[Nobar King]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I don't know why I keep reading about this trash. It is all just so depressing. She has a tattoo necklace of skeleton hands??? I am imagining that she has a tarantula tattoo between her breasts or maybe it's a bumble-bee with a human skull head, and I'm sure it gets a lot worse from there.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I don't know why I keep reading about this trash. It is all just so depressing. She has a tattoo necklace of skeleton hands??? I am imagining that she has a tarantula tattoo between her breasts or maybe it's a bumble-bee with a human skull head, and I'm sure it gets a lot worse from there.

Wherever you go, Mr King, it will get worse. Worser than either of us could imagine. But imagination is not always necessary and I've stumbled into hellholes too, so I took a closer look here she is wearing shades and here's a close-up of the hands. I'm glad you noticed them I think they are the hands of fœtuses (detail follows)

enlarged, lo-res
practicing eurythmics corrupted to include "opening the mouth" and "clawing at things" in true goth style
here she was practising "pointing at things" for whatever reason but note the absent neck bling

So it's costly adornment, the horrors seem to be cast in palladium or iridium or something but even if they're refined arsenic I doubt that she'll be repenting any time soon. These are valuable items to look for (in jewel boxes) to clinch it: "Yes," you could be certain, "this child is a Godless goth."

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Most of the things in this thread have little or nothing to do with Goth, or at least not just Goth. I will freely admit to being Goth and am proud of it. Goth was a genre of music started in the late 1970s as an offshoot of Punk music with bands like Bauhaus and Siouxsie and the Banshees. The Goth subculture is basically a music scene built around supporting and showing a love for this genre of music; Goths are fans of Goth rock. It is not a religion and has nothing to do with religion.

Goths have always been able to be found wearing a variety of colours, not just black. Band t-shirts are not inherently Goth, they are worn by fans of almost every genre of music. Even some churches have t-shirts for their choirs. This is not just a Goth thing and only implies someone is Goth IF the band shirt they are wearing is that of a Goth band. My husband loves them, but I am not a huge fan of band t-shirts. I prefer to wear more elegant, classy and lady-like clothing such as gowns/dresses, long flowing skirts, peasant skirts, velvet, lace, peasant tops, drape or bell sleeve shirts, corsets, lace gloves, opera gloves, etc., My boyfriend wears band t-shirts with cargo pants/jeans or kilts, and sometimes pirate/medieval tunics. I usually only wear black or red lipstick, nail polish, and colour in my eyebrows. This is not just a Goth thing either. People within the Black metal community wear more make up than a lot of Goths.

Silver is used worn for protection, especially against vampires. Kind of goes against your later comments that Goths are obsessed with vampires, drink blood, avoid daylight because they want to be vampires. The inverted cross is the symbol for St. Peter. Some Goths actually enjoy wearing crosses. Pentagrams are worn for protection, especially if they are silver. They are a symbol for first degree Wicca, or for Paganism, representing the four elements ruled by spirit. There are some Christians or Christian witches who even believe the pentagram or pentacle is a symbol that stands for the five wounds of Christ. The pentacle cannot actually be worn. This is a common mistake/misconception. A pentagram is a five pointed star surrounded by a circle. A pentacle is actually a five pointed star surrounded by a circle USED IN RITUALS. Outside of ritual use, it is not a pentacle. An inverted pentagram is the symbol for second degree Wicca. The pentagram is only Satanic when it is both inverted and has a goat's head. Ankhs are an Egyptian symbol for eternal life. This is rather funny because I've had people assume I am Christian because the ankh is often confused with the cross. None of these things are Satanic. And I wear them all.

I dislike these. I think it's self mutilation. Not all Goths are into them, and not only Goths are into them. Some Christians even get tattoos because they believe the bible only referred to tattoos as a sin WHEN they are done to represent the dead or for ritualistic purposes because getting a tattoo for those reasons was (is) something Pagans do. While I don't like them, my husband has a few tattoos.

Nothing Marilyn Manson does or says matters. His music is not Goth and he does not represent the Goth community or goth people because he is not Goth. His music is absolutely horrible and sounds nothing like Goth music. Music also is not antisocial. It's kind of hard for it to be so. Most people who are really into music are going to be involved in the music subculture relevant to the music they enjoy, which often includes concerts and clubs. Most areas with a decent Goth scene have at least one or two Goth club nights a month with 30/40+ people. Hardly antisocial.

Everyone associates and interacts with people who have similar interests to them. Why would you want to be friends with someone you have nothing in common with? It usually doesn't work out very well. It also depends on what you consider eccentric. In modern society, I'd consider dressing in very modest clothing with little skin showing to be more eccentric than Goth. I mean it's popular for kids to go to school in micro mini skirts or booty shorts with thigh high stripper boots and half shirts. Modesty is not really the normal anymore and that would make it eccentric.

I don't consider bible and spots to be wholesome activities. For one, a book is not an activity. Reading it may be, but the book itself is not an activity. A lot of Goths actually have read the bible at least once though, even if they do not believe in it. It's a decent book of fairy tales and mythological stories. We just prefer to read other things. I prefer to read about the Medieval era or books that take place then, fantasy novels, mythology, and Gothic literature. Christians are not the only people who pray either. Anyone who follows some kind of religion likely prays, we just do not all pray to the same god. A lot of us like churches, but we like them for their architectural beauty like Gothic churches & cathedrals. It's also rather fun to have Medieval Pagans or Pagan feasts / rituals in the ruins of a church with a fire pit in the center, drinking some mead and listeing to folk / celtic music. My husband and I did that with some friends last year and will probably be doing it again soon this year. I am not sure why you'd think Goths are interested in sports. Most don't care for baseball or football, the latter of which I do not find wholesome as it is a extremely rough spot that can lead to a lot of injuries & being hooked on drugs. But we are interested in burlesque, belly dancing, goth dancing, some of us still roller skate, some of us go hiking and run marathons. There is archery, fencing, horse back riding, jousting.

Witchcraft, the occult, vampires, etc., None of these things usually involve Satan. I am a Pagan Witch and my husband is Asatru / Nordic Pagan. Neither of us believe in or worship Satan. I am also a vampire and that has nothing to do with Satanism.

Almost everyone in the world takes some kind of drug. I take medication for IBS, nausea migraines (also one of the reasons why I take birth control), antibiotics for an infected tooth that needs to be removed, asthma. My husband smokes pot (which is a natural part of the earth you claim your god created) because it helps him sleep and relieves stress. Drinking wine has been proven to have health benefits. Other than that I mostly only drink mead and cider, and that is for special occasions or socially. Without alcohol I would be an extremely antisocial person in clubs or at concerts where I don't know anyone because I suffer from anxiety, especially social anxiety. It helps a lot of people with social anxiety loosen up and this list has made it very clear that you disapprove of being antisocial. So which is it? Should we be social or antisocial?

Most Goths, myself included, are not depressed or suicidal. This is a stereotype and misconception. And if they are it has nothing to do with being Goth or Satan. It has to do with either having something in your life that has caused you pain or it is a mental illness that can only be controlled with...medicine/drugs.

Cutting isn't Satanic. Cutting can be used in rituals if you have to use blood for sacrifice, but generally you would just prick your finger with a needle and use a very small amount. Most people who cut are actually doing it as a cry for help. They either have a mental illness they need help for, they are depressed for a good reason, they just want attention from their parents/friends or they are doing it because they think it's cool. I have never in my entire 34 years of existence once cut, burned or self mutilated myself on purpose. I don't believe my husband has either.

Being bored has nothing to do with Goth or Satan and it just literally means that you are actually bored. Example: If I don't work for a few days or see any of my friends and am stuck in the house, I will get bored. Because you can only read or watch t.v. for so long. I want to go outside and go hiking or explore an abandoned building. Or go out to a Goth club and dance to Clan of Xymox.

Sleeping too much or too little or staying up late is not Goth or satanic.
Some people suffer from insomnia. Some people also suffer from things like fiber myalgia, thyroid problems, anxiety, depression, etc., all of which can make you extremely fatigued. I also prefer to stay up late at night because I go outside to take a walk and get some exercise without it being excessively hot. There is no real shade in my area. It also helps to avoid annoying catcalls & jerks with no respect following you, trying to get you in their car because they assume you're a prostitute.

Maybe some people don't care for sunlight because they just don't want to deal with premature skin aging, burning and blisters, or get skin cancer? It could also be that someone has sensitive eyes and bright light is literally painful to them? I had a really bad cornea abrasion years ago and suffer from recurrent cornea abrasions, which means I can basically get a small cornea abrasion for no apparent reason. I could just wake up in extreme pain with my eyes watering and can barely keep them open. Doctors no longer recommend wearing an eye patch for this, so if this happens I literally cannot stand bright light. I also have an eye floater that I can see in really bright light / white rooms. It's like a squiggly line in my vision that causes blurriness. My best friend has really sensitive eyes and wears sunglasses all the time because of it.

Time alone and privacy are perfectly normal. Though most Goths aren't spending large amounts of time alone. We're actually very social people when we have friends / groups we have a lot in common with. I have been to the Renaissance festival at least three times this year. I'd go more if I drove and my boyfriend was not working. If I want to be alone, it's usually because I feel like curling up with a Gothic romance novel. I'm currently reading Children of the Griffin by Elizabeth Giles.

Meditation is not to speak to evil speaks. It is a coping mechanism for people who have Aspergers or very bad tempers. It is recommended by doctors.

Most teenagers are going to insist on being allowed to hang out with friends. Teenagers are growing up and want to be trusted and treated like adults. I spent a lot of time alone or with friends without any adults present when I was a teenager and we never did anything harmful or dangerous. We went to the movies or we'd go to the mall to go shopping. Held some Pagan rituals & studied the craft. Walked around the woods. Went out to rock concerts in the basement of a local church.

I read through a lot of the posts in this thread before reading. You guys don't like Catholics. You think they are evil Satanists, but you WANT people to do what Catholic authority figures tell you? That does not make any sense at all and is extremely hypocritical. Also, teachers are not always right. When someone kept calling bomb threads into my high school many years ago, they would have everyone go stand on the track. We would have to stand there for at least an hour. I'm sorry, but having someone who is extremely sensitive to heat and can get heat stroke within 15-20 minutes of direct exposure to the sun in summer stand out for an hour in June is NOT a good idea. "Don't you dare leave" is not an order I was going to follow. I'd rather get suspended for a few days than end up in the hospital.

Bad behaviour often just means your child is trying to get your attention because you are not spending enough time with them. It could also mean that the school's rules are kind of ridiculous.

What is a Count Dracula cereal? I assume you are talking about Count Chocula. It's just a chocolate and marshmallow cereal released for Halloween with a vampire gimmick because...it's Halloween. There is nothing Goth about it. Sure I like it, but so do most people who like chocolate cereals and marshmallows. I also eat Boo Berry and Frankenberry and so does my 8 year old son. I eat bat shaped brownies, pumpkin shaped brownies, and I like to make white chocolate skulls and bones. It's not goth, it's just cute.

Vampires usually don't believe in or worship Satan. Most vampires have their own religion they follow, which has a basis in Egyptian mythology, or they just follow whatever or don't believe in any gods or goddesses. I am a vampire and I am a Pagan. Drinking blood is only dangerous if you are not careful & don't screen your donors or if you drink too much.

Cable is not satanic, goth or evil. Especially today. Gothic was popular in film prior to the mid to late 1970s. Then slasher horror became popular. Honestly, there is not much on cable t.v. that is even good or interesting. I prefer films that were made prior to the mid 1970s for the most part because I prefer Gothic Romance / Gothic Horror. Though that is still made today, I mean we have Dorian Gray (2009), Jane Eyre (2011), Crimson Peak, etc., it's not as common or frequent as it was back then. And my child will watch whatever he feels like watching that is appropriate for his age.

Video games are not Satanic or Goth. With the exception of perhaps the Addams Family video games, Altered Beast, Dracula, and Castlevania which are games that my son and I play together. Video games with violence will only incite violence if you child already has violent tendencies, a mental illness or you do not teach them right from wrong.

Using a computer a lot is obviously something everyone on this forum does. It is almost impossible to not use a computer. If you want to get a decent job, you need to know how to use a computer. And unless you pay for an expensive private skull that does not allow them much, most schools have you use computers to do the majority (if not all) of your homework as well as work in the classroom. I guess we should let our children fail in school and at life? A lot of people, like myself, also run their own businesses off a computer/online.

Making Satanic symbols? Shaking heads to music? You're talking about metalheads NOT Goths. Two very different types of people.

Dancing provocatively? Sexual is in the eye of the beholder. Or the loins? Someone could dance a country two step and someone might find it sexually appealing. This also is not just a Goth or Satanic thing.

Expressing an interest in sex or masturbating are perfectly normal things for people, especially teenagers. Only eccentric & odd Christians think something that is basically human nature is wrong. I have and express a great interest in sex, with my Pagan husband.

ow does being homosexual or bisexual make you Goth or a Satanist? Or is it being Goth or a Satanist makes you bisexual or homosexual? None of these things are the case. There are some people in the Goth scene who are, but most are actually straight. I've noticed a lot of comments in this thread / forum that Goths are all bi or homo, "Goth girls are fast, pasty faced lesbians." This is utter nonsense. I've also seen comments that men painting their nails, having long hair, long nails, or touching themselves means they are homosexual. This is also nonsense. I've also seen a comment saying there should be no hands involved in sex. Also ridiculous.

I am a Goth girl. I am married to a man. I am straight and not sexually attracted to women. He is straight and not sexually attracted to men. He has long hair and he grews his nails out a little long because I like him to be able to scratch me. He masturbates when thinking about me if I'm not at home as I would expect him to. I also guess that you "Christian women" must need to feel pain, and maybe even bleed, to orgasm since you don't want any foreplay. I would also assume you must like getting yeast / vaginal infections from having sex with men who don't clean their penis properly. Sorry, but while I like it deep and hard and I do like being bitten, I don't really enjoy having it hurt the entire time I'm having sex nor do I enjoy yeast infections. My hubby damn well better be touching himself and me.

Most of our friends are also in male/female relationship. Two of our best friends were married in a Norse Pagan ceremony two years ago. Two of our other best friends were recently married in a LaVeyan Satanist ritual with a naked woman as the altar. It was one of the most beautiful and touching wedding ceremonies I've ever been too. Both couples are men and women.

Satanism,
Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca, Hinduism and Buddhism.

None of these are dangerous cult religions. Nor do they have anything to do with Goth. Goth is not a religion. It's a music scene.

More than likely, any person constantly proclaiming they are Goth is a poseur who doesn't even understand / know what Goth is.

The Gothic culture is not dangerous. It is a much safer environment than most music/club scenes or than most activities your child could be doing. It is also unlikely that your child is involved in the actual Goth scene unless they have parents or an elder sibling (18+) who is or they are 18+ themselves. Most children or teens do not know what Goth is / have no interest in real Goth. And most Goth clubs and concerts do not allow anyone under the age of 18. While I have been listening to Goth music since I was a child, that is mostly because my parents were Goths and I heard the music from them and from films that were out at the time (Batman Returns, The Craft, The Hunger, Return of the Living Dead, Night of the Demons, etc.,). I was not really involved in the culture itself (except online) until I was old enough to go out to clubs.

I know it is rather hard for people today to learn about what the Goth subculture actually is. There is a lot of incorrect information out there, especially on the internet. As well as a lot of people out there claiming to be Goth themselves when they really have no idea what it is. But please actually read the dictionary definitions, do some research, talk to some real Goths before jumping to conclusions and posting things like this on the internet. We have already been physically attacked for years because people mistakenly think the Trench Coat Mafia were Goths. I would prefer to see people in a scene I care about be safe from outsiders when we have done nothing to deserve the treatment we receive.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Most of the things in this thread have little or nothing to do with Goth, or at least not just Goth. I will freely admit to being Goth and am proud of it. ...useless stuff... A lot of Goths actually have read the bible at least once though, even if they do not believe in it. It's a decent book of fairy tales and mythological stories. We just prefer to read other things. I prefer to read about the Medieval era or books that take place then, fantasy novels, mythology, and Gothic literature. ...more useless stuff...
I am a Goth girl. I am married to a man. ...even more useless stuff...
I know it is rather hard for people today to learn about what the Goth subculture actually is. ...and more useless stuff...

Excellent! You are a Goth! I have many questions for you! You've read the Gothic Bible! I have more questions regarding that document! You're married - even more that I need to know regarding your position to your Gothic Bible. In short, I'm ready to learn about the revolting Gothic subculture that you advertise! I've always been very interested in the Gothic culture and language, and as you are a native speaker I'd really like you to assess some things based on your Bible. I'm referring to the Wulfila translation, of course!

1. You presumably use the Wulfila Bible during your services, but I'd like to know if you still adhere to the nontrinitarian Arianism or if you have discarded this heresy? This is important regarding your Salvation!

2. You've read the Bible. Do you have available the missing segments (such as, John 1-4) that would be very useful regarding the Trinitarian nature of Jesus (see, e.g., John 1:1-4). Could it be that these missing parts have caused the Arianism I referred to earlier?

3. You're married. That must mean that you have a position regarding the Epistles? How do you harmonize your un-Godly demeanor with the most important gender-related Biblical regulations? I'm, of course, referring to these verses in your Bible.

Ephesians 5: 22-24
qenes seinaim abnam ufhausjaina swaswe fraujin; unte wair ist haubiþ qenais swaswe jah Xristus haubiþ aikklesjons, jah is ist nasjands leikis. akei swaswe aikklesjo ufhauseiþ Xristu, swah qenes abnam seinaim in allamma.

The "seinaim" (from "seins" as you know) has been classified as "strong feminine dative plural" but still "morphosyntactically ambiguous". Is this why you find it hard to submit to higher powers and continue to propagate the Gothic heresy?

Looking forward to your answers.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

If you actually wanted to learn about the Gothic subculture, you wouldn't ignore half my post calling them "useless stuff", as I've already explained exactly what it is.

There is no such thing as a Gothic bible and the Gothic community does not use the language of the extinct Germanic Goth tribes, which have absolutely no connection to the modern Gothic subculture. Goth is not a religion. It is a music scene.

[Basilissa]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Excellent! You are a Goth! I have many questions for you! You've read the Gothic Bible! I have more questions regarding that document! You're married - even more that I need to know regarding your position to your Gothic Bible. In short, I'm ready to learn about the revolting Gothic subculture that you advertise! I've always been very interested in the Gothic culture and language, and as you are a native speaker I'd really like you to assess some things based on your Bible. I'm referring to the Wulfila translation, of course!

1. You presumably use the Wulfila Bible during your services, but I'd like to know if you still adhere to the nontrinitarian Arianism or if you have discarded this heresy? This is important regarding your Salvation!

2. You've read the Bible. Do you have available the missing segments (such as, John 1-4) that would be very useful regarding the Trinitarian nature of Jesus (see, e.g., John 1:1-4). Could it be that these missing parts have caused the Arianism I referred to earlier?

3. You're married. That must mean that you have a position regarding the Epistles? How do you harmonize your un-Godly demeanor with the most important gender-related Biblical regulations? I'm, of course, referring to these verses in your Bible.

Ephesians 5: 22-24
qenes seinaim abnam ufhausjaina swaswe fraujin; unte wair ist haubiþ qenais swaswe jah Xristus haubiþ aikklesjons, jah is ist nasjands leikis. akei swaswe aikklesjo ufhauseiþ Xristu, swah qenes abnam seinaim in allamma.

The "seinaim" (from "seins" as you know) has been classified as "strong feminine dative plural" but still "morphosyntactically ambiguous". Is this why you find it hard to submit to higher powers and continue to propagate the Gothic heresy?

Looking forward to your answers.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

Brother Elmer, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing a clear and concise summary of what that extremely long wall of text was about.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

If you actually wanted to learn about the Gothic subculture, you wouldn't ignore half my post calling them "useless stuff", as I've already explained exactly what it is.

There is no such thing as a Gothic bible and the Gothic community does not use the language of the extinct Germanic Goth tribes, which have absolutely no connection to the modern Gothic subculture. Goth is not a religion. It is a music scene.

Your confusion no doubt stems from your aimless wandering in life. Without a proper goal, such as to fear and obey the LORD (Ecclesiastes 12:13), you will find yourself vulnerable to the temptations of the lord of darkness, Satan himself. Following Satan only gets you a lifetime of doing embarrassing and humiliating things in public, followed by an eternity of torture for failing to fear and obey Jesus (John 3:18). This is not the happy ending you're looking for. Why not familiarize yourself with your Redeemer? You'll be amazed at what you can do when you have Christ in your life! Why, you'll be able to do all the works Jesus did, and more (John 14:12)!

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

So basically neither one of you is actually literate enough to actually read? That is extremely saddening. I feel sorry for you. No wonder you don't understand anything about the Goth subculture. You'd have to read to actually learn about it.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

If you actually wanted to learn about the Gothic subculture, you wouldn't ignore half my post calling them "useless stuff", as I've already explained exactly what it is.

There is no such thing as a Gothic bible and the Gothic community does not use the language of the extinct Germanic Goth tribes, which have absolutely no connection to the modern Gothic subculture. Goth is not a religion. It is a music scene.

Now this is a disappointment! How can you claim to be a Goth if you don't even take the effort to learn the language!

I knew that there were many false Christians but apparently there are also false Goths! Basically, you are only pretending, imagining that some cool clothes and bling could make you a Goth. Jesus was obviously aware of such play-acting during His years on Earth.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Or, in the Gothic language that you apparently dismiss due to the actual work required to master it.

ni hvazuh saei qiþiþ mis: frauja, frauja! inngaleiþiþ in þiudangardja himine, ak sa taujands wiljan attins meinis þis in himinam.

But isn't it fascinating how the meanings of words change in time. Gothic is extremely interesting as it must be very close to Proto-Germanic, one of the languages that God designed to confuse sinners at Babel (Genesis 11:9). "Frauja" had the meaning "Lord", while the word "Frau" is a "lady" in modern German. Perhaps that is why you are confused?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Your confusion no doubt stems from your aimless wandering in life. Without a proper goal, such as to fear and obey the LORD (Ecclesiastes 12:13), you will find yourself vulnerable to the temptations of the lord of darkness, Satan himself. Following Satan only gets you a lifetime of doing embarrassing and humiliating things in public, followed by an eternity of torture for failing to fear and obey Jesus (John 3:18). This is not the happy ending you're looking for. Why not familiarize yourself with your Redeemer? You'll be amazed at what you can do when you have Christ in your life! Why, you'll be able to do all the works Jesus did, and more (John 14:12)!

I've never done anything embarrassing or humiliating in public, but thanks for your concern. My goals have been to find love and get married, run my own business, and enjoy life. All things I have done/am doing. Nor am I the one who is confused. Goth is not a religion, it is a genre of music and music subculture/scene. Goths are just people who enjoy Goth rock. You all seem to have them confused with metalheads, punks, ravers/cybers, satanists, mallcores/mansonites, etc.,

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Now this is a disappointment! How can you claim to be a Goth if you don't even take the effort to learn the language!

I knew that there were many false Christians but apparently there are also false Goths! Basically, you are only pretending, imagining that some cool clothes and bling could make you a Goth. Jesus was obviously aware of such play-acting during His years on Earth.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Or, in the Gothic language that you apparently dismiss due to the actual work required to master it.



But isn't it fascinating how the meanings of words change in time. Gothic is extremely interesting as it must be very close to Proto-Germanic, one of the languages that God designed to confuse sinners at Babel (Genesis 11:9). "Frauja" had the meaning "Lord", while the word "Frau" is a "lady" in modern German. Perhaps that is why you are confused?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

Goth does not have a language to learn. It is not a race, it is not a religion, it is not a country. You are confusing the modern Goth music subculture with the extinct Germanic Goth tribes. Two very different things, just like heavy metal and iron are two very different things.

Yes, there are false Goths. People who claim to be Goth without actually listening to Goth rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, or Coldwave are not Goth. I however am not one of them. I listen to Goth rock and it's subgenres; therefore, I am in fact a Goth. The way you dress or what jewelry you wear doesn't mean you're a Goth. Anyone who says that does not understand the meaning of the word Goth.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Goth does not have a language to learn. It is not a race, it is not a religion, it is not a country. You are confusing the modern Goth music subculture with the extinct Germanic Goth tribes. Two very different things, just like heavy metal and iron are two very different things.

Yes, there are false Goths. People who claim to be Goth without actually listening to Goth rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, or Coldwave are not Goth. I however am not one of them. I listen to Goth rock and it's subgenres; therefore, I am in fact a Goth. The way you dress or what jewelry you wear doesn't mean you're a Goth. Anyone who says that does not understand the meaning of the word Goth.

I don't understand. What's the point? Will this in your opinion help you in the Gothic afterlife? Moreover, I think it is wonderful that your nation has chosen to express themselves in Godly American, but why discard all traditions, including the language?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Unfortunately, this is one of the verses that were not preserved in Gothic. I was really hoping you could have helped me there. Perhaps you are one of the Crimean Goths? You see, Goths did not become extinct in antiquity but remained in the Crimean peninsula at least until the 18th century. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still there and could have a brighter future now that Mr. Putin, a friend of Jesus, has the area under God's control.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

So basically neither one of you is actually literate enough to actually read? That is extremely saddening. I feel sorry for you. No wonder you don't understand anything about the Goth subculture. You'd have to read to actually learn about it.

Why would anyone bother to get to know such an aggressive and hostile people? Goodness, it's not like you're a threat to us, and you certainly aren't going to win us over with your rude and condescending attitude. You're not important either way, and Jesus will stomp you out for your insolent attitude (Revelation 14:20). And when He does, and when your blood flows in the streets as high as the first floor windows, we will splash around and have a great time (Psalm 58:10)!

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

I don't understand. What's the point? Will this in your opinion help you in the Gothic afterlife? Moreover, I think it is wonderful that your nation has chosen to express themselves in Godly American, but why discard all traditions, including the language?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Unfortunately, this is one of the verses that were not preserved in Gothic. I was really hoping you could have helped me there. Perhaps you are one of the Crimean Goths? You see, Goths did not become extinct in antiquity but remained in the Crimean peninsula at least until the 18th century. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still there and could have a brighter future now that Mr. Putin, a friend of Jesus, has the area under God's control.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

I see you don't understand English very well. Odd considering you are speaking it.

The Germanic Goth tribes have been extinct for centuries, since around the time the last Goth king died in the early 8th century. And as I said, they have NOTHING at all to do with the modern Goth subculture. You are confusing things. A word can have more than one meaning and definition.

Modern Goths are not a nation or a race. Goths are fans of Goth Rock. A genre of music started in the late 1970s in England as an offshoot of Punk. The Goth subculture is built around being a fan of that music. No one is discarding any traditions because those "traditions" have absolutely nothing to do with Goth Rock and therefore nothing to do with us.

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1. a genre of rock music that first became popular in the 1980s and is characterized by morbid themes and melodies.
2. a person who is part of a subculture favoring this style of music and a dark and morbid aesthetic:

often not capitalized a : rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics b : a fan or performer of goth

[LadyMarshmallow]

Re: Is Your Child a Godless Goth?

Why would anyone bother to get to know such an aggressive and hostile people? Goodness, it's not like you're a threat to us, and you certainly aren't going to win us over with your rude and condescending attitude. You're not important either way, and Jesus will stomp you out for your insolent attitude (Revelation 14:20). And when He does, and when your blood flows in the streets as high as the first floor windows, we will splash around and have a great time (Psalm 58:10)!

I was not hostile to you. I simply explained what Goth is and how many of the things on your "warnings" list are not true.

The fact that you refuse to read something that is well written with decent grammar, addressing all your misconceptions about the Goth subculture, implies that you cannot read well. It is also implicated by the fact that most of you seem to get something completely different out of my posts from what is actually there.

Seeing as I am Pagan and don't believe in him, I don't care what you think Jesus is going to do to me. However, I do care when people spread false information about the Goth scene. It gives people the wrong idea about us and can put us in danger.