[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

In the beginning (time) God (force) created (action) the heavens (space) and the earth (mass).

That's the way I see it!

You missed out The Firmament. In the space/time model of secular relativism there is no room for "firmaments" they say (despite space being infinite) - I just stick with The Word Of God and find It needs little augmentation. Hymns maybe. The Psalms are included. I never use recipe books but others may find them useful I suppose. That's about it, though.

So where does The Firmament fit into your theory?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Reason??? The bible doesn't have secular science in it if The Lord thought science had a place in the world he would've put it in the bible.

He did.

Daniel 1:1-6 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god. And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes; Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans. And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
KJV . now read on

The secular "science" you mentioned is also described by God, as follows:

I Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
KJV

[Shimei]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

You missed out The Firmament. In the space/time model of secular relativism there is no room for "firmaments" they say (despite space being infinite) - I just stick with The Word Of God and find It needs little augmentation. Hymns maybe. The Psalms are included. I never use recipe books but others may find them useful I suppose. That's about it, though.

So where does The Firmament fit into your theory?

I have no theory Ms. MitzaLizalor. And I am stuck on the statement space being infinite. I was simply making reference to cosmology (universe’s beginning and an external cause). jeausus_is fake brought about Bertrand Russell, “If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause.”

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Originally Posted by Shimei
In the beginning (time) God (force) created (action) the heavens (space) and the earth (mass).

That's the way I see it!

“That's the way I see it!” says you do have a theory. Genesis does not suggest that IN the beginning means the same as AT the beginning. God then goes on to describe the PLACE of Creation

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV


and does not mention anything about TIME until all this is accounted for.

Obviously I will not be watching any demonic themed cinematography about "forces" and although I have read some physics textbooks I have yet to see one which equates "force" with God. The Bible does mention the subject however:

Deuteronomy 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
KJV

Concerning your other theoretical musings:

“created (action)” .. created (as used in Genesis 1) is a verb, action is a noun: the two are not equivalent

“heavens (space)” .. whatever the Biblical position on outer space may be, Heaven is very clearly defined in Genesis. It is not in accord with your theory as stated:

Genesis 1:6-8a And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven.
KJV

“earth (mass)” .. Mass is not The Earth. It is measured as a resistance to force which in your model equates with God and as you will see when you read through His Inerrant Word the created order does not resist its Creator. Only the unnatural vices do that, idolatry, obsessive sexual compulsions, communism, evolutionist secularism, quantum physics and atheism.

All such lies fly in the face of God's Revealed Wisdom and are forced into young and malleable minds only by satanic brainwashing techniques masquerading as education. How unlike the force of Moses, inspired by God to bring deliverance from bondage under the demonic priesthood of pharaoh's Egypt and leading to the redemptive power of The Blood Of Christ. Jesus explains:

John 8:31b-36 If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
KJV

Praise Him!

[Shimei]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

“That's the way I see it!” says you do have a theory. Genesis does not suggest that IN the beginning means the same as AT the beginning. God then goes on to describe the PLACE of Creation

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV


and does not mention anything about TIME until all this is accounted for.

Obviously I will not be watching any demonic themed cinematography about "forces" and although I have read some physics textbooks I have yet to see one which equates "force" with God. The Bible does mention the subject however:

Deuteronomy 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
KJV

Concerning your other theoretical musings:

“created (action)” .. created (as used in Genesis 1) is a verb, action is a noun: the two are not equivalent

“heavens (space)” .. whatever the Biblical position on outer space may be, Heaven is very clearly defined in Genesis. It is not in accord with your theory as stated:

Genesis 1:6-8a And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven.
KJV

“earth (mass)” .. Mass is not The Earth. It is measured as a resistance to force which in your model equates with God and as you will see when you read through His Inerrant Word the created order does not resist its Creator. Only the unnatural vices do that, idolatry, obsessive sexual compulsions, communism, evolutionist secularism, quantum physics and atheism.

All such lies fly in the face of God's Revealed Wisdom and are forced into young and malleable minds only by satanic brainwashing techniques masquerading as education. How unlike the force of Moses, inspired by God to bring deliverance from bondage under the demonic priesthood of pharaoh's Egypt and leading to the redemptive power of The Blood Of Christ. Jesus explains:

John 8:31b-36 If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
KJV

Praise Him!

You are darling Ms. MitzaLizalor for bringing this to light. Thanks for bringing all this to my attention. You are well versed Ms. Mitzalizalor, I respect that.

Lemme explain and provide the resource material from which it came. This was recommended reading for an Intelligent Design course I had taken some time back. The curious thing you bring to attention is God being equated to Force, I do believe that this was used in opposition to Chance. And Time really is the magical formula for Evolution, with Time all things can happen with Chance.

Some questions asked were as follows:

1. Is the material universe itself eternal, as some claim?
2. And if it is, why hasn’t it wound down?
3. For that matter, what set it in motion to begin with?
4. What is the source of the energy that keeps it going?
5. Why hasn’t entropy caused it to devolve into a state of inertia and chaos, rather than apparently developing into a more orderly and increasingly sophisticated system as the big bang expands?
6. What was the first cause that caused everything else?
7. Where did matter come from?
8. Where did energy come from?
9. What hold everything together and what keeps everything going?
10. How could life, self-consciousness, and rationality evolve from inanimate, inorganic matter?
11. Who designed the many complex and interdependent organisms and sophisticated ecosystems we observe?
12. Where did intelligence originate?

Here's my notes on the subject, the source material came from John Macarthur, "The Battle for the Beginning."



These are categories. The outlined five “ultimate scientific ideas:” time, force, action, space, and matter. They comprise of everything that is susceptible to scientific examination. That simple taxonomy, Herbert Spencer believed, encompasses all that truly exists in the universe. Everything that can be known or observed by science fits into one of those categories, Spencer claimed, and nothing can be truly said to “exists” outside of them.



To note: Spencer’s materialistic world view is immediately evident in the fact that his categories leave room for nothing spiritual.

Apologist Dr Henry Morris writes: Genesis 1:1 is unique in all literature, science, and philosophy. Every other system of cosmology, whether in ancient religious myths or modern scientific models, starts with eternal matter or energy in some form, from which other entities were supposedly gradually derived by some process. Only the book of Genesis even attempts to account for the ultimate origin of matter, space, and time; and it does so uniquely in terms of special creation.

Each reader is faced with a simple choice: Either you believe God did create the heavens and the earth, or you believe He did not. If He did not, He does not exist at all, nothing has any purpose and nothing makes any sense. If on the other hand there is a creative intelligence—if there is a God—then creation is understandable. It is possible. It is plausible. It is rational.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Lemme explain and provide the resource material from which it came.

So it didn't come from the Bible then?

These are categories. The outlined five “ultimate scientific ideas:” time, force, action, space, and matter. They comprise of everything that is susceptible to scientific examination. That simple taxonomy, Herbert Spencer believed, encompasses all that truly exists in the universe. Everything that can be known or observed by science fits into one of those categories, Spencer claimed, and nothing can be truly said to “exists” outside of them.

To note: Spencer’s materialistic world view is immediately evident in the fact that his categories leave room for nothing spiritual.

Each reader is faced with a simple choice: Either you believe God did create the heavens and the earth, or you believe He did not. If He did not, He does not exist at all, nothing has any purpose and nothing makes any sense. If on the other hand there is a creative intelligence—if there is a God—then creation is understandable. It is possible. It is plausible. It is rational.

Spencer was a philosopher, not a scientist. Modern scientists would reject a lot of his ideas. Anyway, why you would use the philosophy of an agnostic to prove Creation? You claim that Spencer's categories leave no room for the spiritual and then use those categories to prove that God created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning (time) God (force) created (action) the heavens (space) and the earth (mass).

It's a bad idea to try to force the Bible to fit secular science. According to secular science, the heavens contain mass (planets, stars, etc) and both the heavens and the earth occupy space and time. I'm unclear on how Spencer defined force, but a (secular) scientific definition is:

Any influence that causes an object to undergo a certain change, either concerning its movement, direction, or geometrical construction. In other words, a force is that which can cause an object with mass to change its velocity (which includes to begin moving from a state of rest), i.e., to accelerate, or which can cause a flexible object to deform. Force can also be described by intuitive concepts such as a push or pull. A force has both magnitude and direction, making it a vector quantity.

Doesn't mention anything about the creation of time, space or mass. Now of course we Christians know that God can do all these things: cause a change in movement and direction and so on. But is that all God is? According to science, magnetism is a force. Is magnetism God (or a god)? God makes magnets work, don't get me wrong. But see what happens when you conflate science and theology? It's terribly confusing.

Or do you think God created forces like magnetism and gravity? If God created forces, then is He really a force according to a scientific definition?

Well, that's enough secular science from me for today. My head's hurting. I'll have to spend twice as long in my prayer closet tonight to make sure it doesn't infect my soul.

[Creationist Ron]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

I hope that you understand that atheism only refers to the refers to the fact they they believe that there isn't a god. Not all atheists believe in the same theory about how the earth became what it is. Evolution does not say we evolved from monkeys it means that we evolved from animals that were similar to monkeys. Such as the neanderthal and cro magnon man. They don't exist while monkies and humans do today. for your first point you can't use the bible to prove that the bible is right. Computors and cars aren't mentioned in the bible does that mean they don't exist?

All atheists are monkey worshipping baby killers.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

All atheists are monkey worshipping baby killers.

Although we know what kind of monster kills innocent babies, this thread is about why atheism is wrong.

In their spasmodic attempts to unify divers theories, atheists forever refudiate one conjecture with another. The negating of Newton by Einstein is a topical example I suppose. Where The Force is invoked we see only despair.

Satan, who determines the potential of every neuronal action at source and commands his subjects via the enhanced "libido" associated by whores with physicists forever, announces that magnetism is no more that a focused episode of gravitational "warping space" resulting from alignment of "particle motion" I have no doubt that even Hedy Lamarr would be able to anticipate the spiritual atrocities developing from such an outrageous idea, birthday suit notwithstanding!



So we see the bilious attack of atheism upon God's Perfection revealed for what it is: falsehood forever without foundation and murder not only of innocent babies but of whole nations and philosophies of deceit.

True Christians choose reality over falsehood every time and eschew the gabbling languages of demonic origin. Satan is the master of those tongues and we will never convulse in thrall to his sickness.

[Onthepot]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

God this is to easy.
Reason 1: The holy bible.

All you say about this can only be true, if the bible is 100% true to the word.
It has already been proved that the bible isn't true to the word because of the rewritings and bad interpretations.
The bible is a book of understanding, not of facts, it teaches to live a life of morality and don't forget the metaphors.
Stupid atheists? To them the bible is not even true by one word, let be your words.

Reason 2: evolution.

It would be a scary idea if we did not change.
Both body and mind are important to each others, if I did not change as a man, I would not become a better person.
And that is the most important thing of evolution, becoming better and adapting, if we did not evolve, we would not survive.
Certain monkey's don't evolve very much further because they don't NEED to, because they can keep on existing without standing on two feet and having creative minds, mind you though: monkeys DO create, they use tools etc.
Humans just happen to have evolved their minds, to complexity.
Though I find it arrogant and ignorant that people find themselves superior at everything.
Is it not true that for example gorilla's are way stronger than humans?
Is it not true that hawks have better sight than humans?
Humans have the ability to invent and create, because we want to solve problems.
Animals don't need to solve problems.
For everything there is a reason!

reason 3 the big bang:

The big bang is a natural cycle that happened times before.
Nothing can be created in 6 days, nor has Jesus got anything to do with it.

Reason 4 Dinosaurs:

Omg, you are stupid, its the same reason as evolution, and since when is everything in the bible true to the word?
Its written by humans, not by god, thus he did not take dinosaurs in his big boat.
If dinosaurs would be there in the world, we would have to hide.
Saying humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time is ignorance:
Dinosaurs lived in a time where they could live, we live in a time to what we are adapted.


And actually I don't care what you think about me, I'm just hoping you guys wouldn't be ignorant to facts, that's stuff like bones, not words written by people who hardly knew anything.

Thank you I thought I was the only one who listened through science oh I have something else to add to reason 1 ignoring evolution is kind of preposterous as we humans are changing to this day and once again thank you for using your brain

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

Thank you I thought I was the only one who listened through science oh I have something else to add to reason 1 ignoring evolution is kind of preposterous as we humans are changing to this day and once again thank you for using your brain

You're confused, dear. My children are 100% human. They haven't evolved into anything new. My grandparents and great grandparents were all 100% human, no monkeys there!

[catholicpartyboy]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

i find it rather sick that you people who pretend to be good "christians" are saying jesus was compassionate or caring. what the hell was he? if you think just because cripples can't walk its cause they don't have faith then you your selves are going to hell, not them. also catholosism wasn't invented by constantine, it was made legal by him. before then CATHOLICS were being persacuted. also, your religion was invented by martin luther, not jesus. he changed everything.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

i find it rather sick that you people who pretend to be good "christians" are saying jesus was compassionate or caring.

Why do you have a problem with what Jesus actually said?

what the hell was he? if you think just because cripples can't walk its cause they don't have faith then you your selves are going to hell, not them.

So... Jesus was lying when He said,

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:17-18

also catholosism wasn't invented by constantine, it was made legal by him. before then CATHOLICS were being persacuted. also, your religion was invented by martin luther, not jesus. he changed everything.

Learn your history, son. You're quite misinformed.

Start HERE.

[James Hutchins]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

i find it rather sick that you people who pretend to be good "christians" are saying jesus was compassionate or caring. what the hell was he? if you think just because cripples can't walk its cause they don't have faith then you your selves are going to hell, not them. also catholosism wasn't invented by constantine, it was made legal by him. before then CATHOLICS were being persacuted. also, your religion was invented by martin luther, not jesus. he changed everything.

Friend, everyone knows, catlicks are NOT Christians. So do not come crying to us about persecution. Only True Christians(tm) can be persecuted and talk honestly about it.

Martin Luther? He was that shuffled footed nigra that put his blood all over that nice motel back a few years. He was not around when God created the Heavens and the Earth (and therefore Christianity).

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

i find it rather sick that you people who pretend to be good "christians" are saying jesus was compassionate or caring. what the hell was he? if you think just because cripples can't walk its cause they don't have faith then you your selves are going to hell, not them. also catholosism wasn't invented by constantine, it was made legal by him. before then CATHOLICS were being persacuted. also, your religion was invented by martin luther, not jesus. he changed everything.

Are you saying that the Bible is now different? God has somehow changed His mind?

[catholicpartyboy]

Re: 101 reasons why Atheists are WRONG !!!

well christians didn't exist when the world was created, they were jewish. there was no christianity until jesus came. also, i suppose i can't complain for being persacuted cause we definetly didn't get fed to lions, or crucified on the roads in china, or hung from railroad tracks in mexico. and martin luther took four books out of the bible completely, he also translated it wrong from latin to english.