[Angel of Light]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

Rev. Rodimer, you're correct that Brother TD is insisting that the Bible states that the Earth is both a flat square and a flat circle, but if you have enough faith, you will see that this isn't a contradiction at all!

Let me bring up a similar conundrum, one that I'm sure everybody here is familiar since Godmockers bring it up all the time and attempt to trip us up with it. I'm speaking of the Paradox of the Stone, of course. Now, I know that you're aware that I've personally addressed this supposed paradox a few times on this forum, but I will restate it for the benefit of any atheists and Godhaters that may be lurking about here.

The Paradox of the Stone is a question. "Could an omnipotent being (God) create a stone so heavy even He cannot lift it?" If so, then because He's not able to lift the stone, than He's not omnipotent. If not, then there is something that He cannot do, and therefore He is not omnipotent.

The problem with this argument (and your's, coincidentally!) presupposes the fact that God is not omnipotent, because it implies that God is less powerful than rationality and logic, and an omnipotent being cannot be less powerful than anything, including rationality and logic.

Now, we know the God of the Bible is omnipotent, because the KJV Bible specifically says so. I refer you to this verse (that I previously posted in this thread).

"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Revelation 19:6

Now, if you take this verse literally (which everybody should!), it implies that God is omnipotent, and is not bound by the laws of logic and rationality.

Applying this to the Paradox of the Stone, we see that God can easily create a stone too heavy for Him to lift, and then proceed to lift it with ease. He can also make 2+2=5, four-sided triangles, and the Earth be both a flat square and a flat circle.

On the other hand, if we refuse to accept this definition of omnipotence, then God, as He represents Himself in the Bible, becomes an impossibility, simply because He could not exist if He were bound by rationality and logic, and your idea that the Earth cannot be both a square and a circle would have been one of the things that killed Him.

Praise Jesus we live in a world where the actions of God aren't dictated by rationality!

You claim that God isn't dictated by rationality, but you forget; According to the Bible, God is omnipresent. In order for something to exist in the universe, it must abide by logic and rationality. For example;

Premise 1: God is conscious

Premise 2: God is timeless

Premise 3: Consciousness is a process that is sequential in nature, and sequentiality is contingent upon time.

Conclusion: God cannot be conscious. Therefore, God does not exist

In Premise 1, we take that Bible's word that God is, quite simply, conscious, and capable of thought and reason.

In Premise 2, we know that God is timeless because the Bible says he is outside of Time.

In premise 3, we know that time is basically a measurement of sequential relations, and consciousness is a state that requires one to be able to mentally adapt, to change and interact: All of these require time, as something completely immutable cannot change, adapt nor interact.

In conclusion, we must assume that God does not exist or is not conscious. The implications of either conclusion is stark.

The first conclusion is obvious, but let us imagine that god is not conscious:

• Imagine that you are looking at timelessness, what is "outside" our universe - God's territory.
• God cannot be seen because he is not physical (he is a nonphysical being, spirit or consciousness) and he can't be heard, touched, felt etc because of that reason.
• The only thing that makes God what he is, is his consciousness. Now imagine that his consciousness is completely immutable. If we are to use the analogy of a movie, his consciousness would be a still frame picture, except that you can't see the photo because he isn't physical.
• Notice how God is synonymous with nothing?

[James Hutchins]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

I am shocked to say the least!

The Bible clearly states the shape of the Earth and the construction of the Heavens about. How dare you have a poll suggesting God is wrong!

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

If your faith is strong, it shouldn't matter what you see from a plane. I believe what the Bible tells me to believe without regard for evidence or the five senses. And the Bible says that the Earth is a flat, round-but-square, pancake-like rectilinear sheet set on pillars above water! I suppose next we are to question the resurrection solely based on the fact that there is no evidence for it.

[Angel of Light]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

If your faith is strong, it shouldn't matter what you see from a plane. I believe what the Bible tells me to believe without regard for evidence or the five senses. And the Bible says that the Earth is a flat, round-but-square, pancake-like rectilinear sheet set on pillars above water! I suppose next we are to question the resurrection solely based on the fact that there is no evidence for it.

You're right. Besides the fact that no human has ever risen from the grave, and such.

[True Disciple]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

In order for something to exist in the universe, it must abide by logic and rationality.

I've never read that in the Bible. Of course, when you make up your own "rules" the universe must "abide by," then you can "prove" God doesn't exist.

[I-Hate-Juice]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

I´m feeling so dizzy in my head ATM

Reading thru the whole discussion which TD and Rodimer are having, I must say that my knowledge of the Scriptures is so puny in comparisson to these two verbal acrobates and geniuses. I can only establish my own believes in the interpretation which I have made years ago, that the earth is flat and has four courners.

I really can´t even decide if the earth is flat and more like a square, as to being flat and a circle. So I´ve always just assumed, based on the Scriptures which I´ve studied, that the earth is flat and is a hybrid of a square and a circle.

God is so powerful and His creations so amazing , that the actual shape and form of our earth, might even be too complex for us mere mortals to comprehend.

YiC
Paavali

[Dr. Isaiah Jones]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

I have to say that I'm not really sure about this whole thing. If we listen to secular scientists the Earth could be floating in space, round like a football. But then again, secular scientists lie all the time.

On the other hand, if we look at the scriptures they clearly tell us that the Earth has four corners, edges, pillars, etc. Even so it still doesn't literally say that the Earth is flat. But certain passages do indeed imply that it is.

My conclusion is that the Flat-Earth theory is just as much valid as the Round-Earth theory. Neither can be proven nor disproved since nobody has actually seen the Earth from space. Everyone who claims the contrary is a liar and a fraud.

That being said, my trust lies within the scriptures rather than secular science.

YIC,
Dr. Isaiah Jones, Ph.D.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

My conclusion is that the Flat-Earth theory is just as much valid as the Round-Earth theory. Neither can be proven nor disproved since nobody has actually seen the Earth from space. Everyone who claims the contrary is a liar and a fraud.

It's a shame you don't pay attention -- say, to the link in my original post. I have personally seen the Earth from space.

I do hope you are not calling me a liar and a fraud.

[Dr. Isaiah Jones]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

It's a shame you don't pay attention -- say, to the link in my original post. I have personally seen the Earth from space.

I do hope you are not calling me a liar and a fraud.

We know that space travel is impossible. You have been deceived, my dear friend, and thus you have strayed away from the path of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and adopted the views of secular science over Biblical truth.

You will be in my prayers, but I'm afraid that you might be becoming a lost cause.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

You claim that God isn't dictated by rationality, but you forget; According to the Bible, God is omnipresent. In order for something to exist in the universe, it must abide by logic and rationality. For example;

Premise 1: God is conscious

Premise 2: God is timeless

Premise 3: Consciousness is a process that is sequential in nature, and sequentiality is contingent upon time.

Conclusion: God cannot be conscious. Therefore, God does not exist blah blah I hate Jesus blah[/LIST]

Faith is not based on elegant logic games. The church fathers understood their is no reasoning when it comes to God. Now wonder you were banned.

[Holyfield]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

The Bible describes the Universe correctly.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v6/n1/young-universe-video

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

The Bible describes the Universe correctly.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...universe-video

I should have mentioned this video months ago; I don't know what I was thinking, forgetting it. Why, the mothers in my congregation use that very video in homeschooling their youngsters.

We've been trying to get Dr. Lisle to come for a visit for a year now. Seems we don't have a large enough donation audience for him.

[Holyfield]

Re: Poll: Shape of the Earth?

The atheists will do anything to discredit the Bible and Christian beliefs.

Who invented the idea of a flat Earth?