[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

You are mistaken. I did not choose this way of parenting. I chose to obey God and His Holy Bible. My parenting is just what God wants me to do! So if you disagree you will have to take it up with God, not with me.

Ok, the beating is in the bible. Where is the humiliation, starving and freezing mentioned? Can you back that up as well?

It is funny that you tell an atheist that he has to take it up with god.

Anyway, let's for the moment and for the sake of the argument accept, that your premise is right, that the methods you mentioned in your introductory post are the ones god wants us to use.

Then either you agree with them or you don't. It is that simple. There is no other option. You made a decision of free will when you chose the ethics you follow now. And you can't blame that on a supernatural being whose existence has been neither empirically nor a priori successfully proven. So if you beat your children, YOU decided that when you chose to follow a certain path in your life. You may think, you are fulfilling the will of a divine being, but after all it is YOUR hand that is holding the stick, YOU lock your children out in the cold, YOU deny your offspring nourrishment, YOU embarrass them publicly. You can't hide behind anything.

I now understand why you are such a convicted christian. I don't know wether you have done all these things you write about, but if you did, you could never even slightly consider the option that you are wrong. Because if you are,you would have to deal with the fact that you have done a lot of truly evil misdeeds, worse, sins you are never going to be able to make up for. The religious delusions are just yourway of dealing with the torment of your conscience.

[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

For supposedly being so logical, these atheists do not seem to understand math very well.

It is always entertaining when creationists think they know stochastics, physics, chemistry or any actual real science for that matter. Do go on.

It is like paying 50 cents for a 1% chance of winning a trillion dollars (actually more than this, but I've just used arbitrarily small and large math figures to not hurt the heads of so called logical atheists.)

1% of a trillion is 10 billions. See, I can do math ;-).Apart from that, your calculation only makes sense if the bible is true. Atheists don't do that.Life ends when your brain stops working, there is nothing after that. And from that perspective (even though you may deem it misjudged) you can't deny that CrankyOldMan does advices somethingthat is despicable.

I call tell you from personal experience the pain from not being beaten by your father.

I am sure you are suffering from emotional wounds no sane person can understand or cure.

Just the thought frightens me back into obedience to our sweet and loving savoir Jesus.

See? No worshipping out of free will. It is fear that keeps you doing it.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

It is always entertaining when creationists think they know stochastics, physics, chemistry or any actual real science for that matter. Do go on.

What's even more entertaining is to see scientists struggle with "science" that goes against the Word of God.

At the foundation of all science is the Word of God. If you find that your conclusions disagree with God, then guess who has to be wrong? Is the man wrong, or is the Almighty Creator of everything wrong...hmmm...seems like an easy choice to me.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

Then either you agree with them or you don't. It is that simple. There is no other option. You made a decision of free will when you chose the ethics you follow now.

I chose to follow God's guidelines. That can be very tough, especially when the child you are beating up is crying in agony. Christian parenting is very tough on both the parent and the child. But the Bible clearly states the alternative is eternal damnation, so for the future of your child a Christian parent simply has to endure it.

You can't hide behind anything.

I am not hiding anything. What I do and why I do it is all here. And yes, I used my free will to choose to obey God to prevent my children from burning in Hell. And I am proud to be a Bible obeying Christian.

[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

What's even more entertaining is to see scientists struggle with "science" that goes against the Word of God. At the foundation of all science is the Word of God.

Nope. At the foundation of science, there is always empirical evidence and logic. Scientist never struggle with anything that goes against the so called word of god because the word of god is irrelevant for what they do. Creationists do struggle with science contradicting the holy book, but they are not scientists, because they don't base their findings on logic and empirical evidence.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

Nope. At the foundation of science, there is always empirical evidence and logic. Scientist never struggle with anything that goes against the so called word of god because the word of god is irrelevant for what they do. Creationists do struggle with science contradicting the holy book, but they are not scientists, because they don't base their findings on logic and empirical evidence.

Until you learn that at the foundation of EVERYTHING is the Holy Word™ of God, then there is simply no reasoning with you.

John 1:1 (1611 King James Bible)

In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God came before the universe, and will be around after God destroys it. The Word of God is eternal and infallible. If something conflicts with the Word of God, then it is SIMPLY WRONG!!

Friend, why do you hate God?

[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

Friend, why do you hate God?

I don't hate something that doesn't exist. If you mean the fairy tale figure in the old testament, I think actually a bit of reading will reveal why this character isn't the most sympathetic one.

Until you learn that at the foundation of EVERYTHING is the Holy Word™ of God, then there is simply no reasoning with you.

Your forum name suggests you have a PhD. I was under the impression that getting a PhD requires you to do research and research requires you to look things up that have already been done on the field that you are working on.

Now, if you actually bothered to do that, and you had looked here

http://thesaurus.com/browse/reason

The first synonym you find for reason is

Logic

You want to reason with me, meaning you want to use logic? Yet you deny its importance for science? Okay....

The Word of God came before the universe, and will be around after God destroys it.

You seem to have a rather quirky understanding of reasoning. If god destroyed the universe, then where exactly will his word be around? There is nothing left because everything is destroyed.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

I don't hate something that doesn't exist. If you mean the fairy tale figure in the old testament, I think actually a bit of reading will reveal why this character isn't the most sympathetic one.

You refer to the loving Creator that gave you life as "something that doesn't exist" and as an "unsympathetic fairy-tale figure."

He sent Himself to be sacrificed to Himself in a grueling death so that we would not be an intolerable abomination to Him...how is this unsympathetic?

You deny His existence...you therefore must hate Him. Well, He hates you too:

2 Peter 2:1 (1611 King James Bible)

But there were false prophets also among the people, euen as there shall bee false teachers among you, who priuily shall bring in damnable heresies, euen denying the Lord that bought them, and bring vpon themselues swift destruction.

Your forum name suggests you have a PhD. I was under the impression that getting a PhD requires you to do research and research requires you to look things up that have already been done on the field that you are working on.

Now, if you actually bothered to do that, and you had looked here

http://thesaurus.com/browse/reason

The first synonym you find for reason is

You want to reason with me, meaning you want to use logic? Yet you deny its importance for science? Okay....

You seem to have a rather quirky understanding of reasoning. If god destroyed the universe, then where exactly will his word be around? There is nothing left because everything is destroyed.

God exists outside of the causal order of the universe. God is not a subset of the universe, rather the reverse is true. How do you think God could exist before He created the universe? Think before you post, to avoid making yourself look even more foolish.

[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

You refer to the loving Creator that gave you life as "something that doesn't exist

I am alife because my parents had unprotected sex. Weren't you told how mammals procreate in school?

He sent Himself to be sacrificed to Himself in a grueling death so that we would not be an intolerable abomination to Him...how is this unsympathetic?

That sentence does not make sense. It's like saying how come an apple is round, but a banana is still delicious?

You deny His existence...you therefore must hate Him.

No. I deny the existence of unicorns, too, but I don't hate unicorns.

Well, He hates you too

Why would I care if an imaginary figure form a semi fictional book hates me?

God exists outside of the causal order of the universe.

You were talking about his word. Why is there a need for a word when nothing is left where it can be heard? I suggest, you follow your own advice.

Think before you post, to avoid making yourself look even more foolish.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

It's like saying how come an apple is round, but a banana is still delicious?

Easy, because God created them that way.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

I am alife because my parents had unprotected sex. Weren't you told how mammals procreate in school?

You are alive because all of your descendents all the way back to Adam procreated. And who gave Adam life? Yep, it was none other than God...now don't you feel foolish? It's okay, as an atheist you are foolish at heart. Let me explain how things work:

You see, the universe is full of sequences of events, where each event is predated by a cause, all of which lead back to the moment when God created the universe. This is the causal order I spoke of before. Only God is completely outside of this order.

That sentence does not make sense. It's like saying how come an apple is round, but a banana is still delicious?

Do you care to show how this silly analogy is applicable in any way to what I said? This kind of mushy thinking might confuse your atheist butt-buddies, but you are dealing with the sharp mind of a True Christian™, so you will actually have to make sense here.

No. I deny the existence of unicorns, too, but I don't hate unicorns. Why would I care if an imaginary figure form a semi real book hates me?

Unicorns existed in the past:

Numbers 24:8 (1611 King James Bible)

God brought him forth out of Egypt, he hath as it were the strength of an Unicorne: he shall eate vp the nations his enemies, and shall breake their bones, and pierce them thorow with his arrowes.

So, the question stands...why do you hate God?

You were talking about his word. Why is there a need for a word when nothing is left where it can be heard? I suggest, you follow your own advice.

Do you deny that the mind of God exists outside of and independent of the universe he created for us? That would be silly, even for an atheist.

That would be like saying the egg came before the chicken, which is a ridiculous notion.

You know, it's not too late for you to admit your hatred of God is wrong, get on your knees and repent, and get right with God. Jesus brought you here so that you could be instructed in the ways of his followers. Don't let this chance get away from you and you find yourself impaled on the barbed tallywhacker of Satan, while you are burned forever and have no chance of escape...ever.

[winstonthewhiner]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

You are alive because all of your descendents all the way back to Adam procreated.

No. In the beginning there were some simple molecules, like ammonia, methane and carbon dioxide on earth. These molecules contain all the atoms required to form more complex molecules and systems of molecules. At some point a pattern occurred that procreated. Over billions of years and trillions and quadrillions of individuals, today's species such as mankind and all the animals, plants funghi etc around you evolved.

You see, the universe is full of sequences of events, where each event is predated by a cause

I wholeheartedly agree. That is the fundament of modern science. If causality didn't exist, we could throw away pretty much all we know in an instant.

Only God is completely outside of this order.

And this is where it gets ludicrous. Either causality is universal, then god is subject to it. Or it isn't, in which case what you said before is invalid.

This kind of mushy thinking might confuse your atheist butt-buddies,

No, this kind of argument might confuse your christians, who see it is about the divine, so it has to right. Anybody not indoctrinated will see that the parts of your sentence are simply not related to each other. Just as the roundness of an apple and the taste of a banana are two completely different things that are not related.

[/QUOTE]but you are dealing with the sharp mind of a True Christian™[/QUOTE]A razor blade is very sharp, but it is also very tiny and thin...

Unicorns existed in the past:

Are there any unicorns today? I have seen none.

So, the question stands...why do you hate God?

Ok, the bible uses unicorns in a comparison. Why does that mean I hate god? I think your mind needs a little sharpening.

Do you deny that the mind of God exists outside of and independent of the universe he created for us?

This is getting tiring. Please do read my posts before you answer. I asked about the WORD of god. I better repeat this. The WORD!!!!! Not the mind!!!! If any supernatural being ended the universe at a time, there would be no place for his/her word to be around.

That would be like saying the egg came before the chicken, which is a ridiculous notion.

So you have seen chicken transforming into eggs? I have only seen the exact opposite.

Your very fine example just demonstrates that the notion of a god does not make sense from a rational point of view because the foundation of rationality, causality does not apply to god.

You know, it's not too late for you to admit your hatred of God is wrong, get on your knees and repent, and get right with God. Jesus brought you here so that you could be instructed in the ways of his followers. Don't let this chance get away from you and you find yourself impaled on the barbed tallywhacker of Satan, while you are burned forever and have no chance of escape...ever.

I don't hate something whose existence is not backed up by empirical evidence. Neither the existence of god nor the existence of hell nor the one of unicorns has been proven by science. I am not afraid of hell, because I don't believe it exists. When will you people get it? It is futile to threaten me with eternal torment as long as I think your judgement is misguided in that respect.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

I don't hate something whose existence is not backed up by empirical evidence. Neither the existence of god nor the existence of hell nor the one of unicorns has been proven by science. I am not afraid of hell, because I don't believe it exists. When will you people get it? It is futile to threaten me with eternal torment as long as I think your judgement is misguided in that respect.

There is plenty of proof that heaven and hell exist. I don't know if you're familiar with the parable of Lazarus (Lk 16:20-31). A man being tormented in hell pleads with Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead to warn his brothers about hell. Abraham's response was:

Lk 16:31b If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

"Moses and the prophets" means the Old Testament. In other words, if you won't believe that hell exists because the Bible says so, then you definitely won't believe any real evidence, such as someone who has seen hell coming back from the dead to tell you all about it.

So. I have proved that hell exists. How do I know heaven exists? Simple. If heaven didn't exist, Jesus would have told us so!

Jn 14:2 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

That was too easy. What else have you got?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

Your forum name suggests you have a PhD. I was under the impression that getting a PhD requires you to do research and research requires you to look things up that have already been done on the field that you are working on.

When you do a PhD the point is to break new ground: to do research is an act of discovery. Are you referring to the lit review?

For example, my thesis was about the efficacy of positive externalised Jesus focussed self talk in the disruption of depressive rumination and worry cognition chains of effect for pre and post morbid individuals in an out patient setting (and yes we had double blinds in place).

The reason I got funding was because no body had ever asked that question before. But I still had to read the Bible.

Does that make sense?

YIC

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children

No. In the beginning there were some simple molecules, like ammonia, methane and carbon dioxide on earth. These molecules contain all the atoms required to form more complex molecules and systems of molecules. At some point a pattern occurred that procreated. Over billions of years and trillions and quadrillions of individuals, today's species such as mankind and all the animals, plants funghi etc around you evolved.

So, simple molecules just magically combined to make complex molecules that magically became living things? If this were the case then wouldn't we see non-living matter becoming living matter all around us?

I wholeheartedly agree. That is the fundament of modern science. If causality didn't exist, we could throw away pretty much all we know in an instant.

The only thing we can never discard is the Word of God.

And this is where it gets ludicrous. Either causality is universal, then god is subject to it. Or it isn't, in which case what you said before is invalid.

God is not contained by the universe, the universe is contained by God. Please read my posts more carefully.

No, this kind of argument might confuse your christians, who see it is about the divine, so it has to right. Anybody not indoctrinated will see that the parts of your sentence are simply not related to each other. Just as the roundness of an apple and the taste of a banana are two completely different things that are not related.

So, you agree then that you original analogy here is ridiculous. You are so confused without God that you can't even remember what you're talking about.

2 Timothy 2:7 (1611 King James Bible)

Consider what I say, and the Lord giue thee vnderstanding in all things.

John 16:13 (1611 King James Bible)

Howbeit, when hee the spirit of trueth is come, he wil guide you into all trueth: For he shall not speake of himselfe: but whatsoeuer he shall heare, that shall he speake, and he will shew you things to come.

but you are dealing with the sharp mind of a True Christian™

A razor blade is very sharp, but it is also very tiny and thin...

Psalms 52:2 (1611 King James Bible)

Thy tongue deuiseth mischiefes: like a sharpe rasor, working deceitfully.

Are there any unicorns today? I have seen none.

So...you believe the only species that have ever existed are those which are living today? According to you then, there is no such thing as extinction? Interesting.

Ok, the bible uses unicorns in a comparison. Why does that mean I hate god? I think your mind needs a little sharpening.

The Bible speaks of unicorns, thus they existed. My mind is infinitely dull compared to that of The Almighty, but compared to you, it would cleave an atom of spacetime many times over.

Rejecting the Word of God is hatred towards God.

This is getting tiring. Please do read my posts before you answer. I asked about the WORD of god. I better repeat this. The WORD!!!!! Not the mind!!!! If any supernatural being ended the universe at a time, there would be no place for his/her word to be around.

Well well, you are getting tired? Did you not read the verse I quoted?

http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/John%201.1

The Word IS God.

So you have seen chicken transforming into eggs? I have only seen the exact opposite.

So you believe only that which you can see? You've never seen a chicken lay an egg? Have you ever seen an egg arise from nothing?

Your very fine example just demonstrates that the notion of a god does not make sense from a rational point of view because the foundation of rationality, causality does not apply to god.

God made the laws of nature and logic, but is not bound by them. God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Matthew 19:26 (1611 King James Bible)

But Iesus beheld them, and said vnto them, With men this is vnpossible, but with God al things are possible.

I don't hate something whose existence is not backed up by empirical evidence. Neither the existence of god nor the existence of hell nor the one of unicorns has been proven by science. I am not afraid of hell, because I don't believe it exists. When will you people get it? It is futile to threaten me with eternal torment as long as I think your judgement is misguided in that respect.

Science offers nothing but theories and conjectures. Nothing is proven. The Word of God is the only Truth we have. You are allowing Satan to cloud your mind with all sorts of nonsense. This is how he leads the majority to hell. Wake up your clouded mind and behold the Truth of God!!

Ephesians 4:18 (1611 King James Bible)

Hauing the vnderstanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindnesse of their heart:

Proverbs 22:3 (1611 King James Bible)

A prudent man foreseeth the euill, and hideth himselfe: but the simple passe on, and are punished.

Proverbs 8:5 (1611 King James Bible)

O yee simple, vnderstand wisedome: and yee fooles, be yee of an vnderstanding heart.