw false idea's at them and tell them to prove their points with fact. Which they do, but you still ingore and call them a demon. So let me ask you this...

What fact do you have that the bible is correct?

You suggest God gave divine dictation. So the bible was written by man, and man is liable to make mistakes. A simple mistake could be how we intrepret what the authors wrote down and what we think they mean. The bible was written thousands of years ago and with a complete different society and idealogy, the reference's in the bible back then could have a different meaning. But since you were born into this religion you automatically accept what you here and dont try to figure things out for yourself, therefore you are weak-minded. Since the bible was written by man and not directly from god, you people are fool's for follow its text word for word. You use it to make law's without intrepreting anything for yourself, instead you should use it as a guideline.

We have a book dictated by God. We have two thousand years of documented, irrefutable proof of the power of Christ and his wonderous miracles. You eviloutionists are a joke. Once you can explain to me how Christ walked on water or raised people from the dead I might take you a little more serious.

What proof? Show me this proof. And what are you talking about, Christ walking on water or raising people from the dead has no relevance to Evolution. So next time dont bring up something that has nothing to to with the topic.

God Himself gave us the Holy KJV1611 Bible.

God using divine dictation.

You say god handed us the bible, Sister Maria says god dictated it to us. Which one is it, two members of the same community have a different idea.



For us who believe in evolution, we have evidence such as fossil records, core samples, and carbon dating to understand how old the world is. Since your Bible was written by man.

How does he know the world is 6000 years old? Where is his proof?

Here is something simple to let you know the world is over 6000 years old.
Look at a map of the world, notice how if you put all the continents together they fit like a jig-saw. Tectonic plates are moving, always.. slowly but surely, at milla meters a year. And its not the devil doing it. Now if you do basic math, lets just take the length of the ocean, and work backwards.. You can see it takes WAY over 6000 years for those plates to move back to their original location. Easily from observing this, you can tell the world is older then you say it is.

If y'all read the amount of years lived by Adam, Methuselah, and such, you get the exact amount of years.
Have you ever read the bible, honey, or are y'all another like that Ultima silly thing?

Please quote where it says exactly how old Adam was in the bible and his offspring, and then tell me how you got an accurate number on how old the earth is. Have you ever read the bible? Your so silly you dont even know what your talking about.

Then I found the Lord, and now I live in a large, well heated house and when I leave it, I make sure I wear a good amount of furs modestly covering as much of me as possible, and I haven't had a cold in ages!

You might not have a cold, but there are poor little kids who do have colds. And since you have a good amount of fur, why dont you share some and help a little kid? Or is it just up to god to help keep that kid warm? Because God would want you to help someone. But no, you would rather just stay warm inside your big house that is probably too big for you. Instead of wasting money on a oversized house that could fit plently of people, move into a smaller house and donate that money you would have spent on your too-big-of-a-house towards a needy family. Bitch.

Sister Maria you also think your better then Nigra's and Indians. People were born into that race just as you were. So how could you judge someone who had no choice of their color? You ugly racist bitch. God wants you to be kind and caring to everyone.


Bobby-joe assumes that a child never exposed to religion will go to hell. But in the eyes of god all children are innocent. So your idea is wrong billy joe. How could God be so negative to someone who never even had the fair chance to understand religion like you? He could be the most kind, caring, loving person to his family and the world. He could have sacrificed his own body to save someone close to him, but yet since he doesnt know Jesus as his savior he will spend a eternity in hell.

That's rich coming from a troll who worships a queer video game invented by chinks.

I am a True Christian™ Pastor, and it is my duty to rebuke demons like you. Anything I say can be backed up with a little research on your part.

Wrong, your duty as a True Pastor is to spread the word of god, and the life and teachings of Jesus. You are not the hand of god who smites us down. Only God will deside our fate. And by the way you talk and think your better then most people by calling someone a chink, I think god will slap you in the face. He might let you in to heaven, but your going to stand in the corner with the rest of the dumbasses.

Every member on this website makes me sick. You force us to prove our facts with evidence, but you cannot do the same thing to prove your idea's. Hypocrits. Go watch more Joel Osteen on tv and say praise him for all his money he has and his giant golden globe he stands behind.

Which reminds me, I love how alot of churches try make things look fancy by WASTING money that could feed a random family. Go have service outside in the world that God gave you.

I was raised in a Christian family, and because of how narrow minded everyone of you is, it has pushed me away from the religion. I believe in god and believed he created everything through the process of evolution. And I might even believe in Jesus Christ. But I surely dont believe how you people can lecture back to us about nothing have no actual knowledge of. Just words from a book written by a imperfect human being.

[RebelWithACause]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

I noticed that when in a topic someone mentions evolution, most reactions quickly become agressive, but also uninformed. Believing in evolution doesn't necisarely mean God doesn't exist. God could have also created the first animals, wich later evolved into new animals.

One of the things angry people around here say, is that evolution happened in one or two generations (a.i., a monkey gave birth to a human.), wich is not what the evolution theory says. It says that slowly, over thousands of generations the monkey-race turned into humans.

The reason as to why animals evolve is also easily explainable. Example:
A group of rodents is split in two by an act of nature, for example a river. The two groups now can't mate with each other, and continue on on seperate ways. One group keeps living the same way as they did before, just finding random fruit and plants on the ground. The other group has more trouble finding the same food, and now has to dig underground for food. Over time the digging group gets better at digging and grows better claws. The other group just keeps living like they did before and evolve whatever is useful for that kind of lifestyle. This proces goes on until the two groups cannot mate with each other anymore, even if they were put back together anymore -> they are now two seperate species of animals.

Above stuff happening is a matter of luck, or to those of you that don't believe in luck, I guess it could be because of God wanting it. But seriously people, don't scream random jibberish all the time, it makes you look stupid.

Well, nice way to ban my account I guess. Cheers.

actually proto-apes, monkeys are a divergence off the human line, as are gorillas and babboons. Also the invverse is true, our species ancestors are a divergence of the monkey/great ape line.

[Sauron]

Re: Hello, I noticed that many of you don't understand evolution.

Though no concrete proof exists for evolution with respect to the origin of species, you can observe evolution in action. The most common example is that of pesticide resistance. The reason why we have to keep developing new pesticides is because the insects keep developing resistances to them, but this doesn't happen magically. Because of genetic variation, a small percentage of insects are naturally resistant to a given pesticide. If you kill the ones that aren't resistant, that small percentage of resistant insects are the only ones that will reproduce, and then the entire population is resistant.