Hi there...i'm new here

[Orthodox]

Hi everyone,

I didn't know where to post this on your forum but i'm an Orthodox Christian and just had some questions and would like to start a dialog with you.

There are many topics to be discussed but I don't want to write pages worth as i'm looking to have a friendly back and forth online discussion.

I appreciate your acceptance for discussing your beliefs as I know these are personal and close to our hearts. I hope and pray my topic doesn't become too heated that we lose sight of the goal of dialog.

I'll just begin with a simple point on the Bible. It is my understanding that the bible is a collection of books. Now the debate on what was to be included in the bible was not done until the 7th century or so. I could be wrong on this point but I think we can agree it was not before the 4th century. Now the different books of the bible and many other writing by the Church Fathers definetly existed in the early years of christiantiy. The writings and the letters that were written were read at the secret services held by christians during the time of persecution.
Obviously all of the christian writings could not fit into 1 collection of books, so certain ones were chosen.
My point is that the Bible is essentially (though not to be reduced in importance) a summary of Christian beliefs. Reading the bible and quoting verses without looking at the context of the chapter is like walking without a compass. It is easy to get off track and find yourself somewhere else.

Christian history is so rich and extensive that it is almost insulting to assume it has nothing to offer the world except 4 gospels and some letters written by the apostles. What of the countless saints and their writings and experiences?

[Bob4God]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

I have moved this thread from False Religions and Cults into the introduction forum, because "Hi there... i'm new here" is not a cult or false religion.

The Bible is the inerrant word of GOD, and He would never let anything happen to it that He didn't approve of, so no silly debates about what books should go into the Bible and which should be thrown out could possibly skew the clear and simple messages and themes that maintain perfect harmony with one-another from Genesis to Revelations.

If you think we've taken anything out of context, please show us where.

[Don the Baptist]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

Actually I think we should start with the orthodox doctrine of theosis, which says basically that we can "become by grace what God is by nature".

Umm, is this saying that WE can become GOD if we really try hard?? If we can clear that up then perhaps we can be qualified to move on to the inerrant, perfect, infallible Holy Bible (KJV Only of course).

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

Well if we must clear Theosis up first before we can move on....

The answer to your question is yes.

Through God's grace individuals (saints) were seen to do wonderous things. There are many readings of the lives of saints that were seen to do wonderous things.

But these saints never saught prestige or power in this world and did not advertise what they did fearing the sin of pride. They worked for the glory of God and not to their own glory.

Jesus calls for us to have faith and to practice what we believe. But man is fallen and we do doubt and make mistakes. Many things have been done in Christ's name that i'm sure he would not approve of. But true christianity is not found in great cathedrals...it is in the hearts of individuals.

Through God's grace we can become what God is by nature. Jesus said he would never leave us without witnesses. Those witnesses are the Saints, those who possess God's grace. And there are saints among us even today.

And with regards to the bible, God is not in direct control of what happens. He has given us free will. If, as you said, God would not allow anything to happen to the bible he doesn't approve of...then how do you explain the MANY diffferent versions of the bible that exist today? Man is in control of his own actions. But you are right in that God does preserve truth and those who seek it will not find it so far out of reach.

And to put it bluntly, the bible is not the Word of God...Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible as we have it, is the written record translated down through the ages. It does not dimish in value and should still be revered for what it represents but we are not Muslims. We do not have a book that was thrown down from heaven into our hands.
For Islam, a book came down from heaven.
For Christianity, Jesus - the very Word of God - came down from heaven.

What is your compass when you read the bible since it is your only book? What is it that keeps you on track with correct understanding?

I ask seeking information and to better understand you

[eliot mayfield]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

How many compasses do you need? Is one true compass not enough? Do you really want 4 compasses pointing in different directions as you wander around in circles lost?

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

What is your one true compass?

And if you have many compass verifiying which is the correct way...is that not better? (analogy of the church fathers, saints, etc)

How would you know if your one compass is working?

And your analogy doesn't work as compass only point north....not in every which way

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

What is your one true compass?

And if you have many compass verifiying which is the correct way...is that not better? (analogy of the church fathers, saints, etc)

How would you know if your one compass is working?

And your analogy doesn't work as compass only point north....not in every which way

Friend the compass is obvious enough; Jesus, threw the KJV 1611. All other compasses point towards hell and damnation.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

If Brother Mayfield says you need one compass that is all you need.

I suggest you put 4 compasses close together and see what happens – they point in every which way! This is because of the Miracle of magnetism for which science has no answer.

I find discussing the Lord of Hosts with a retard tiring – please up your game.

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

If jesus is your compass do you throw out everything else?

The Apostles?
The early church?
The saints?

And it is not sufficent to say that if he says you need only 1 compass then thats all you need. That is willful blindness. All are called to answer for their beliefs and actions. Having faith and being ignorant are two different things. It is on this point that many Christians fall and have their own beleifs that are contrary to original christianity and give the wrong idea of the faith.

The apostles joined Christ because they saw the fulfullment of Judiasm with him...The jews at the time wanted a conquering hero to oust the Romans...but God is greater than earthly power.

And I apologise if the analogy of the compass is difficult for you to understand. You do not hold them close together...you take the different compasses and check the direction your heading seperately.

The idea is simple checks and balances to make sure your heading in the right direction.

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

As you said "All other compasses point to damnation and hell"

That means you go against Jesus. He appointed the Apostles to spread the gospel and minister to the people. They received the Holy Spirit and passed on their responsibilities.

You deny the saints? you deny the very apostles?

This is not christian.

I hope you have not made yourself clear

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

As you said "All other compasses point to damnation and hell"

That means you go against Jesus. He appointed the Apostles to spread the gospel and minister to the people. They received the Holy Spirit and passed on their responsibilities.

You deny the saints? you deny the very apostles?

This is not christian.

I hope you have not made yourself clear

That depends on how you define an apostle or a saint, doesn't it friend?

Paul is clearly speaking for Jesus. Or rather Jesus speaking threw Paul. I have heard the Greek Orthadox church claim that the Byzantine Emperor was one of the Apostles, I certainly wouldn't accept Christ spoke threw Emperor Alexios Komenos I. For one thing if Jesus did use Alexios the KJV1611 would have mentioned it.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

I'm wondering what an "Orthodox Christian" is. Are you a boy-buggering Greek? So far you have been very hateful and judgmental, but very short on details. You (mostly) don't even bother to show enough respect to properly capitalize words like "Jesus" or "Christian." And I have yet to see a single verse of God's Holy Word out of you.

I'd like to know more about you. What church do you attend? How old are you? Please tell us about yourself.

Our church doctrine can be viewed HERE. What is yours?

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

Indeed it does matter how you define Apostle or Saint.

For simplicity we'll take the 12 apostles and ignore the 70 are also considered apostles at that time. Do you accept their teachings? They are not all in the bible but they were tasked with spreading the word as commanded by Jesus.

As for saints, the Orthodox church has criteria...one cannot be a saint because of popularity. It must be revealed in some way. Martyerdom is one way of sainthood, but what of those that arn't not killed for christ?
It is revealed through uncorrupted relics, miracles etc.

Do you accept these? Do you accept the thousands that were killed for christ in the early days? There are even those persecuted for christ and killed in modern times...what of them?

And I have not heard of that claim as i'm not Greek Orthodox...but if they say he is one of the original 12 than that is false...if they mean it as a follower of Christ than that can be so...in that sense we are Apostles.

[Orthodox]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

Please quote which of my posts were hateful and judgemental and I will try and correct.

If i failed to capitalzie those words then it must be an isolated matter as I do try to do that out of respect. Forgive me.

If you believe I have been short on details in my posts please ask for more information on certain topics and I will provide it. I did not want to take up so much space by posting long essays.

I am not Greek. And I apologise to any Greeks viewing the previous post as I'm sure the adjectives used to describe Greeks was not meant to be hurtful to you but to me.

From a 3rd party source here is a summary link to the overal Eastern Orthodox Chruch

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/easternorthodox_1.shtml

and here is a link to 1 website of the North American Orthodox

http://www.oca.org/MVorthchristiansnamericaTOC.asp?SID=1

I go to a North American Orthodox Church... I am almost 24 years old and as far as quotes from the bible...

"Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the sons of God."
"Blessed are the pure of heart; for they shall see God."

[Don the Baptist]

Re: Hi there...i'm new here

And to put it bluntly, the bible is not the Word of God...

Blasphemous Heretic, I am truly offended at your vile utterings. Back in the day you would have parted company with your head for even thinking such tomfoolery! Actually in Freehold you still could.