[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

l ol hardly. My birthday is not January 1st either, but is it really that important a detail to you? I can change it, if so...

So how old are you? And why did you lie when you registered?

If you must know, I like to browse the Internet for Christian-Atheist arguments; I guess it would be somewhat of a hobby of mine. While I do not partake in the argument, I examine the logic presented on both sides. And move on...

This site, however, was a very interesting find.

Well thanks (I think). I hope you understand that this is a Christian forum, and not a debate site. Keep a respectful tongue in your head if you want to retain your posting privileges. You full rights on this forum are explained HERE.

Never did I imagine to find Christians who want non-believers (or rather, non-Christians) to stay away from them. Perhaps you are aware of a method I am not when it comes to guiding non-Christians onto the path of salvation. "Unsaved Unwelcome" Yikes...

It never ceases to amaze us the number of so-called "Christians" ask us this question. If they would only blow the dust off of their Bibles and put their noses into the 16th Chapter of Mark, they would find that Jesus commands us to evangelize the world! He didn't say, "find a comfortable pew each Sunday morning and cross your fingers in hopes that some unsaved piece of human refuse will walk through the doors of your church." No, he said, ""Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel." That word, "go" there is a verb. And for those of you illiterate, misguided Christians who allow unsaved people through the doors of your church each Sunday morning, a verb is an "action word," and "go" means "GO!" as in "leave," or "SCRAM!" It doesn't mean, sit on your hiney! The only place for evangelism is outside the confines of the Lord's four-walled holy dwelling place. God's home is a place for True Christians™ to fellowship. Allowing an unsaved person into church is like President George W. Bush inviting members of Al-Qadea into the Oval Office to sit in on a meeting to discuss ways of capturing Osama bin Laden. It's something you JUST DON'T DO! PERIOD!

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

This is the argument:

P1: All Jews are evil beings.
P2: All persons identical to Jesus are Jews.
C: All persons identical to Jesus are evil beings.

I disagree with the conclusion entirely. However, if P1 is True, and P2 is True, then logically, C must be true as well. But it is not.

So for C to be false, P1 or P2 must be false.


Jesus wasn't called King of the Jews for nothing. So...

Here are the problems with your so-called argument:

Error in P1: All HUMANS are evil beings by nature. It is only when we are Saved© that we cease to be evil. Therefore, all non-Christians are evil beings. Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Atheists, Agnostics, Wiccans, Deists, Obamaists, Rastafarians. You'd know this if you read your Bible.

Error in P2: No humans are identical to Jesus, as Jesus is God. You'd know this if you read your Bible. Do you think that Harvey Fierstein is God? Do you think that Ben Stein is God? Fran Drescher, is she God?

Finally, Jesus did not call HIMSELF King of the Jews. The Roman soldiers who executed Him called Him King of the Jews. You'd know this if you read your Bible.

Maybe if you read your Bible a little more, and your entry-level philosophy textbook a little less, you'd have at least half a clue.

You claim to be Christian, yet you claim that some humans are "identical to Jesus". I say that you are a liar, and no Christian.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

I do not fully understand the word of God, and I wonder if I ever will understand it. Isaiah 29:14 says that "human wisdom shall perish, and even the most prudent men's understanding shall vanish." Which basically means to me that I will never completely get it.

That alone makes me wonder whether you are actually saved. God gave us His Word so that we could understand its literal meaning:

Deuteronomy 4:2: Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Ephesians 3:3-4: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

If you don't understand the Bible as those verses say you should, perhaps this is the reason:

1 Cor. 2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Finally, if you don't understand the Word, how are you supposed to be a doer of the Word?

James 1:23-25: For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (See also the passage from Deuteronomy above.)

[Passerby]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Here are the problems with your so-called argument:

Error in P1: All HUMANS are evil beings by nature. It is only when we are Saved© that we cease to be evil.
What's with the copyright symbol?

Error in P2: No humans are identical to Jesus, as Jesus is God.
Duh. The only person identical to Jesus is Jesus! Therefore, the statement only applies to him. Regardless of whether he was, in fact, a Jew or not is

Finally, Jesus did not call HIMSELF King of the Jews. The Roman soldiers who executed Him called Him King of the Jews.
Acknowledged.

Maybe if you read your Bible a little more, and your entry-level philosophy textbook a little less, you'd have at least half a clue.
Everyone should read his/her Bible more. And I do not have a philosophy textbook to read, by the way.

You claim to be Christian, yet you claim that some humans are "identical to Jesus".
Already addressed this.

I say that you are a liar, and no Christian.
Excuse me for being human. Yes, I "lied" about my age and date of birth, but these should really be unimportant facts on a Christian forum.

So how old are you?
19 years.

And why did you lie when you registered?
Because I saw my age an unimportant detail in my registration, but mostly because I wanted to get right to posting.

If they would only blow the dust off of their Bibles and put their noses into the 16th Chapter of Mark, they would find that Jesus commands us to evangelize the world!
I agree.

"Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.'" (Matthew 28:18-20)

The word 'disciple' is derived from discipulus, which means "student, pupil, or follower". I wouldn't be making much of a follower by burning him/her to death, would I?

That word, "go" there is a verb.
Two-thirds of 'God' is 'go'!

Allowing an unsaved person into church is like President George W. Bush inviting members of Al-Qadea into the Oval Office to sit in on a meeting to discuss ways of capturing Osama bin Laden. It's something you JUST DON'T DO! PERIOD!
Tell that to the new believers we receive almost month, who have never taken a step through our doors, and were cast out by other churches.

It doesn't cupcakes. It dropkicks their butts faster down to hell. Are you a hippie Friend? Are you saying that no creation of His ever ends up in hell?
If only...But why would you not even try to save a witch's soul? If a witch can be broken of his/her practices, converted, baptized, and the works, is he/she still a witch? Is he/she still condemned for all eternity and forever destined to burn in a lake of fire? I think not.

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." (Phillipians 4:13)

This certainly means I can guide a witch to Christ so that he/she may also share in the Kingdom of God! If a witch cannot be saved, then Jesus' sacrifice was in vain, as are my efforts.

That alone makes me wonder whether you are actually saved.

Really now? Thanks, but I know where I am headed

My church's motto is "Show Jesus' love in a practical way." I am not sorry for caring about someone I believe is currently condemned to Hell forever. My witch and pagan friends deserve Hell no more or less than I do. A spot is a spot, no matter how you look at it; however, I believe Christ came not only to 'bring a sword', but also to allow a way for God's creations to rejoin their Father in Heaven, and to erase the black spot on the white sheet of our souls.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

This verse is what I base all my efforts on. "Whosoever believeth" must includes witches (or ex-witches since they would be converted).

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31)

But what is love?

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 14:3-7)

This is why I am the way I am. I choose to follow these verses above all else. I am patient with and kind even to those who do not share my beliefs. I try my absolute God-given best to control my anger with those who curse me, and never hold someone's past mistakes against them nor punish them for it. That is God's job. Now, I am defending those whom you would not hesitate to eliminate and give an early one-way trip to Hell. I desire the Kingdom of God, and I wish to bring as many of my friends, His creations, alongside me as I can. I will continue to do this until the day my body perishes. And on Judgment Day, I want Him to say...

"Ah! Welcome, my son! Hmm? Who are these people that accompany you?"
"They are my friends, my Lord. Your sons and daughters."
"What's this? Witchcraft? Drunkedness? Adultery? Such things cannot exist in My Kingdom! They must b--"
And Jesus would cut in: "Wait, Father! These people knew Me, and I them. Should they not be granted entry into Your Kingdom of Heaven?"
"I see...Very well, then. Welcome, my sons and daughters, to your Eternal Home, My Kingdom of Heaven!"

Or something like that...It's much more dramatic in my head, but who knows how it will be in actuality?

But the phrase "Unsaved Unwanted" just boggles my mind beyond belief and reason! How would you save someone by driving them away? Care to enlighten me?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

But the phrase "Unsaved Unwanted" just boggles my mind beyond belief and reason! How would you save someone by driving them away? Care to enlighten me?

I'm not sure that's possible. False Christians like you are deep in the devil's pocket, and you are notorious for cherry-picking and willfully misunderstanding the Holy Word of God.

Did you know that God warns us to stay clear of the unsaved? To hate those who hate God?

Psalm 139:19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.


Rom. 16:17: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" -- 2 John 1:9-11


I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. -- 1Cor:9-11

I could go on and on, but my guess is that I'm casting pearls before swine.

I'd also guess that you're about 16 at the most. God hates a liar.

[Nobar King]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

I desire the Kingdom of God, and I wish to bring as many of my friends, His creations, alongside me as I can. I will continue to do this until the day my body perishes. And on Judgment Day, I want Him to say...

"Ah! Welcome, my son! Hmm? Who are these people that accompany you?"
"They are my friends, my Lord. Your sons and daughters."
"What's this? Witchcraft? Drunkedness? Adultery? Such things cannot exist in My Kingdom! They must b--"
And Jesus would cut in: "Wait, Father! These people knew Me, and I them. Should they not be granted entry into Your Kingdom of Heaven?"
"I see...Very well, then. Welcome, my sons and daughters, to your Eternal Home, My Kingdom of Heaven!"

Can you tell us more about your suicide bomb plot? How many people do you plan to take out with you?

The statements you have made have been passed along verbatim to the dept of Homeland security, the FBI, the DOF, and your local police. Threats of murder and violence against other individuals is not a joke and will not be tolerated here. Hopefully we can find your friends and warn them before you sucker them into your sick plot.

After you blow up our church, are you going to insist that God not allow us to enter Heaven with you?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Really now? Thanks, but I know where I am headed

Only The Lord of Hosts knows that sinner!

My church's motto is "Show Jesus' love in a practical way." I am not sorry for caring about someone I believe is currently condemned to Hell forever. My witch and pagan friends deserve Hell no more or less than I do.

God does not agree – you have created a god, a false god, in your own image and are damned.

I believe Christ came not only to 'bring a sword', but also to allow a way for God's creations to rejoin their Father in Heaven, and to erase the black spot on the white sheet of our souls.

So do we boy, the difference is we listen to His Word, whilst you imagine what He might have said if He’d met you over a few beers

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) This verse is what I base all my efforts on. "Whosoever believeth" must includes witches (or ex-witches since they would be converted).

Obviously no witch believes in Christ, otherwise they would not be witches. Are you mentally disadvantage, or, as we say here, “a retard”?

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31)

The why do you ignore the whole of His Word and pick and choose your verses?

But what is love?

You some sort of emo?

"Love is patient, […] Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 14:3-7)

What bible are you using? Are you using a bible at all? KJV1611 says: 1Co:14:3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co:14:5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co:14:6: Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co:14:7: And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

This is why I am the way I am.

What? Dyslexic and innumerate?

I choose to follow these verses above all else.

So basically, you picked and chosen what you think God ought to have said? Well, how very magnanimous! Taking verses out of context and deciding what is fluffy bunny!

I am patient with and kind even to those who do not share my beliefs.

As was Christ, except Christ is God… now, which one of you is correct?

I try my absolute God-given best to control my anger with those who curse me, and never hold someone's past mistakes against them nor punish them for it.

What? Despite God’s commands to the contrary?

That is God's job.

No, he gave us some responsibility for the behavior of others

Now, I am defending those whom you would not hesitate to eliminate and give an early one-way trip to Hell.

Ah! I see now, you are The Devils Advocate! Get the behind me!

I desire the Kingdom of God,

What, to rule in His stead?

That’s it I’ve stopped reading, Son, because the blasphemy offends me. You’re so up your own ass! Yours is not to question God or to impose your pathetic intelligence and ill-thought out morals on The Greatest Being. Yours (and mine) is to obey Him.

Repent! Repent and hear God’s Word!

[Passerby]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Only The Lord of Hosts knows that sinner!

So I'm not allowed to be 100% sure of my salvation? What doubting thoughts!

"But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him." (Jeremiah 17:7)


As for being a sinner, there isn't much getting around it.

"There is none righteous, no, not one..." (Romans 3:10)

God does not agree – you have created a god, a false god, in your own image and are damned.

Showing Jesus' love in a practical way is damnable? Shouldn't our goal as Christians be to show God's love, and bring His Kingdom together by saving as many souls in our lifetimes (one per person, obviously) as possible by guiding them to the Almighty Father, all with a Christ-like attitude?

So do we boy, the difference is we listen to His Word, whilst you imagine what He might have said if He’d met you over a few beers

Possibly, except I do not drink. Moving on...

Obviously no witch believes in Christ, otherwise they would not be witches. Are you mentally disadvantage, or, as we say here, “a retard”?

First off, you must have missed what I placed in parentheses in the same statement. Nexly, there's a difference between opposing and not believing in something, although the Bible does state you are either with or against Him, and there is no in-between. Surely the devil believes in Christ's power, but he rejects and fears it, too!

Ignoring the 'retard' comment. Name-calling has no place here, only in elementary school.

The why do you ignore the whole of His Word and pick and choose your verses?

Because many of the laws in the Old Testament are overridden by New Testament wisdom. Example: Mosean law had something like "An eye for an eye." Jesus changed it to "Turn the other cheek." Jesus >>>>>>> Moses

You some sort of emo?

Just looking for a Bibilical definition of a vague term. Is that so emo?

What bible are you using? Are you using a bible at all? KJV1611 says:

1Co:14:3: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co:14:5: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co:14:6: Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co:14:7: And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

My apologies, that was a typographical error. It was supposed to say 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, not 14:3-7. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps if an Edit button were present

What? Dyslexic and innumerate?

Umm, no. Try compassionate. And I corrected myself above^

So basically, you picked and chosen what you think God ought to have said?

Think? It's written down on paper in a book, but I'm following Christ's wisdom above laws the Pharisees would probably enforce. You want to stone a witch? Read the story of the adultress in John 8, and take a gander at what Jesus does. Tell me, which of you can cast the first stone?

Well, how very magnanimous! Taking verses out of context and deciding what is fluffy bunny!

It's called deciding which laws take priority over others. As for taking things out of context, how about you "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye", and then get back to me. (Matthew 7:5)

As was Christ, except Christ is God… now, which one of you is correct?

Despite the fact that Christ and God are also separate entitites? Ever heard of the Divine Trinity? God is one, yet three, correct?

What? Despite God’s commands to the contrary? No, he gave us some responsibility for the behavior of others

Yes, so simply show them why it's wrong, and replace it with the correct habit! In 1 Corinthians, it says "Love keeps no record of wrongs." If a serial killer came up to me seeking guidance, I would provide as much as I can, and give a link to Divine Guidance: prayer. Sure, I may be hesitant if I knew about his/her crimes, but that's no reason not to help him/her, especially if the law has already punished them with jailtime and/or community service. It's possible to get saved in prison.

Ah! I see now, you are The Devils Advocate! Get the behind me!

Riiiiight...Perhaps in my death while defending the ungodly, they would come to know Christ through my sacrifice for them. Jesus gave his life for those he loved, allowing a way to heaven. Though I am by no means Jesus, doing the same should produce a similar result: guiding the ungodly to Christ, who's death is countless times more important and impacting than my own.

P.S.: 'Thee' is spelt with two e's.

What, to rule in His stead?

We all know what happened to the last guy who tried that. To recreate that calibur of a scenario is beyond foolish, so I suppose better rephrasal is needed for you (yet again): I desire to live in the Kingdom of God for all eternity, and I wish for everyone to be able to share in that divine home, even the currently ungodly. Teach to them to be godly, and there is no longer a problem.


"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme, but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." (Mark 3:28-29)


So the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit? Well, that sin is dealt with by an acceptance of Jesus Christ as the personal Lord and Savior of one's life, pretty much stated in John 3:16.

That’s it I’ve stopped reading, Son, because the blasphemy offends me. You’re so up your own ass! Yours is not to question God or to impose your pathetic intelligence and ill-thought out morals on The Greatest Being. Yours (and mine) is to obey Him.

Your last two sentences make little to no grammatical sense. I'm also curious as to how my intentions of getting people into heaven is blasphemous.

Repent! Repent and hear God’s Word!

Repent of my daily sin? I do it frequently.

Can you tell us more about your suicide bomb plot? How many people do you plan to take out with you?

The statements you have made have been passed along verbatim to the dept of Homeland security, the FBI, the DOF, and your local police. Threats of murder and violence against other individuals is not a joke and will not be tolerated here. Hopefully we can find your friends and warn them before you sucker them into your sick plot.

After you blow up our church, are you going to insist that God not allow us to enter Heaven with you?

It's amazing how quickly you jump to false conclusions. Saving and then killing is sick and twisted, but when did I once say I was going to kill anyone? And furthermore, you assume that I would ask to reject your entry into Heaven, sending you to Hell for all eternity? That is completely idiotic. I would not wish such a fate on anyone, no matter how much I think they deserve it.

Christ could have easily called down the angels to destroy the world when they put Him up on the cross, but he didn't, did he? As much as humanity doesn't deserve even a passing glance from God, He designed and orchestrated a way for even the lowliest men to get into the Divine Kingdom: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure that's possible. False Christians like you are deep in the devil's pocket, and you are notorious for cherry-picking and willfully misunderstanding the Holy Word of God.

It's not possible for me to understand how "Unsaved Unwelcome" guides people to heaven? Perhaps, but then again, Phillipians 4:13 says otherwise. Surely, with Christ's aid, you can help me understand your methods!

Did you know that God warns us to stay clear of the unsaved? To hate those who hate God?

What happened to making disciples and baptising them in the names of the Trinity? Surely an ex-witch can guide a witch to Christ more effectively than someone like me! However, that does not mean it is impossible for me to do it as well.

I could go on and on, but my guess is that I'm casting pearls before swine.

Excuse me for acting like Christ, seeking out and saving the lost.

I'd also guess that you're about 16 at the most. God hates a liar. [/quote]
Then perhaps you should ask God what age I am, because clearly you don't believe me. Or, you can simply keep the 1 as it is and turn that 6 upside-down so it looks like this -> 19. That would make it correct.



I suggest you guys and gals take a looksee at this verse:

"Hatred stirreth up strifes, but love covereth all sins." (Proverbs 10:12)

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Now, I am defending those whom you would not hesitate to eliminate and give an early one-way trip to Hell. I desire the Kingdom of God, and I wish to bring as many of my friends, His creations, alongside me as I can. I will continue to do this until the day my body perishes. And on Judgment Day, I want Him to say...

There's your first mistake. God cares not what you want Him to say. He makes the choices, not us, and not you.

"Ah! Welcome, my son! Hmm? Who are these people that accompany you?"
"They are my friends, my Lord. Your sons and daughters."
"What's this? Witchcraft? Drunkedness? Adultery? Such things cannot exist in My Kingdom! They must b--"
And Jesus would cut in: "Wait, Father! These people knew Me, and I them. Should they not be granted entry into Your Kingdom of Heaven?"

God is Jesus, and Jesus is God. He won't be arguing with Himself. Rather, He will say to your God-hating friends:

Matthew 7: 21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Or something like that...It's much more dramatic in my head, but who knows how it will be in actuality?

I believe the Lord tells you in Matthew 7, and also in Luke 13, exactly how it will be in actuality.

It's time to give up your imaginary friend (your made-up Jesus, who does what YOU want Him to do), and your imaginary skydaddy (your made-up God, who in your warped mind is NOT Jesus, and who ALSO does what YOU want Him to do), and start worshipping the One True Three-Headed God -- Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

So I'm not allowed to be 100% sure of my salvation? What doubting thoughts!

"But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him." (Jeremiah 17:7)

The saved are 100% sure of their salvation. The unsaved don't know whether they will be saved in the future.

Read the story of the adultress in John 8, and take a gander at what Jesus does.

He tells her to go and sin no more. John 8 is not a license to sin, as so many liberals take it. John 8 teaches us that forgiveness comes with repentance.

Tell me, which of you can cast the first stone?

Any saved Christian can. The passage says, "he who is without sin", not "he who has never sinned". What is the difference, you may ask? Plenty. Like all men, I have committed sin in the past. However, when I got saved, all of my sin was washed away, so I am now without sin.

1John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

It's not possible for me to understand how "Unsaved Unwelcome" guides people to heaven? Perhaps, but then again, Phillipians 4:13 says otherwise. Surely, with Christ's aid, you can help me understand your methods!

You have free will, so Jesus won't force you to understand something you are willfully and deliberately misunderstanding.

It has already been explained to you. We are to go out and evangelize -- THAT is how we guide people to Heaven. The Bible says that we are not to invite the ungodly into our homes or churches, but you have already admitted to picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to follow.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Showing Jesus' love in a practical way is damnable?

No, putting your judgment before God’s Word is though.

Re witches: […] there's a difference between opposing and not believing in something, although the Bible does state you are either with or against Him, and there is no in-between.

At least we agree on something. There’s no in-between.

Ignoring the 'retard' comment. Name-calling has no place here, only in elementary school.

We decide what is suitable here – you have been rebuked for forcing me to correct what should have been a logical statement. If you want to go to and elementary school to catch up, that’s fine by me.

Re: pick and choose verses Because many of the laws in the Old Testament are overridden by New Testament wisdom. Example: Mosean law had something like "An eye for an eye." Jesus changed it to "Turn the other cheek." Jesus >>>>>>> Moses

Wrong. I just knew you invented bits to add to the Bible! Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You want to stone a witch? Read the story of the adultress in John 8, and take a gander at what Jesus does. Tell me, which of you can cast the first stone?

Firstly, “want” doesn’t come into it; God tells us that we should not suffer a witch to live. If Jesus wanted an adultress to live to make a point to the joos, then that’s OK with me. If you’ve got a problem with it, take it up with God.

Re:Taking verses out of context and deciding what is fluffy bunny! It's called deciding which laws take priority over others.

So, your choice is above that of God. You’re back to blaspheming boy and I ain’t pleased and neither is God.

Despite the fact that Christ and God are also separate entitites?

Wrong, they are indivisible.

Ever heard of the Divine Trinity? God is one, yet three, correct?

as I said, indivisible.

guiding the ungodly to Christ, who's death is countless times more important and impacting than my own.

Is that pride? If so, it is misplaced: Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. It strikes me that you think yourself knowledgeable but you disregard God’s Word of the Old Testament. It seems that you are the sort of person who could preach well to the gullible and simple: they would believe that your personal god is The God of The Bible.

I desire to live in the Kingdom of God for all eternity, and I wish for everyone to be able to share in that divine home, even the currently ungodly. Teach to them to be godly, and there is no longer a problem.

Then why do you avoid the God’s more robust statements, and preach only “Ooo, everyone loves everyone else, no one goes to hell and even Moslems, Homers, and blasphemers are loved and will live in Paradise?” Son, it’s not like that, Luke 19:27 – look it up. Christ offered Salvation only to those who followed Him and The Trinity’s Every Word.

Yours [i.e. your duty] is not to question God or to impose your pathetic intelligence and ill-thought out morals on The Greatest Being. Yours (and mine) [i.e. your and my duty] is to obey Him. Your last two sentences make little to no grammatical sense.

To you, may be not, but your limited intellect may hold you back from much understanding. I’ve put some parentheses in to help – God doesn’t usually have much time for retards, I suspect He has even less for those who know nothing of Christianity yet who espouse liberal views in His Name.

I'm also curious as to how my intentions of getting people into heaven is blasphemous.

Ever heard the saying, “The path to Hell is paved with good intention.”? Read this verse, Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Then look up “False prophets.” 2Pe:2:1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Repent of my daily sin? I do it frequently.

The key things here are “sincerity” and “understanding why the sin was a sin.”

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Repent of my daily sin? I do it frequently.

Why are you continuing to sin, if you are Saved?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Looks like some of us in this forum did not attend Sunday school please make this a priority to research and find facts about God and Jesus and not making assumptions

Amen! Those facts can all be found in the Bible.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Passerby]

Time for a mile-long post >_<; Goodness...

To start off, I would like to apologize for my overuse of red and bolded text. I was unaware it was an offense worthy of an infraction. I saw no rules or regulations in the forums stating such. Anyway...

No, putting your judgment before God’s Word is though.

Understandable. God is the Judge of All Souls, and He will have His say. But Jesus Christ is God, too, and He said [Mark 12:30-31]. Therefore, those commandments should take place over all others, since they are "the greatest" and "second-greatest" commandments. In America, if a State (lesser) law conflicts with a Federal (greater) law, then the Federal (greater) law takes priority. But if they do not conflict, then follow both. And even then, it is sometimes difficult to do; but still, the law can be rewritten, edited, or amended in any way the lawmaker sees fit. Jesus "rewrote" a good bit of the laws of the Old Testament. Since Jesus is God, and God is the Lawmaker, then Jesus is also the Lawmaker, which means He has the authority to change His own laws.

At least we agree on something. There’s no in-between.

Right, so turn your enemies into allies! Change them from "against God" to "for God", rather than change them from alive to dead. Killing something or someone does not necessarily mean to damage its/his/her body until it ceases to function; the word "kill" can be used metaphorically, like "killing off" a bad habit...

We decide what is suitable here – you have been rebuked for forcing me to correct what should have been a logical statement. If you want to go to and elementary school to catch up, that’s fine by me.

So name-calling is perfectly fine with you? I do have a few choice words for you, but I will withhold them:

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." (Ephesians 4:29-32)

"...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." (Galatians 5:23-24)


A witch can--and probably does--know who Christ is and the calibur of His power, but can still reject and/or fear Him and it as well, especially if someone has tried to kill him/her for it. To believe in something is to absolutely know that it's there, without question.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." (James 2:19)

Wrong. I just knew you invented bits to add to the Bible!

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Inventing bits to add to the Bible, am I?

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

Mosean law had something like "An eye for an eye." Jesus changed it to "Turn the other cheek." Jesus >>>>>>> Moses

Matches up pretty well, wouldn't you agree?


To further back up Jesus' anti-revenge attitude:

"Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:17-21)

Firstly, “want” doesn’t come into it; God tells us that we should not suffer a witch to live. If Jesus wanted an adultress to live to make a point to the joos, then that’s OK with me. If you’ve got a problem with it, take it up with God.

As much as it is commanded to follow God's law, it is also your choice to follow. Another question would be: why do obey Him? Is it fear or love? For me, it's a bit of both, but both are not directed towards God. I obey commands out of love because God seems like a great guy, and it'd be nice to live with Him forever. But I obey out of fear for some of those whom I hold dearly, such as my witch friends. I fear that they will suffer for all eternity while I get to enjoy heaven, and I don't want that for them. Like it states in 1 Corinthians, I will be like love, and not hold any past wrongs against them. I will be patient and kind, because that is how God is:

"The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever. He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities." (Psalms 103:8-10)


"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation..." (2 Peter 3:15)

The only reason folks like witches--or rather, anyone who commits a sin, intentionally or not--are not struck down every single time they perform magick is that God is merciful, and allows them more time for them to be saved. When someone is merciful, it means they will not punish you for what you've done, no matter how much you deserve it. God is merciful, Jesus is merciful, and therefore, Christians (actually, everybody) should be merciful as well.

If you choose to follow Exodus 22:18, but fail to have mercy, then what kind of a Christian are you? If you don't want a witch to be a witch, merely take away the magick! But in case all that fails to drive my point home, I have some analogies:

\Remove a projectile weapon from a ranger, and he/she's practically useless! The ranger can no longer use his/her keen eye to strike from a distance.
\Remove tools from a carpenter, then what good is he/she? He/she cannot hammer wooden boards together with nails, much less make boards by aid of a saw.
\Remove clay from a potter, and he/she has nothing to shape or mold! How is he/she to create bowls and cups?
\Remove witchcraft from a witch, whether harmful or beneficial (yes, that kind of witchcraft exists), then he/she is...just another person.

If you remove the tools that are needed to bring out the full effect of one's skill, then what good is that skill? You would need to train them to gain a different skill! While you may have a difficult time removing the actual magick from a witch, you can simply ask them to stop. Sometimes, it works! Others are a little stubborn and might curse you, which I doubt is very fun, persevere! Don't like it? Well, since you seem to view witchcraft so negatively, how about we take a look at something somewhat analogous to witchcraft: alcoholism

Drunkedness and its consequences are mentioned more than forty times in the Bible, if I recall correctly. Alcoholism is a physical and psychological dependency on alcoholic beverages (or rather, the feeling one gets from getting drunk), but one can recover from it! Remove the alcohol from the alcoholic, and you have a person who stills knows how to drink, where to get it, and where it can be done in secret. However, they must show much self-restraint, which is actually painful to do. As you know, the ingestion of alcohol is, by definition, necessary to develop alcoholism. But guess what: so is the practicing of magick by a witch. So, if they "aren't allowed" to perform magick, and practice an insane amount of self-restraint, then they can eventually overcome the problem! Of course, a little Christ-like counsel never hurt.

And sh'zam, no more witch! Now, you have another soul to save by leading him/her to Christ!

So, your choice is above that of God. You’re back to blaspheming boy and I ain’t pleased and neither is God.

I'm following what I know, which are several verses that I've taken to heart: several Psalms and Proverbs, the Ten Commandments, as well as the Two Greatest Commandments (backed by 1 Corinthians 13:4-7), and various other verses. If I am unsure what to do in a situation, I search my Bible for an appropriate verse or two.

Wrong, they are indivisible.

Mind explaining this, then?

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'" (Matthew 3:16-17)

And this:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." (Romans 1:7)






God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are clearly addressed as separate entities in various places in the Bible, even though they are all the same being as well. Jesus Himself refers to God the Father as if He were and watches the Holy Spirit descend from heaven. Perhaps it was done this way so that we have:

1. God, the Father, who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, created all things, and can eradicate them all the same;
2. God, the Son (Christ Jesus), so that we could see God and all his glory in a physical form, with skin, blood, and bones; and finally,
3. God, the Spirit, which has the capability to dwell within one's heart, should one allow it to, and guide and mentor Its host to a better lifestyle, so that the host may enter Heaven to rejoin the Father and Son.

The Holy Spirit and Jesus could be seen as extensions of God Himself, just like if one were to wield a sword and swing it. Let's assume the hilt had, somehow or another, was welded to one's hand, and could not be removed. The sword acts as an extension of the arm, reaching out to strike what was before unreachable. By certain laws of physics (namely Newton's), the sword is practically part of the swinging arm, but it can still be viewed as separate from the body of the wielder. Separate parts of a greater whole, kind of like an apple. You have the skin, the meat, and the seeds. The skin is Jesus, able to be touched by man; God is the meat, flavorful and juicy; the Holy Spirit is the seeds, able to grow more trees. I had some seed-planting "reap what you sow" analogy going there, but it's a little funky

Is that pride? If so, it is misplaced: Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. It strikes me that you think yourself knowledgeable but you disregard God’s Word of the Old Testament. It seems that you are the sort of person who could preach well to the gullible and simple: they would believe that your personal god is The God of The Bible.

I was hardly being prideful, merely hypothetical and hopeful. If you want to follow God until the end of time, you have to be willing to give your life even for those who don't deserve it, just like Jesus did.

I disregard some of the Old Testament laws because they were done away with and/or changed by the Lord Jesus Christ. (I can't believe I'm saying this again.)

Also, why can't God be my personal God? Wasn't that the whole point of our creation?

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." (Ephesians 1:4)

He was already thinking about us before anything even existed?! Amazing! He cares so much that He took the time to form countless people in His mind, and give them all a purpose: to love and be loved, to get back home, and help each other get home. We are going home to Dad, as I sometimes call Him; He is our Father, after all!

Then why do you avoid the God’s more robust statements, and preach only “Ooo, everyone loves everyone else, no one goes to hell and even Moslems, Homers, and blasphemers are loved and will live in Paradise?” Son, it’s not like that, Luke 19:27 – look it up. Christ offered Salvation only to those who followed Him and The Trinity’s Every Word.

I do not preach such things. John 3:16, is quite clear on the one and only way to heaven. If that wasn't enough, then it's a good thing John 14:6 was written:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

It's impossible to be both Muslim (or Moslem) and a Christian at the same time:

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and [Buddah, Zeus, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.]." (Luke 16:13)

In response to Luke 19:27: again, turn His enemies into allies! Turn them into humble disciples of Jesus Christ, baptise them, and teach them to love the Lord, as is commanded. Send them out to gain even more allies of Christ! No enemies left? Awesome, that means it's time to go Home!

To you, may be not, but your limited intellect may hold you back from much understanding. I’ve put some parentheses in to help – God doesn’t usually have much time for retards, I suspect He has even less for those who know nothing of Christianity yet who espouse liberal views in His Name.

Of course my intellect is limited; it pales in comparison to God's wisdom! He is omniscient; he knows all there is to know. I am a mere human with a limited mind God hasn't much time for retards? HA! God has all the time in the world! After all, He is the only one who knows exactly when the world's end will come, is He not? (I'm not talking about 2 Timothy 3:1-6)

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

Ever heard the saying, “The path to Hell is paved with good intention.”? Read this verse, Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Then look up “False prophets.” 2Pe:2:1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Nope. Never. But yes, while no amount of niceness by itself will get you into heaven, it can do something interesting:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18)

By being nice, someone will hopefully ask me why I'm so nice. I can honestly respond "I try to be nice and do the right thing because it makes God happy, and it makes me happy, too! Do you know the story of Jesus...?"

The key things here are “sincerity” and “understanding why the sin was a sin.”

Why are you continuing to sin, if you are Saved?

If it were really that easy to avoid sin, I would, but it is impossible to walk completely as Jesus walked; sinless and perfect. I can try to match as many steps as I want, but I will stumble, and He will lift me up:

"...weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:9)

All sin is derived from seven cardinals: Anger, Lust, Greed, Gluttony, Laziness, Pride, and Envy. If someone posted an image of a very attractive woman in her 'full glory', could you honestly tell me that you would not lust for her for even a fraction of a second? If you saw a group of people burning hundreds of Bibles in the middle of the street, can you honestly say that you wouldn't be angered for even a moment? The only way to avoid everything completely would be to lock yourself in a room, by yourself, or bury yourself under twenty feet of dirt, and hope you survive. But wait! Doing nothing is a sin too!

Somehow or another, Jesus managed to avoid sin completely. At least until the moment He bore the weight of our transgressions, taking all of our past, present, and future sins upon Himself, dying and taking them all to the grave. If anyone else was able to do that, then Jesus wouldn't be so special, and His gift would be a waste. That is why we must repent of our daily sins, because there is virtually no way to avoid them all the time...

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The saved are 100% sure of their salvation. The unsaved don't know whether they will be saved in the future.

So I'm covered!

He tells her to go and sin no more. John 8 is not a license to sin, as so many liberals take it. John 8 teaches us that forgiveness comes with repentance.

This is sort of what I was getting at. While it is not a license to sin, I was trying to drive the point that God's Judgment will come, but is it really our place to take away the second (third, fourth, fifth, etc.) chance that God has allowed them? Giving someone a premature death by stoning for sinning really isn't our place, but you've addressed this...

Any saved Christian can. The passage says, "he who is without sin", not "he who has never sinned". What is the difference, you may ask? Plenty. Like all men, I have committed sin in the past. However, when I got saved, all of my sin was washed away, so I am now without sin.

1John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Very well. One of the better points I've seen here. But again, is it really our place to take away the next chance an unsaved person got from God?

You have free will, so Jesus won't force you to understand something you are willfully and deliberately misunderstanding.

Perhaps. I guess it just bugs me so much that my head isn't clear enough to understand it.

It has already been explained to you. We are to go out and evangelize -- THAT is how we guide people to Heaven. The Bible says that we are not to invite the ungodly into our homes or churches, but you have already admitted to picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to follow.

Question: Does this mean that even if the lost soul wishes to get saved while you are at your home or at church, you would cast them away saying something like "Begone, unsaved trash!" or is that simply for people who want to cause a ruckus and stir up trouble?

===============================

Looks like some of us in this forum did not attend Sunday school please make this a priority to research and find facts about God and Jesus and not making assumptions old

Yeah, I was so worn-out from work on Saturday night that I slept through my alarm for church (buzzing at 9:30 am) and didn't wake up until everyone got home around 1 pm

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Originally Posted by Passerby

Mosean law had something like "An eye for an eye." Jesus changed it to "Turn the other cheek." Jesus >>>>>>> Moses Matches up pretty well, wouldn't you agree?

To further back up Jesus' anti-revenge attitude:

"Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:17-21)

I will not reply to all your points, suffice it to say you are correct where you agree with me and God and otherwise wrong.

However, I see one of you mistakes. There is no conflict between “an eye for an eye” and “Turn the other cheek”. They are different concepts; one is a statement of public law, the other of private law.

We agree a system of punishment to be meted out to the design of our political representatives and we agree a code of conduct amongst ourselves. Christ did not complain that crucifixion was unjust*, He did not ask those who did it to stop, He asked forgiveness for them, a nice touch, as they did not know what they were doing.

God has set out laws and prescribed punishment. Now, as you know, Landover is working to a theocracy. This system would bring back the “Hammurabi Code” of Godly laws and at the same time, as criminals were stoned, crucified, and otherwise maimed, imprisoned and/or put to death in fitting manner, would allow the victim to forgive them and be cool about it.

*1st Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


*Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

*Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.