[Didymus Much]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

...I couldn't give a naff about what people believe in, as long as they don't force their beliefs on others...

You mean, like people who join forums on the internet, and start spewing patent bullshit about the subject being discussed by others who were keeping to their own little corner and not disturbing anyone?

[handmaiden]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

. . . what 2 consenting adults do to each other behind their own closed doors is not my business, and if they love each other, then that's all that matters to me.

That's very narrow-minded of you. An aquaintance of mine has a close friend who participates in sex parties with far more than two people at a time and they all don't love each other. She admits that such behavior is outside of her experience, but she doesn't judge her friend. Given the fact that he is HIV positive, all that matters to her is that he informs and protects the people with whom he "consents".

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

It's narrow-minded of you to call me narrow-minded for stating that I am not bothered about what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes. Yes, there are those wtf moments, but if an adult wants to have sex with an adult who consents, then that's okay by me.

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

You mean, like people who join forums on the internet, and start spewing patent bullshit about the subject being discussed by others who were keeping to their own little corner and not disturbing anyone?

I actually joined this forum to find out what the Calvinist side of Christianity is like (the only source I knew of beforehand was the WBC) and then shape my own opinion about everything (I don't form my opinions using just one version of events).

Oh, and I also don't give in to society telling me what to think, as I'm in charge of my own brain, and I don't need a newspaper to tell me who did what etc.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

I actually joined this forum to find out what the Calvinist side of Christianity is like...

You did that, by READING.

After that, it was "oh I have to tell them how they're all wrong about everything", ie. forcing your views on people who have not attempted to do the same to you, exactly what you're complaining about.

So are you just stupid, a hypocrite, or a mixture?

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

I actually joined this forum to find out what the Calvinist side of Christianity is like (the only source I knew of beforehand was the WBC) and then shape my own opinion about everything (I don't form my opinions using just one version of events).

Oh, and I also don't give in to society telling me what to think, as I'm in charge of my own brain, and I don't need a newspaper to tell me who did what etc.

Calvinism is that last thing you would use to describe the Landover Baptist Church. Calvin was French and a former cathylick, and believed in predestination - all of which are denounced by Landover Baptists.

[Mister Brasil]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Agnes,

Thank you so much for joining this forum. While I cannot speak for anyone else here, I welcome debate with you. I care deeply for your soul and wish only for you to find the healing love of Jesus Christ, and if debate is the means to that end, so be it.

Please forgive me for not quoting your individual responses. I think they have to be taken as a whole, rather than individually.

We at Landover Baptist Church care deeply about the problem of evil. The first problem of evil is identifying what it is. We take the position that evil is the act of living apart from God, and that the way to avoid evil is to follow God's word which is made explicit and whole in the King James Bible.

In that sense, is racism evil? You suggest that we look at Jesus to find out. I think that's an excellent idea. Jesus in fact is racist.

Matthew 15:22-28

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Here, Jesus correctly identifies a Canaanite as a dog. This is exactly how we at Landover identify Islamicismist terrorists. And you can see, that even though Jesus feels nothing but repugnance for this subhuman woman, His love is such that He addresses her concern nonetheless.


I believe that I should act the same as Jesus, to the extent that my weak soul is capable. I believe that I should be racist-- yet not let that racism prevent me from helping those towel-heads into God's kingdom. I think you'll find this attitude throughout the Landover Baptist community.


It is only by reading the King James Bible unflinchingly that we can learn what is God's will, that we can learn to avoid evils like egalitarianism. There are many who take only a part of God's word as their "truth"-- these people are like the atheists who blaspheme-with-faint-praise the name of Jesus by identifying Him as a "great philosopher." To be a Christian means to accept the entirety of His word. To accept anything less is to be an atheist or pagan, the people that all good Christians will be called upon to destroy whenever secular laws permit.

[Basilissa]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Jesus was anti-racism,

Nope.

Matthew 15:22-26
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

After that she humiliates herself, acknowledging that she is just a dog while the Israelites are real people, and only then Jesus heals her daughter.

Matthew 10:1-6
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That's not racist to you?

He also wasn't white (he was Middle Eastern),

He was a descendant of David, and this is what the Holy Bible says about the appearance of David:

1 Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

and no, I'm not being a bigot, because I do not claim to be superior or inferior to anybody (and neither should you).

This is not exactly what the word "bigotry" means, dear. It just means being very much attached to your own opinions.

Are you very attached to your own opinions? If so, then yes, you're a bigot.

Also, the definition of "bigot" is somebody who spews out hate and claims that they are full of love,

Nope. (See link above).

I look at the argument from both ends and try any tactic possible to force the other person to see that what they are saying is going to get them into trouble (even if that means putting words into their mouth, which I will do if all other options have failed). to make him/her see the world the way I see it because, like every other bigot, I know my way is better.

I've fixed that sentence for ya, dear.

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Agnes,

Thank you so much for joining this forum. While I cannot speak for anyone else here, I welcome debate with you. I care deeply for your soul and wish only for you to find the healing love of Jesus Christ, and if debate is the means to that end, so be it.

Please forgive me for not quoting your individual responses. I think they have to be taken as a whole, rather than individually.

We at Landover Baptist Church care deeply about the problem of evil. The first problem of evil is identifying what it is. We take the position that evil is the act of living apart from God, and that the way to avoid evil is to follow God's word which is made explicit and whole in the King James Bible.

In that sense, is racism evil? You suggest that we look at Jesus to find out. I think that's an excellent idea. Jesus in fact is racist.

Matthew 15:22-28



Here, Jesus correctly identifies a Canaanite as a dog. This is exactly how we at Landover identify Islamicismist terrorists. And you can see, that even though Jesus feels nothing but repugnance for this subhuman woman, His love is such that He addresses her concern nonetheless.


I believe that I should act the same as Jesus, to the extent that my weak soul is capable. I believe that I should be racist-- yet not let that racism prevent me from helping those towel-heads into God's kingdom. I think you'll find this attitude throughout the Landover Baptist community.


It is only by reading the King James Bible unflinchingly that we can learn what is God's will, that we can learn to avoid evils like egalitarianism. There are many who take only a part of God's word as their "truth"-- these people are like the atheists who blaspheme-with-faint-praise the name of Jesus by identifying Him as a "great philosopher." To be a Christian means to accept the entirety of His word. To accept anything less is to be an atheist or pagan, the people that all good Christians will be called upon to destroy whenever secular laws permit.

I forgive most things. Also, you're confusing egalitarianism with feminism, as egalitarianism calls for equal rights regardless of gender, whereas feminism enforces the notion that us women are superior, and I know some humans who don't even deserve to be called dogs, and I also think that Jesus did many wonderful things. Also, not many people know this, but one of the things I want to do before I leave the mortal realm is to go and visit this particular place in Africa (cannot remember what country it's actually in) where the Garden of Eden is said to actually exist, and also this particular temple in Japan (cannot remember the name of it) where Jesus was said to have visited (as it is said that he visited many countries during his lifetime), plus many other places that are mentioned/referenced in the Bible. If that's not enough, I also want to learn Aramaic (the language that Jesus was said to have spoken), and if I ever revisit the US again (which I hope I do, because it's a beautiful country regardless of who is in power), I want to visit that giant Noah's Ark museum. Why do I say all of that? Because even though I come across as somebody who is unsaved etc, I have grown up with these stories, and I would rather go to hell for being an Agnostic Theist than live in a world where there is no religious freedom.

And please don't worry about my soul, as I am living true to myself, and that's all a soul could really ask for, and I don't mind how you view my quotes. I also have my own life and work alongside males, and if cutting myself on computer parts is a blessing, then I've had it millions of times. Also, last year, it rained on my birthday (I jumped for joy), and my scoliosis is also a blessing because I found out that I have a mild case of spina bifida which I wouldn't have known about if my scoliosis hadn't been diagnosed years ago, and I'm also able to figure out my limits (anything beyond that is a no-go, and that includes pregnancy etc).

[Mister Brasil]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

I forgive most things.

And that's part of where you're going wrong.

Also, you're confusing egalitarianism with feminism, as egalitarianism calls for equal rights regardless of gender

You're using a special, limited definition of that word that's come into popularity on the internet due to people rushing from the stigma of the word "feminist." Don't get me wrong-- feminism is a terrible thing-- but sexual egalitarianism is like trading Beelzebub for Moloch.

I was using the word in the more general sense (which would be worthwhile to learn). From Miriam-Webster:

a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs

Egalitarianism in that sense includes opposition to racism. And Jesus Christ is not opposed to racism-- indeed, He models racism, to show us the proper way to be racist to foreigners.

Also, not many people know this, but one of the things I want to do before I leave the mortal realm

So many plans! Put only one thing on your bucket list: read God's word and subject yourself to His word.

And please don't worry about my soul, as I am living true to myself, and that's all a soul could really ask for, and I don't mind how you view my quotes.

You mention being an "agnostic theist." What god teaches you to live true to yourself??? Your god(s?) sounds like some comic-book superhero-- powerful, maybe, creative, maybe, but by what basis do you call him god and not peer? There is only one true God and He demands no such thing.

[Dolores de Barriga]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Jesus was anti-racism, and so am I. He also wasn't white (he was Middle Eastern)

Hello Miss Agnes.


For a person who claims to be agnostic, and therefore a person without knowledge whether a deity or multiple deities exist*, you seem to be putting a lot of faith into the existence of Jesus as a person.


May I ask what is your evidence to support your claim? I mean, as a rationally thinking agnostic you wouldn't just believe that someone existed without any proof whatsoever, right?


Right?..

I forgive most things. Also, you're confusing egalitarianism with feminism, as egalitarianism calls for equal rights regardless of gender, whereas feminism enforces the notion that us women are superior,

You are confusing some fringe feminism with just regular feminism.

and I know some humans who don't even deserve to be called dogs, and I also think that Jesus did many wonderful things.

We don't even know if He was ever born, how can we know if He did anything good or bad?

Also, not many people know this, but one of the things I want to do before I leave the mortal realm is to go and visit this particular place in Africa (cannot remember what country it's actually in) where the Garden of Eden is said to actually exist, and also this particular temple in Japan (cannot remember the name of it) where Jesus was said to have visited (as it is said that he visited many countries during his lifetime), plus many other places that are mentioned/referenced in the Bible. If that's not enough, I also want to learn Aramaic (the language that Jesus was said to have spoken), and if I ever revisit the US again (which I hope I do, because it's a beautiful country regardless of who is in power), I want to visit that giant Noah's Ark museum.

Why visit only places related to Christian religion?


Why not expand your worldview just a little bit and accept a possibility that maybe Christianity got it wrong - regardless of the question whether any superior being exists or not, as between agnostics, we find this dispute to be rather useless.


I mean, among all gods of all religions, Christian God really comes out as a very mean, cruel, vindictive, and pretty much heartless dick - are you sure you want to spend money visiting sites related to this specific religion?!


And before I get an infraction for calling Christian God a heartless dick, let me just tell you, that this conclusion has been reached based 1) on reading of the Holy Bible, which is the sole evidence of the Christian God, and which portrays Him in this negative light; and 2) the history of Christianity in all of its shades which is a grim story of bloodshed and oppression, all in the name of God. If He exists, why doesn't He interfere when people commit genocides in His Name?


There are three possible answers: 1) He doesn't exist, 2) He's powerless, so don't waste your time praying to Him, or 3) He actually enjoys all that cruelty committed in His name - which makes Him, you guessed it, a heartless dick.






______________
* a = not; gnosis = knowledge => agnostic = not knowing/without knowledge/lacking knowledge. Etymology source.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Actually, my opinion is relevant. Also, I don't say who is good or evil, but I do know that those who commit evil acts in the name of their particular religion are nothing but hypocrites regardless of what they say.

Hello Agnes,


No, you do not get to say who is good and who is evil, God does.


Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].


God creates evil, so He is the only one who can say with certainty who committed evil.


YIC
TT

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

And that's part of where you're going wrong.

You're using a special, limited definition of that word that's come into popularity on the internet due to people rushing from the stigma of the word "feminist." Don't get me wrong-- feminism is a terrible thing-- but sexual egalitarianism is like trading Beelzebub for Moloch.

I was using the word in the more general sense (which would be worthwhile to learn). From Miriam-Webster:

Egalitarianism in that sense includes opposition to racism. And Jesus Christ is not opposed to racism-- indeed, He models racism, to show us the proper way to be racist to foreigners.

So many plans! Put only one thing on your bucket list: read God's word and subject yourself to His word.

You mention being an "agnostic theist." What god teaches you to live true to yourself??? Your god(s?) sounds like some comic-book superhero-- powerful, maybe, creative, maybe, but by what basis do you call him god and not peer? There is only one true God and He demands no such thing.

Agnostic Theism is the belief that deities exist but there needs to be proof. It strays from the traditional stance aka. one believes in a specific deity and that's it, as we believe that all have an equal chance of existing. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in Allah? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in the great spirit? Yes, I do. Do I believe that there is only one true deity? No, I don't.

What many people do not know is that you can actually be religious and agnostic, as you can get people who call themselves Christian Agnostics, and Neil Gaiman identifies as Jewish Agnostic.

I also believe in the possibility that there might be no deities, and that everything we think we know about religion could be completely wrong. I also believe in conspiracy theories, and I believe in aliens too. Not just that, but I've figured out something in relation to judgement day, as there will be a day when Earth will burn, but it's not for many years. It will rain lava etc, and the only way anybody will be able to survive that is to leave the solar system and find other planets to call home.

[Basilissa]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Agnostic Theism is the belief that deities exist but there needs to be proof.

I'll bait.

What do you consider proof for your belief that deities exist?

It strays from the traditional stance aka. one believes in a specific deity and that's it, as we believe that all have an equal chance of existing. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in Allah? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in the great spirit? Yes, I do. Do I believe that there is only one true deity? No, I don't.

Thank you for providing a very nice example for the definition of a theist. Just a regular theist, there's nothing agnostic about it.

How about religions which include multiple gods, such as religions of the pagan Europe or Catholicism?

What many people do not know is that you can actually be religious and agnostic, as you can get people who call themselves Christian Agnostics, and Neil Gaiman identifies as Jewish Agnostic.

You can slap pretty terms on it, dear, but it still just boils down to people who are weak in their faith, but are too cowardly to abandon their faith altogether and choose rationality instead. God teaches us that we cannot have our cake and eat it, too; you have to choose, either faith or rationality.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

They will burn in Hell for their lack of faith.

I also believe in the possibility that there might be no deities,

Oh, so when you are doubting you are going all the way to atheist, huh? God hates you for it:

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

and that everything we think we know about religion could be completely wrong.

If you mean, that religion was invented by elites to keep commoners' mouths shut, or that it was created to cement societies, or that it fulfills a psychological need of an individual - all that and more has been discussed for the past 100 years by academics. And yes, you're right - all they say about religion is completely wrong. There's only one True Religion and everybody else is going to Hell.

I also believe in conspiracy theories, and I believe in aliens too.

Oh, so you just have this deep need to have someone in the sky watch over you, and it doesn't really matter if that's a deity or an alien?

That's a bit creepy. Is it caused by some trauma which you suffered in your childhood?

Not just that, but I've figured out something in relation to judgement day, as there will be a day when Earth will burn, but it's not for many years. It will rain lava etc, and the only way anybody will be able to survive that is to leave the solar system and find other planets to call home.

Don't worry, dear. The True Day of Judgement will come long before the hypothetical day when the Sun swells and eats inner planets. And there's no spaceship which can save souls from eternal torment in Hell!

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening

Hello Miss Agnes.


For a person who claims to be agnostic, and therefore a person without knowledge whether a deity or multiple deities exist*, you seem to be putting a lot of faith into the existence of Jesus as a person.


May I ask what is your evidence to support your claim? I mean, as a rationally thinking agnostic you wouldn't just believe that someone existed without any proof whatsoever, right?


Right?..



You are confusing some fringe feminism with just regular feminism.





We don't even know if He was ever born, how can we know if He did anything good or bad?





Why visit only places related to Christian religion?


Why not expand your worldview just a little bit and accept a possibility that maybe Christianity got it wrong - regardless of the question whether any superior being exists or not, as between agnostics, we find this dispute to be rather useless.


I mean, among all gods of all religions, Christian God really comes out as a very mean, cruel, vindictive, and pretty much heartless dick - are you sure you want to spend money visiting sites related to this specific religion?!


And before I get an infraction for calling Christian God a heartless dick, let me just tell you, that this conclusion has been reached based 1) on reading of the Holy Bible, which is the sole evidence of the Christian God, and which portrays Him in this negative light; and 2) the history of Christianity in all of its shades which is a grim story of bloodshed and oppression, all in the name of God. If He exists, why doesn't He interfere when people commit genocides in His Name?


There are three possible answers: 1) He doesn't exist, 2) He's powerless, so don't waste your time praying to Him, or 3) He actually enjoys all that cruelty committed in His name - which makes Him, you guessed it, a heartless dick.






______________
* a = not; gnosis = knowledge => agnostic = not knowing/without knowledge/lacking knowledge. Etymology source.

I do want to visit other places, and I want to revisit a synagogue that I haven't been to for at least 15 years. Also, it was proven that a guy called Jesus did actually exist, although it's not known whether or not he did any of the stuff that's mentioned in the bible.