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  • O.C.Cam
    Unsaved trash
    • Feb 2010
    • 7

    #1

    Middle Earth

    Firstly, I pray for forgiveness for anything that I say which may offend - I am on what I hope is a righteous path, and I need a lot of guidance. I am deeply ashamed of the sins that I commit every day, and I hope that this message board can help me to become a better person.

    One thing that I have wrestled with is a false belief that I find it very difficult to stop believing. Perhaps you can help me to dismiss it - or perhaps I am correct after all?

    My belief is based on God's perfect creation: Creation itself. Despite its absolute perfection, right down to the most perfect details (such as parasitic wasps whose sole purpose is to live inside caterpillars - this example is a perfect example of how ridiculous evolution is - why would such a thing ever exist? Clearly it was created for reasons beyond our human comprehension, and His perfect wisdom will maybe reveal those reasons to a lucky few of us after the rapture), some things went wrong. Adam and Eve gave in to temptation; Cain killed Abel; at one point things got so bad that the Almighty felt it necessary to flood the entire world and save only a chosen few, and start all over again.

    My problem with this is that despite God's perfection, it took him a few thousand years to get things just the way he wanted them. This is understandable of course, especially if the same process is going on on other planets. Some believe that there may even be planets where the cretaures there were born without Original Sin - I find this doubtful, as it hasn't even been satisfactorily proven that there are any planets outside our Solar System. However, is it possible that Creation is just God's latest and most perfect attempt?

    I believe we may have bene given a sign of this in the last century. J. R. R. Tolkien, who I believe may have been chosen to share with us the history of a Creation before our own, wrote about Middle Earth. I believe that 'Middle' Earth may be a subtle reference to the fact that it is the 'middle' Creation: There was one before it, of which very little is known, and we are currently in the third one. Again, this is no coincidence. Jesus rose on the third day. There are three parts to the Holy Trinity.

    I believe that Middle Earth ultimately failed, and God had to destroy it, and start again with Genesis. However, there are some lessons to be learnt from Middle Earth. Like in our Creation, the first beings were long-lived: Methuselah lived to 969, but some of the Elves such as Elrond and Legolas lived to well over 7,000! However, like with the men of the Old Testament, the elves eventually died out and were replaced by a more corrupt lifeform, mankind. The fall of Isildur is much like the fall of Lucifer or of Adam.

    Gandalf may also have been some form of Messiah. Not a perfect one, like the Almighty Jesus Christ, but one who was able to offer at least some salvation in a very evil and imperfect world.

    There are also fundamental sounds - the sounds of God - which echo through these Creations. Aragorn, the King who managed to topple Sauron of Mordor (who, by no coincidence whatsoever, appears to be from the Middle East - perhaps the equivalent of Islam?), was also known as Elessar. This name is repeated in the Old Testament, with Eleazor, and also in God's own name, Elohim. Perhaps Elessar and Eleazor were both named afte the same God, in their earlier, more primitive tongue?

    I write this because I want to be cured of these evil thoughts, if they are indeed evil. Maybe I'm right? I don't know, which is why I'm here for guidance.

    God bless you all, and may the Valar protect you.
  • Ezekiel Bathfire
    Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
    Christ's Rottweiler
     
    • Jan 2008
    • 22892

    #2
    Re: Middle Earth

    Your quodlibet requires but one response: “You're mad.”
    sigpic


    “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

    Author of such illuminating essays as,
    Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

    Comment

    • Tumpelritter
      Forum Member
      Forum Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 53

      #3
      Re: Middle Earth

      Dear Sir,

      basically, the writings of that mad british catholic J. R. R. Tolkien are just another catholic twist of the Holy Scripture (the KJV1611). Lord of the rings or quran, Genies or Elves, it´s the same anti-True-Christian propaganda.

      Scripture Proof:
      Luke 6, 43 - 45:
      43“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.</SPAN> 44Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.</SPAN> 45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks

      Now look at the "fruits" of those "trees": the quran brought islamofascism and Lord of the Rings brought D&D!!!

      The anti-Christian parallels are obvious...

      Regards,
      Tumpelritter
      It`s about time we say enough is enough! Let´s all return to the traditional Western values of discipline, obedience, morality and freedom. Freedom from the reds and the blacks and the criminals, prostitutes, panders and punks, football hooligans, juvenile delinquents, lezbians and left wing scum...

      Comment

      • True Disciple
        True Christian™ Creation Scientist
        Landover Baptist University Associate Professor
        Smashing atheist science one fact at a time
        True Christian™
        • Nov 2009
        • 2445

        #4
        Re: Middle Earth

        Let's apply Simple Bible Logic to this issue:

        Fact 1: God never changes!

        Fact 2: God hates the practice of magic!

        Deuteronomy 18:10:
        There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

        For this, we can conclude that God always hated the practice of magic. Remember, magic means man performing supernatural acts. Moses calling the ten plagues over Egypt doesn't count, as it was God performing these acts, not Moses.

        Fact 3: Some of the protagonists of the stories about Middle Earth use magic!

        Gandalf doesn't pray before performing an act of magic, which means that he is guilty of violating Deuteronomy 18:10. Therefore Gandalf is evil. And as Gandalf is a servant of the Valar and "Iluvatar," who is the god of Middle Earth, this means that these entities didn't regard magic as an evil thing.

        The only conclusion is then that this "Iluvatar" is not God, which means that God did not create this "Middle Earth."
        Sweet Lord Jesus,
        I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
        Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
        Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
        Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
        Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
        Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
        Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

        Amen.

        Comment

        • O.C.Cam
          Unsaved trash
          • Feb 2010
          • 7

          #5
          Re: Middle Earth

          Originally posted by True Disciple View Post
          Let's apply Simple Bible Logic to this issue:

          Fact 1: God never changes!

          Fact 2: God hates the practice of magic!

          Deuteronomy 18:10:
          There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

          For this, we can conclude that God always hated the practice of magic. Remember, magic means man performing supernatural acts. Moses calling the ten plagues over Egypt doesn't count, as it was God performing these acts, not Moses.

          Fact 3: Some of the protagonists of the stories about Middle Earth use magic!

          Gandalf doesn't pray before performing an act of magic, which means that he is guilty of violating Deuteronomy 18:10. Therefore Gandalf is evil. And as Gandalf is a servant of the Valar and "Iluvatar," who is the god of Middle Earth, this means that these entities didn't regard magic as an evil thing.

          The only conclusion is then that this "Iluvatar" is not God, which means that God did not create this "Middle Earth."
          Perhaps that's where this world went wrong? Look at Saruman - he started off working as a servant of the Valar, but was corrupted by his power and fell, much like Lucifer.

          Comment

          • Wide-Open
            Director of European Evangelical Outreach
            A Shining Example of Christ's Love
            Quite possibly the only decent, heterosexual human being in the whole of Europe
            True Christian™
            • Nov 2007
            • 18449

            #6
            Re: Middle Earth

            Is it possible that you need a shave?
            Psalm 81:10:
            I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt:
            open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.

            Comment

            • O.C.Cam
              Unsaved trash
              • Feb 2010
              • 7

              #7
              Re: Middle Earth

              Originally posted by Wide-Open View Post
              Is it possible that you need a shave?
              I do, funnily enough.
              Incidentally, that heathen Gervais hates Lord Of The Rings as well. Coincidence? I think not!

              Comment

              • True Disciple
                True Christian™ Creation Scientist
                Landover Baptist University Associate Professor
                Smashing atheist science one fact at a time
                True Christian™
                • Nov 2009
                • 2445

                #8
                Re: Middle Earth

                Originally posted by O.C.Cam View Post
                Perhaps that's where this world went wrong? Look at Saruman - he started off working as a servant of the Valar, but was corrupted by his power and fell, much like Lucifer.
                I don't think so, as Gandalf returns to Valinor at the end of the story.

                Additionally, I think it's somewhat blasphemic to suppose that God "improves" on previous creations, as this would imply that God's Creation is imperfect, which in turn would mean that God would be incapable of getting things right the first time. I take offense to such a line of thought.
                Sweet Lord Jesus,
                I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
                Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
                Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
                Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
                Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
                Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
                Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

                Amen.

                Comment

                • O.C.Cam
                  Unsaved trash
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 7

                  #9
                  Re: Middle Earth

                  Originally posted by True Disciple View Post
                  I don't think so, as Gandalf returns to Valinor at the end of the story.

                  Additionally, I think it's somewhat blasphemic to suppose that God "improves" on previous creations, as this would imply that God's Creation is imperfect, which in turn would mean that God would be incapable of getting things right the first time. I take offense to such a line of thought.
                  But surely there's evidence even within the Bible that he improves? Like when he wiped everyone out in the Flood, and started again.

                  Comment

                  • True Disciple
                    True Christian™ Creation Scientist
                    Landover Baptist University Associate Professor
                    Smashing atheist science one fact at a time
                    True Christian™
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 2445

                    #10
                    Re: Middle Earth

                    Originally posted by O.C.Cam View Post
                    But surely there's evidence even within the Bible that He improves? Like when He wiped everyone out in the Flood, and started again.
                    You are rapidly approaching the point where my tolerance for blasphemy is exhausted, friend. You might want to grab a 1611 KJV Bible, and read the thing!

                    1. God didn't kill everyone in the flood. Noah and his family survived, together with representatives of all animal species.
                    2. Even if He did, there is no reason to suppose some of His plans went wrong.
                    3. You are denying the Infinite Wisdom and Perfection of God with this comment.
                    Sweet Lord Jesus,
                    I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
                    Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
                    Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
                    Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
                    Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
                    Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
                    Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

                    Amen.

                    Comment

                    • O.C.Cam
                      Unsaved trash
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 7

                      #11
                      Re: Middle Earth

                      Originally posted by True Disciple View Post
                      You are rapidly approaching the point where my tolerance for blasphemy is exhausted, friend. You might want to grab a 1611 KJV Bible, and read the thing!

                      1. God didn't kill everyone in the flood. Noah and his family survived, together with representatives of all animal species.
                      2. Even if He did, there is no reason to suppose some of His plans went wrong.
                      3. You are denying the Infinite Wisdom and Perfection of God with this comment.
                      My deepest apologies for not capitalising the Lord's name - sometimes it is difficult to avoid Satan's temptation to be lazy and type without reaching for the 'shift' key.

                      What I mean is that if everyone apart from Noah, his family, and one of all 1 million or so animal species including all 40,000 different species of spider were killed, then surely that is evidence that God, in his Perfection, is more than happy to wipe a lot of the world out and start again? That is not to say that He is not perfect, but that His plan may include multiple Creations, and that Middle Earth may have been one of them? I am sure that it was always His plan to share that story with us via Tolkien - it's just a shame that the aboriginal heathens then made money out of it with their evil film adaptation, with homosexuals and Catholics playing some of the main roles. One of them even dared to name himself after Elijah!

                      Comment

                      • O.C.Cam
                        Unsaved trash
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 7

                        #12
                        Re: Middle Earth

                        I meant two of each of the 1 million species, obviously.

                        Comment

                        • True Disciple
                          True Christian™ Creation Scientist
                          Landover Baptist University Associate Professor
                          Smashing atheist science one fact at a time
                          True Christian™
                          • Nov 2009
                          • 2445

                          #13
                          Re: Middle Earth

                          Originally posted by O.C.Cam View Post
                          What I mean is that if everyone apart from Noah, his family, and one of all 1 million or so animal species including all 40,000 different species of spider were killed, then surely that is evidence that God, in his Perfection, is more than happy to wipe a lot of the world out and start again?
                          Yes. But it does not imply in any way that God would be "improving," as this word implies that God's Creation was less perfect before the flood. This is blasphemy.

                          That is not to say that He is not perfect, but that His plan may include multiple Creations, and that Middle Earth may have been one of them? I am sure that it was always His plan to share that story with us via Tolkien - it's just a shame that the aboriginal heathens then made money out of it with their evil film adaptation, with homosexuals and Catholics playing some of the main roles. One of them even dared to name himself after Elijah!
                          My dear friend, haven't you read my previous reply? I already argued how this is completely impossible, using nothing else than Scripture and logic.
                          Sweet Lord Jesus,
                          I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
                          Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
                          Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
                          Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
                          Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
                          Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
                          Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

                          Amen.

                          Comment

                          • O.C.Cam
                            Unsaved trash
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 7

                            #14
                            Re: Middle Earth

                            I want to tell you all that I have given in to Satan over the last day or so, and re-reading my posts in this thread makes me truly ashamed.

                            I am back on a righteous path now - I ask only that you think of me in your prayers. Maybe it is not too late for me to be saved. If it is, then I will make it my life's mission to at least stop others from making the mistakes that I have made.

                            Comment

                            • Pastor Ezekiel
                              Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
                               
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 78556

                              #15
                              Re: Middle Earth

                              Originally posted by O.C.Cam View Post
                              I want to tell you all that I have given in to Satan over the last day or so, and re-reading my posts in this thread makes me truly ashamed.

                              I am back on a righteous path now - I ask only that you think of me in your prayers. Maybe it is not too late for me to be saved. If it is, then I will make it my life's mission to at least stop others from making the mistakes that I have made.
                              Shout Glory! Maybe the Holy Spirit is crawling up inside you.

                              Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.
                              Who Will Jesus Damn?

                              Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

                              Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

                              Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

                              Comment

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