[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

I think it's been established that he did fear death,

Why did he call a Catholic priest to pray for him? Why specifically someone of that belief since his family was Jewish and went to Lutheran schools?

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Dear Friend,

How do you determine if conversions from other religions to Catholicism provide evidence for the "superiority" of the Catholic cult? Do your count on Prestige, numbers, or some other measurable variable? Do converts from Catholicism to other (sometimes True™) religions count as counter-evidence?

Some examples of the latter.

Our Wise Vice President Mr. Pence converted from Catholicism to Evangelical Christianity (Praise Jesus!). Based on your reliance on anecdotal evidence this proves that Evengelical Faith™ is better.
Madeleine Albright, the former Secretary of State, was also raised a Catholic but turned Episcopalian. She also has a PhD so she is very well qualified to assess different religions and make an unbiased decision which denomination to choose.

As you can see, anecdotal evidence can almost always go both ways. It may serve as a hypothesis but not as evidence. You have to gather lots and lots of narratives to make a database that will eventually have some statistical significance. Maybe. Or the hypothesis may be proven wrong. The Book of Psalms knows that fame per se will not stand against the Power of God.

Psalms 136:17-18
To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

What about Glenn Beck, a man of exceptional insight. He turned away from Catholicism and chose the Mormon faith (well, it is no worse than his original denomination).

Do these anecdotes represent as good evidence as the John von Neumann narrative in your opinion? Do you understand what I am trying to tell you here?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

Pence, Beck and Albright are not in the same league as the individuals I mentioned. Please investigate the life of John von Neumann.

[Didymus Much]

Re: False Religions And Cults

...But if he feared death...

I think it's been established that he did fear death, as the witness to that is the same priest who gave him the last rights, Father Anselm Strittmatter, O.S.B. (per Prisoner's Dilemma by William Poundstone (1993), p.194).

The question is not about what religious tradition he called for comfort in his distress. The question is why would someone who actually believed that God was waiting for him would have that fear.

No True Christian™ does.

The only conclusion is that he didn't believe that Heaven was in the cards, that maybe he (and his lineage) had been wrong for the past 1922 years, or that maybe the priest didn't really have the power to forgive his sins (anyone who worked on the Manhattan Project must have carried a huge measure of guilt), i.e. still 100% agnostic.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: False Religions And Cults

No. He was in full control of his faculties when he called for a Catholic priest at his deathbed.

That's not what his friends said. And since we cannot prove one way or another beyond reasonable doubt, your argument is invalid and if you keep using it you'll be venturing into the realm of alternative facts. Which isn't really a new territory for you, so you should be fine.

It is true though, that he did fear death. But if he feared death, why did he not ask a rabbi or a Baptist minister to say the prayers at his sickbed? he could have called anyone to pray for him, including a Methodist minister, an Anglican priest, a Lutheran minister, a Buddhist monk, a Hindhu guru, a Muslim imam, a Unitarian preacher, etc... Of course, he was not the only one who wanted a Catholic burial and then was libeled for doing so. World chess champion Bobby Fischer had a Catholic burial. There was a time in his life when he did appear to be somewhat unhinged, but toward the end of his life, he spent a whole lot of time in a library in Iceland reading and studying various issues. And of course the chief rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli converted to Catholicism and as a result there was an outcry of his being a traitor. In fact, there was a whole book written against him, slandering his name and reputation and that of his family.

And there are scores of people who escaped and are escaping and will be escaping from Catholicism towards something else, be it atheism, Buddhism, Baptism or something else. And there were millions of others who had to convert to Catholicism or face death. It's called extirpation of idolatry; look it up when you get a chance.

Please remind me, what's your point? Are you trying to use a variation of the argument "let's eat excrement; billions of flies cannot be wrong?"

The homemade wine I have tasted in Eastern Europe was somewhat watery and unlike the wine which is sold in stores. Slivovitz or fruit brandy, made from plums, is much stronger.

I am unsure what is the relation between this lump of factoids with the preceding post by Ms. Handmaiden?

How about that homework I gave you about reading some real scientific articles instead of anecdotal factoids? Or should I assume that you are actually mentally incapable of doing so? I mean, I don't think so, you write grammatically, so what's wrong with you?

Many peer reviewed articles have been proven later to be false.

Indeed. That's exactly what makes science, science. Now get to that homework.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: False Religions And Cults

No. He was in full control of his faculties when he called for a Catholic priest at his deathbed. It is true though, that he did fear death. But if he feared death, why did he not ask a rabbi or a Baptist minister to say the prayers at his sickbed? he could have called anyone to pray for him, including a Methodist minister, an Anglican priest, a Lutheran minister, a Buddhist monk, a Hindhu guru, a Muslim imam, a Unitarian preacher, etc... Of course, he was not the only one who wanted a Catholic burial and then was libeled for doing so. World chess champion Bobby Fischer had a Catholic burial. There was a time in his life when he did appear to be somewhat unhinged, but toward the end of his life, he spent a whole lot of time in a library in Iceland reading and studying various issues. And of course the chief rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli converted to Catholicism and as a result there was an outcry of his being a traitor. In fact, there was a whole book written against him, slandering his name and reputation and that of his family.

Dear Friend,

How do you determine if conversions from other religions to Catholicism provide evidence for the "superiority" of the Catholic cult? Do your count on Prestige, numbers, or some other measurable variable? Do converts from Catholicism to other (sometimes True™) religions count as counter-evidence?

Some examples of the latter.

Our Wise Vice President Mr. Pence converted from Catholicism to Evangelical Christianity (Praise Jesus!). Based on your reliance on anecdotal evidence this proves that Evengelical Faith™ is better.

Pence was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and attended private schools, belonging to what he once described as a large Irish family that celebrated the 1960 election of Democrat John F. Kennedy.
In an interview with CBN in 2010 while still a member of Congress, Pence explained that he had a deep spiritual conversion in college that eventually led him to become an evangelical.
"I began to meet young men and women who talked about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and while I cherish my Catholic upbringing and the foundation that it poured in my faith, that had not been a part of my experience," said Pence to CBN.
"Standing at a Christian music festival in Asbury, Ky., in the spring of 1978, I gave my life to Jesus Christ and that's changed everything."

Madeleine Albright, the former Secretary of State, was also raised a Catholic but turned Episcopalian. She also has a PhD so she is very well qualified to assess different religions and make an unbiased decision which denomination to choose.

As you can see, anecdotal evidence can almost always go both ways. It may serve as a hypothesis but not as evidence. You have to gather lots and lots of narratives to make a database that will eventually have some statistical significance. Maybe. Or the hypothesis may be proven wrong. The Book of Psalms knows that fame per se will not stand against the Power of God.

Psalms 136:17-18
To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

What about Glenn Beck, a man of exceptional insight. He turned away from Catholicism and chose the Mormon faith (well, it is no worse than his original denomination).

Do these anecdotes represent as good evidence as the John von Neumann narrative in your opinion? Do you understand what I am trying to tell you here?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Not a peer-reviewed source.

Many peer reviewed articles have been proven later to be false.

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Wine has been around for a long time.

The homemade wine I have tasted in Eastern Europe was somewhat watery and unlike the wine which is sold in stores. Slivovitz or fruit brandy, made from plums, is much stronger.

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

And, as we have already discussed, he did so solely out of fear of death and at the time when his mind was loosing its lucidity.

No. He was in full control of his faculties when he called for a Catholic priest at his deathbed. It is true though, that he did fear death. But if he feared death, why did he not ask a rabbi or a Baptist minister to say the prayers at his sickbed? he could have called anyone to pray for him, including a Methodist minister, an Anglican priest, a Lutheran minister, a Buddhist monk, a Hindhu guru, a Muslim imam, a Unitarian preacher, etc... Of course, he was not the only one who wanted a Catholic burial and then was libeled for doing so. World chess champion Bobby Fischer had a Catholic burial. There was a time in his life when he did appear to be somewhat unhinged, but toward the end of his life, he spent a whole lot of time in a library in Iceland reading and studying various issues. And of course the chief rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli converted to Catholicism and as a result there was an outcry of his being a traitor. In fact, there was a whole book written against him, slandering his name and reputation and that of his family.

[handmaiden]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Supposedly educated people are always making pronouncements about what's good or bad for us. Then, a few years later, they reverse their judgments.

"Low fat diets are the key to health," doctors and health gurus said. Now they're saying we need fat for our brains.


One guy with a book to push says grains are bad for our brains because according to "evolution" we are not suited to eat them.


As per book guy, we got hooked on grains some 20,000 years ago when we went from living in caves and hunting, (There are NO cave people in the Bible, btw. Able and Cain were already keeping herds and growing crops and they were like, the first people born.) and started some weird thing called the "Neolithic Revolution", which I understand some movie called The Matrix explained. (Not that I believe anything Hollywood tells me.)


Anyway, book guy spent an hour and a half on some TV show explaining why grains ruined everyone's health starting back 20,000 years ago when we switched from meat to bread. Somewhere in his list of recommendations he mentioned dairy, which he said was fine.


There, I found myself furrowing my brow. Ms. de Barriga can fill you in on what secular science silliness is being taught these days, but I vaguely remember something about those "cave folk" not just hunting, but also gathering.


Some articles even said that the gathering provided more food than the hunting. And one of the things being gathered was grains. Some archeo-whatevers claim to have found burnt or fossilized grains in some cave somewhere.


But what they didn't find were milk jugs. Book guy says grains are bad and dairy is good because of "evolution". But our supposed cave ancestors ate grain and probably didn't make a habit of milking wild animals.


Some other archeo-stuff claims that cows used to be big, dangerous animals back in cave days.(It would be like milking a rhino.) So, how did "evolution" make dairy good back then when we didn't have it? And why did it make grains bad if we were having oatmeal or wheat thins or whatever with our beef or mammoth steak dinners?


Book guy had the credentials and the book and a TV show and a devoted following. But even a non-follower like me can see the flaws in his "expertise".


Wine has been around for a long time. Why aren't we all dead? Especially in France? Fun thought-- Dr. Abstainer should sell his bill of goods in France. Instead of tomatoes, they would throw grapes.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: False Religions And Cults

John von Neumann. Perhaps you know someone else who had greater depth and width of knowledge than he had. Although he was an agnostic all his life, in the end, he converted to Catholicism.

And, as we have already discussed, he did so solely out of fear of death and at the time when his mind was loosing its lucidity.

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Some say that wine is beneficial, others disagree:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...y-experts.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/28/us...-benefits.html
Here is a link to the blog of Dr. Apstein inwhich he lets us know that Boston(and its surrounding area) comprise the US’s seat of intelligentsia. Itis stated there that Dr. Apsteinis an Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School and a member ofthe Division of Gastroenterology at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.He also lectures about wine and health.
http://www.wine-blog.org/index.php/2...ine-writer-11/
Here what he said:
“I don’t think there are anyproven health benefits,” said Apstein, an assistant professor at HarvardMedical School
http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/

http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/

Greetings Tomd! I am Trevor McGregor late of Kingston which is in Jamaica and I bid you a hearty welcome. I am very grieved to see that you have already made the white people mad. I think you are a white man too so it is sad that the white people are angry with you. I will give you some advice as a Black man who has overtaken a comprehensive study of white people here in Babylon. The advice is to never argue with white people. They always get mad and you cannot win the argument even when you are right.


I have noticed that the Baptists who own this forum can be very forgiving if you act friendly. They tolerate me quite well usually even though I am a Black man and Rastafari instead of Baptist. I will send you a friend request to show support for your attempts here but I would be dishonest if I did not warn you that many who have become my friends have been banned. It may be racism but I do not know for certain.


Jah Guide!
Trevor

[Didymus Much]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Some say that wine is beneficial, others disagree:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...y-experts.html...

The Telegraph?? Not the Daily Fail, I'll admit, but I don't go to newspapers for medical advice (and neither should you).

...http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/28/us...-benefits.html...

See above.

...Here is a link to the blog of Dr. Apstein inwhich he lets us know that Boston(and its surrounding area) comprise the US’s seat of intelligentsia....

Lemme guess, he's in the greater Boston area.

By the way, he doesn't "let us know" that, he lets us know that that's his opinion (which is a huge red flag in itself). Anyone that full of themselves usually has a really hard time admitting when they're wrong (see D. Trump et al.).

...http://www.wine-blog.org/index.php/2...ine-writer-11/...

Oh, so newspapers aren't enough of a stretch as far as citations go, now we're supposed to trust BLOGS???!???!11???

...http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/...

Here's a thing about Global. They're Canadian, and nobody in Canada trusts them for anything more serious than Blue Jays box scores.

And... neither should you.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: False Religions And Cults

Some say that wine is beneficial, others disagree:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...y-experts.html

Not a peer-reviewed source.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/28/us...-benefits.html

Not a peer-reviewed source.

Here is a link to the blog of...

Not a single blog can be considered a reputable source of scientific information. It lacks the peer-review aspect which makes science reputable, that's why.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/

http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/

Not a peer-reviewed source.

I deeply apologize for not even bothering to click on any of these links, but you seriously need to do your homework and give me at least one peer reviewed publication filled with juicy data, engaging with existing literature on the subject, and reaching a conclusion based on both.

I honestly do not care what journalists think that scientists think on any given subject. I prefer to critically engage with original scientific literature.

Quite honestly, I think that you'd fit quite well in this lovely literal-Bible-believing congregation. You do seem to fit the profile of a true believer who prefers to believe an Authority rather than the data.

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

You claim to have an excess of books, yet you admit to being unfamiliar with the expression "in their cups."


I knew the meaning of that phrase, because I have read it in a number of books. This leads to a point that may pertain to some of the weak aspects of your arguments.


You may be the legal owner of two garages filled with books, or perhaps you only have a key to said garages. Either way, your statement gives no pointed evidence that you have read any of the books to which you have access.

Thank you for pointing out that no matter how much anyone has read or no matter how much anyone knows, there is always something new to learn. There are limitations to everyone's knowledge. The last person I know about whose great knowledge was both deep and wide was John von Neumann. Perhaps you know someone else who had greater depth and width of knowledge than he had. Although he was an agnostic all his life, in the end, he converted to Catholicism.

[tomdstone]

Re: False Religions And Cults

So where Dolores directly links four articles supporting her claim, you just name-drop Harvard (everyone go "ooooooo" now) and ONE (possibly fictitious) person who disagrees, leaving it to everyone else to go around digging to try to find this doctor, and where he supposedly said that.

Some say that wine is beneficial, others disagree:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...y-experts.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/28/us...-benefits.html
Here is a link to the blog of Dr. Apstein inwhich he lets us know that Boston(and its surrounding area) comprise the US’s seat of intelligentsia. Itis stated there that Dr. Apsteinis an Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School and a member ofthe Division of Gastroenterology at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.He also lectures about wine and health.
http://www.wine-blog.org/index.php/2...ine-writer-11/
Here what he said:
“I don’t think there are anyproven health benefits,” said Apstein, an assistant professor at HarvardMedical School
http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/

http://globalnews.ca/news/3425037/is-wine-actually-good-for-you-we-asked-2-harvard-educated-doctors/