[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi there, A kind correction!

Welcome to our friendly forums. Since we risk having a blasphemous Mormon in the Godly White House, I'm most curious about your cult. Tell me, if you would, since Paul's vision was so convincing, why do you believe Joseph Smith's? Why not Mohammed? Heck, why not Zoroaster or the Buddha? What makes Smith so special when he did the same thing everyone else did - copy the Apostle Paul's glorious miraculous, totally believable vision that no one else could see nor show evidence for, and make it their own?

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Well, well another cherry picking John 3:16. How about we skip ahead to John 3:18.



So tell us more about this "planet" God lives on? Mormonism sounds more like Star Track to me than a religion.

I'm sorry if I offended you by choosing John 3:16. I just love the hope for all mankind found in said scripture.

I also love John 3:18. I too believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I'm glad we agree on that.

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi there, A kind correction!

Welcome to our friendly forums. Since we risk having a blasphemous Mormon in the Godly White House, I'm most curious about your cult. Tell me, if you would, since Paul's vision was so convincing, why do you believe Joseph Smith's? Why not Mohammed? Heck, why not Zoroaster or the Buddha? What makes Smith so special when he did the same thing everyone else did - copy the Apostle Paul's glorious miraculous, totally believable vision that no one else could see nor show evidence for, and make it their own?

Hi Mary - beautiful name by the way -

That is one of the best questions I've heard in a long time. The way I know, and the only way anyone can know the truth, is through prayer. After reading and studying Joseph Smith's words and revelations, I prayed with real intent to know if they were true. I then felt such a calming feeling and the Holy Ghost testified to my heart, with undeniable force, the that it was true. Similarly to the following verses (paraphrased of course):

Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, Neh. 9:20
There is another that beareth witness of me, John 5:32 (Acts 5:32).
when the Comforter is come … he shall testify of me, John 15:26
they were pricked in their heart, Acts 2:37 (Acts 2:41).
things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God, 1 Cor. 2:11
no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, 1 Cor. 12:3

[John Creeser]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I'm sorry if I offended you by choosing John 3:16. I just love the hope for all mankind found in said scripture.

I also love John 3:18. I too believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I'm glad we agree on that.

I've a bit of a knee jerk reaction to John 3:16, it's usually the passage uttered by fluffy bunny liberal Christians who think God is all about love. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

[Roberta]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Did you know the LDS believe in mormon cosmetology? Tammi Faye was a renown devotee during her TV career.

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I find myself somewhat skeptical that someone can claim to be a Christian and believe Christ and the Devil are brothers (what is that Quadinity? God, Holy Spirit, Christ and the Devil) However Jesus has clearly given Mitt Romney the nod to be the next president of the United States and save this Godly nation from the evils of socialism and gay marriage. Since it is One Savior, One Vote with us TRUE Christians I am prepared to accept Mormons as provisional Christians.

That being said I am curious to hear what social program are you looking forward to being eliminated during Mitt Romney's first 100 days? Hot School lunches is my personal favorite.

Hi Bobby Joe -

Can I first address your question regarding my belief in Christ? Please allow me to quote from our Bible Dictionary regarding Christ:

"Christ. The anointed (Gk.) or Messiah (Heb.). Jesus, who is called Christ, is the firstborn of the Father in the spirit and the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is Jehovah, and was foreordained to his great calling in the Grand Councils before the world was. He was born of Mary at Bethlehem, lived a sinless life, and wrought out a perfect atonement for all mankind by the shedding of his blood and his death on the cross. He rose from the grave and brought to pass the bodily resurrection of every living thing and the salvation and exaltation of the faithful.

He is the greatest Being to be born on this earth—the perfect example—and all religious things should be done in his name. He is Lord of lords, King of kings, the Creator, the Savior, the God of the whole earth, the Captain of our salvation, the Bright and Morning Star. He is in all things, above all things, through all things, and round about all things; he is Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; his name is above every name, and is the only name under heaven by which we can be saved.

He will come again in power and glory to dwell on the earth, and will stand as Judge of all mankind at the last day."

As for politics, I agree that we should spend less than we bring in. I personally think that term limits should be created for members of congress - thus also eliminating the billions in future pensions.

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I've a bit of a knee jerk reaction to John 3:16, it's usually the passage uttered by fluffy bunny liberal Christians who think God is all about love. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

So true. I definitely fear God and trust in him completely. Those are some great passages.

I think that when people loose their fear of God, that they then allow themselves to believe in 'subjective truth' - or that sin is only sin if one feels that it is. That too is so far from the truth! I think this subjective truth syndrome is why so many people feel they can do anything in life without consequence.

Thanks

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Did you know the LDS believe in mormon cosmetology? Tammi Faye was a renown devotee during her TV career.

Hi Roberta,

Thanks for your reply. I've been a member of my church since childhood and can assure you that we don't practice or believe in astrology. We do not accept any revelation that does not come directly from God.

However, as for Tammi Faye - I didn't know that! I went to law school in Florida and happened to see her in a restaurant once - that's all I know about her though

[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

...Please allow me to quote from our Bible Dictionary regarding Christ:

"Christ. The anointed (Gk.) or Messiah (Heb.). Jesus, who is called Christ, is the firstborn of the Father in the spirit and the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is Jehovah...he is Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; his name is above every name, and is the only name under heaven by which we can be saved...

Ok, that all agrees with John 10:30.

But this doesn't:

...I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17)..

Unless God =/= Jesus. Please clarify.

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Ok, that all agrees with John 10:30.

But this doesn't:



Unless God =/= Jesus. Please clarify.

Great Question. Now before I give my interpretation of scripture - I want to again state that I'm not doing it to try to say you're wrong - but rather to simply let you know why I believe the way I do.

First, I've always loved the scriptures speaking of when Christ was baptized. However, it taught me more than the fact that we need to be baptized as Christ was in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Here's what it says in Matthew 3:16-17:

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

To me, this teaches also that Christ was near the water, the Holy Ghost was descending like a dove, and the God spoke from Heaven - all at the same time as three distinct personages.

not mine to give, but … of my Father, Matt. 20:23
not as I will, but as thou wilt, Matt. 26:39
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Matt. 28:19.
called the Son of the Highest, Luke 1:32
Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove, Luke 3:22
Son can do nothing … but what he seeth the Father do, John 5:19
Father that sent me beareth witness of me, John 8:18
a voice from heaven, saying, I have … glorified it, John 12:28
my Father is greater than I, John 14:28
that they might know thee the only true God, John 17:3
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, John 20:17
being by the right hand of God exalted, Acts 2:33
saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Acts 7:55
not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, Acts 17:29
even his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20
Christ, who is the image of God, 2 Cor. 4:4
I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord, Eph. 3:14
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Heb. 1:2
three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, 1 Jn. 5:7

Now as for God and Christ being "one" - I personally believe that these scriptures speak of being "one" in purpose - or in perfect harmony. I believe this because of how Christ described it in John 17:21:

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Or how Moses explained how it could be used in Genesis 2:24

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So again, this is not to challenge your beliefs, but to simply answer the question and explain why I believe the way I do about the Godhead.

Thanks!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi Bobby Joe -

Can I first address your question regarding my belief in Christ? Please allow me to quote from our Bible Dictionary regarding Christ:

I was less a question and more of statement. I can see how a quite conventional argument can be made that Christ and Satan are brothers. After all Satan is an angel, angels are extensions of God. It can't be agreed the same is true of Christ. One of those "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" questions.

Really, my question is why would any sane person want to equate Satan with Christ? The Old Testament shows God is more than willing go wrathful on His creation for any old sin. I would think it's best to no remind the Almighty of that. Don't you agree?

As for politics, I agree that we should spend less than we bring in. I personally think that term limits should be created for members of congress - thus also eliminating the billions in future pensions.

So you feel Romney as president (which is a sure thing next November) will embrace shared sacrifice programs like service cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

...So again, this is not to challenge your beliefs, but to simply answer the question and explain why I believe the way I do about the Godhead...

Don't worry about challenging my beliefs.

But I am curious as to how you reconcile all those Scriptures with John 10:30.

Thanks!

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

I was less a question and more of statement. I can see how a quite conventional argument can be made that Christ and Satan are brothers. After all Satan is an angel, angels are extensions of God. It can't be agreed the same is true of Christ. One of those "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" questions.

Really, my question is why would any sane person want to equate Satan with Christ? The Old Testament shows God is more than willing go wrathful on His creation for any old sin. I would think it's best to no remind the Almighty of that. Don't you agree?


So you feel Romney as president (which is a sure thing next November) will embrace shared sacrifice programs like service cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich?

Honestly, its never been taught in our church the way it is phrased in regards to Christ and Satan being brothers - rather it is a logical deduction from what is taught - I think its phrased that way by members outside of our church for shock value. I don't mean that towards you- because I know that you have been told that line.

As my above post reads, we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. If a Son, then a brother to other sons - such as Lucifer. Isaiah 14:12.

Make sense? I know you likely won't agree, but do you see why we believe such from our interpretation of biblical scripture?

Thanks!

[cody johnson]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Don't worry about challenging my beliefs.

But I am curious as to how you reconcile all those Scriptures with John 10:30.

Thanks!

Hello again,

Well, honestly, I reconcile it with the scriptures I've cited in the above post. Christ explains that we all can become one with He and the Father. This does not mean that we will literally become part of the Godhead, but rather that we will be perfect in unity and purpose after we are perfected through Christ. Also, as my other scripture cites, when we are married we don't literally become one personage, but rather we are supposed to become perfect in unity and purpose. Sort of like the old motto - "an army of one"

To me, that makes sense since it would confuse me if God prayed to himself, begat himself, referred to himself as his own Son and later as his own Father. It would be confusing why when the Prophets have seen them, that God would split himself into two personages and stand by his own right hand. It would be confusing that he would not do as he wants, but as his Father wants - even though he is his own father. It would also be confusing why he would ask himself to take the bitter cup from himself.

However, I digress. To me, it is much easier to reconcile them being one in purpose and unity rather than body given all the scriptures I've cited.

Finally, I completely believe Christ himself when he said in Luke 24:36-43:

36 ¶And as they thus spake, Jesus himself astood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, bPeace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Why Mormons are NOT Christians

Hi Mary - beautiful name by the way -

Why thank you, dear.

That is one of the best questions I've heard in a long time. The way I know, and the only way anyone can know the truth, is through prayer. After reading and studying Joseph Smith's words and revelations, I prayed with real intent to know if they were true. I then felt such a calming feeling and the Holy Ghost testified to my heart, with undeniable force, the that it was true.

Interestingly, the same thing happens to other people when finding out if the real Christian scriptures are true. Your testimony of such a calming feeling isn't unique to Mormonism, so I can't help but wonder if it was a figment of your imagination. How do you know it's not? Have you tried praying to Jesus of the Holy Bible? If you have a truly open heart He will reveal to you that He is part of the Holy Trinity, not a "spirit brother" to Lucifer or anyone else, there is no "Heavenly Mother," and that people don't become reincarnated as gods and goddesses after death. Besides, who wants to work for eternity when they can sing the praises of God for ever and ever!