[Brother Temperance]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Will you stop twisting my words around!

Can't think now, migraine bad but rest assured I will give you one verbose reply tomorrow!
That's right....verbose!

Another sinner defeated by the Power of Christ.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Will you stop twisting my words around!

Can't think now, migraine bad but rest assured I will give you one verbose reply tomorrow!
That's right....verbose!

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

You completely miss my point, BT.

First of all, I was saying that anyone who thinks that anyone who holds different spiritual beliefs deserves to be thrown into a lake of fire forever, regardless of what sort of person they are, and that anyone who agrees with them, also regardless of what sort of person they are, should be in paradise, well, that sort of person deserves to have bad things happen to them (though not be tortured forever, I might have gone a bit overboard in my annoyance with the expression I used. But seeing as I don't believe in hell anyway, what does it matter.)

Typically inconsistent liberal puddingheadism. You aren't saying that everyone who believes differently to you deserves eternal torture, just some people whose ideas are different to yours. Is that your idea of "tolerance"?

Second point.
Lucy was saying that parts of the book are banned where he is due to gratuitous violence.
THAT is what I was saying made it indicative of not being such a great thing.

1) If God orders it, it cannot be gratuitous.
2) Who are you to judge between one repressive regime banning the practices of one religion, and another repressive regime banning the practices of another religion? I just don't see where you get the distinction from.

But if you are saying that witches and gays are evil, and that you agree with such people being killed, well, I'm afraid there shouldn't be any place for people like you in this world.

Great! Once again, it's off to the death camps for people who don't agree with you.

P.S. Please don't lecture me like that, sweetie. I'm about a decade your senior and I think I know a little bit more about life than you. You're still in school, correct? You haven't even been in the real world yet. You're still a baby.

Right, so you think his opinions are inherently less valid than yours, because of who he is?

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

You completely miss my point, BT.

First of all, I was saying that anyone who thinks that anyone who holds different spiritual beliefs deserves to be thrown into a lake of fire forever, regardless of what sort of person they are, and that anyone who agrees with them, also regardless of what sort of person they are, should be in paradise, well, that sort of person deserves to have bad things happen to them (though not be tortured forever, I might have gone a bit overboard in my annoyance with the expression I used. But seeing as I don't believe in hell anyway, what does it matter.)

Second point.
Lucy was saying that parts of the book are banned where he is due to gratuitous violence.
THAT is what I was saying made it indicative of not being such a great thing.

Yeesh!! You sure like picking on me, don't you.

Everything has a hard side, and thats necissary. If you cant accept that, Rachael, then there is no place for you in this world. There will always be rulebreakers and bad people, and therefor you must be capable of keeping order! Hence the punishments!

Dear, that's what the police are for. They take people who have committed crimes and put them in jail. That is how punishment in a normal, moral society works.

But if you are saying that witches and gays are evil, and that you agree with such people being killed, well, I'm afraid there shouldn't be any place for people like you in this world.
This is the twentieth century, not the dark ages.
We need to be evolving, not devolving.
You seem to be doing the latter I'm afraid.

P.S. Please don't lecture me like that, sweetie. I'm about a decade your senior and I think I know a little bit more about life than you. You're still in school, correct? You haven't even been in the real world yet. You're still a baby.

[Lord Lucifer]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Everything has a hard side, and thats necissary. If you cant accept that, Rachael, then there is no place for you in this world. There will always be rulebreakers and bad people, and therefor you must be capable of keeping order! Hence the punishments!

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

But, those who believe that everyone who believes different to them, no matter what, deserve to burn for eternity, well, in my opinion such people who think so (aka xtians) are the ones who truly deserve to burn.

So, in other words, you think that people who don't think like you deserve to burn for eternity? Are you trying to win some kind of John Kerry award for inconsistency?

I dont say that christians will go to heaven because they are christians. I myself beleve that there will be a judging after life, but that that would be based on the way you have lived. A man who has never read the bible, or any holy book, but that hás lived a good and honest life will be going to heaven.

Jesus says otherwise.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Sweetie, what does that tell you??? Right there?
If this were a good and loving, wonderful and moral book, NONE of it would be too violent, or violent at all, or banned!

So by your standards, the chink cult of Boodhism must be evil, otherwise the Godless Red Chinee wouldn't have banned it?

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Violence isnt always bad, and punish the evil you must. I have read the whole book, though i cant quote it literaly.

Ok, so how would you define evil, and how/why would you punish various people you see as offenders?

I wont live exactly according to the bible because some parts are too violent and/or are forbidden in my country.

Sweetie, what does that tell you??? Right there?
If this were a good and loving, wonderful and moral book, NONE of it would be too violent, or violent at all, or banned!

And you truly think that true goodness, and morals, come from a violent and ruthless book?
Can't you see the irony there, Lucy?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Violence isnt always bad, and punish the evil you must. I have read the whole book, though i cant quote it literaly.

I wont live exactly according to the bible because some parts are too violent and/or are forbidden in my country.

Then your country is hated by God. You cannot pick and choose what parts of the Holy Word of God you want to follow.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

[Lord Lucifer]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Violence isnt always bad, and punish the evil you must. I have read the whole book, though i cant quote it literaly.

I wont live exactly according to the bible because some parts are too violent and/or are forbidden in my country.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

I said you're be more likely to go to hell then me. For I dont know in what way you live your life, and I try to live mine in the best way I can.

So you see, Lucy dear, you seem to be automatically assuming I don't live a good life, because of being pagan. People who really know me, off the internet, in real life, would disagree with you.
One does not need to believe in the biblical god, or the bible, in order to have morals, Lucy.

And yes, of course I have read the bible!

Have you read ALL of it? Or just the feelgood bits preached by Pastor Feelgood at church?
I used these quotes in another post to Lunar seed, I'll requote them here, as they seem to fit well in illustrating how the biblical god, if he existed, would feel about other people besides xtians:

Towards witches:
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Towards gays:

Leviticus 20:13 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Towards people who consult with familiars/male(?) witches:

Leviticus 20:27 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

And here it happily states what the bible god thinks should be done with anyone who is of ANY other theistic belief:
Exodus 22:19 20He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

And here, what the biblical god believes should be done with non-believers:
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 12And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; 13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

And here's a lovely bit on the biblical god's view on killing a whole town if they pray to someone else:
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

17And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

18When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

And the all-time best quote for illustrating the side of the bible than so many feelgood xtians are eager to ignore:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Now ask yourself Lucy, is this a being of love? Is this a book of love, that preaches love?
Now like I said, I don't believe in the biblical god, but if he did exist, Hitler would look perfectly loving and merciful in comparison.

[Lord Lucifer]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

I said you're be more likely to go to hell then me. For I dont know in what way you live your life, and I try to live mine in the best way I can.

And yes, of course I have read the bible!

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

I dont say that christians will go to heaven because they are christians. I myself beleve that there will be a judging after life, but that that would be based on the way you have lived. A man who has never read the bible, or any holy book, but that hás lived a good and honest life will be going to heaven.

Sweetie, have you read the bible?
I myself am quite familiar with the bible, probably moreso than most xtians (with the exception of the people here at landover baptist, of course, who all know the bible extremely well).

Now if one were to live according to the bible, they wouldn't exactly be living a good and honest life. Why, the bible advocates more killing, hatred and violence than many people, maybe yourself, would possibly imagine.

And yet people like myself are judged by xtians merely because we believe in different things. Not because we are bad people in any way, but simply because we believe in something else. The same way they judge all people of other beliefs, as well as those who don't believe in a god or the supernatural, like atheists. Now that is a very sad thing, considering that the things that come from the bible are hardly good or moral, and thus bible-believers are judging good honest people, simply because they have different ideas about the spiritual/deities/the supernatural/etc.

You say you think I'm going to hell, because I'm pagan. You know nothing about me, what type of life I've led, or anything like that. The information that I happen to believe in other gods is enough for you to think I deserve to be tortured forever, based on your previous replies.

Ask yourself, Lucy, are you being a good person, a compassionate person, in thinking so?

[Lord Lucifer]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

I dont say that christians will go to heaven because they are christians. I myself beleve that there will be a judging after life, but that that would be based on the way you have lived. A man who has never read the bible, or any holy book, but that hás lived a good and honest life will be going to heaven.

[Rachael Van Helsing]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

To behold my future? On earth maybe. But at least I try to go to heaven, which quite deffinately cant be said of you, wicca.

Sweetie, if there really was a hell and heaven (which I don't believe in as you can probably guess) and heaven was really full of only xtians, I wouldn't need to be forced into 'hell', I'd be running there.

But, those who believe that everyone who believes different to them, no matter what, deserve to burn for eternity, well, in my opinion such people who think so (aka xtians) are the ones who truly deserve to burn. Why there was a man (and I use the word 'man' loosely) here who believed that his wife, not an xtian, was headed to 'hell'. Now his wife was sexually abused as a child I think. This same man asserted that if her abuser became an xtian, he would go to 'heaven' while the poor abused wife ended up in 'hell'.

Now Lucy, do you agree with this man? That his poor abused wife should be tormented forever meanwhile if the man who abused her became an xtian would deserve paradise forever?
If you agree with that, then I feel truly sorry for you, sweetie. Anyone who thinks like that are the ones who truly deserve to burn. Not the many good people who they wrongfully condemn as this man (and possibly you) are doing.
But, I don't believe in hell and heaven anyways.

P.S. I am NOT wiccan. Get it through your dense little head! If you want to insult me, at least get my beliefs right.

[Lord Lucifer]

Re: Christian music. Why so happy?

Incorrect. It incorporates a mixture of both.
However you, young man, will most likely never be respected by anyone in your life. It's a shame narrowpathy, the 40 year old virgin, isn't here. If he were here, you'd have a good chance to behold your future.

To behold my future? On earth maybe. But at least I try to go to heaven, which quite deffinately cant be said of you, wicca.