[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

For Pastor Isaac Peters,

First, isn't Jesus the fulfillment, the messiah, the one we've been waiting for? The one who the Jews were praying to come in power and raise them on high for the glory of God? He did, as you said, not come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to be that which fulfills the prophets and the laws and the scriptures, that all might know God in his majesty and might.

In the Psalms, the word 'hate' from the original Arabic equivocally means 'Anger', 'Wrath', and 'Fury'. That sentence can also read as "Those workers of iniquity have thine wrath." By definition, as I've stated, Hate is a selfish emotion, and self-centeredness is evil. And God, as a perfect being of all good and love, cannot have evil in him, because he is all Good. Were he hateful, as you suggest, he wouldn't be God. Instead, he would simply be a powerful being that is prone to evil as we are. Right? If God wasn't good, he wouldn't be perfect?

And as for Mary Etheldreda

As of yet, as I have read the previous sentiments on this board towards all those who have differing opinions, I am going to refrain from introducing myself beyond my own opinions. I may do so at a later date, but for now, I will, as I stated, refrain.


On another topic, I read that you claim Catholics worship Mary, the mother of God. Where do you draw evidence for this claim? Is it from the prayer that Catholics use? The Hail Mary?

"Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death,
Amen."

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

For Pastor Isaac Peters,

First, isn't Jesus the fulfillment, the messiah, the one we've been waiting for? The one who the Jews were praying to come in power and raise them on high for the glory of God? He did, as you said, not come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to be that which fulfills the prophets and the laws and the scriptures, that all might know God in his majesty and might.

In the Psalms, the word 'hate' from the original Arabic equivocally means 'Anger', 'Wrath', and 'Fury'. That sentence can also read as "Those workers of iniquity have thine wrath." By definition, as I've stated, Hate is a selfish emotion, and self-centeredness is evil. And God, as a perfect being of all good and love, cannot have evil in him, because he is all Good. Were he hateful, as you suggest, he wouldn't be God. Instead, he would simply be a powerful being that is prone to evil as we are. Right? If God wasn't good, he wouldn't be perfect?

And as for Mary Etheldreda

As of yet, as I have read the previous sentiments on this board towards all those who have differing opinions, I am going to refrain from introducing myself beyond my own opinions. I may do so at a later date, but for now, I will, as I stated, refrain.


On another topic, I read that you claim Catholics worship Mary, the mother of God. Where do you draw evidence for this claim? Is it from the prayer that Catholics use? The Hail Mary?

"Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death,
Amen."

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

Mary is dead. She can't intervene for anyone.

Old Testament..was written and intended for a time of life for people who lived under constant threat of harm by those peoples and kingdoms that thought them hazardous, such as the Romans (ex Nero)

I am getting confused - how could Nero be mentioned in the Old Testament? Where are the Romans in the Old Testament?

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Mary is dead. She can't intervene for anyone.

I know she is dead, but she is in Heaven, no? Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

I am getting confused - how could Nero be mentioned in the Old Testament? Where are the Romans in the Old Testament?

I was not saying that Nero was in the old Testament. I was simply stating that people like him existed and continue to exist. (ex Nebuchadnezzar, Osama) I merely meant that the persecution that they were undergoing is something that Jesus was talking about.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

That's not what The Bible teaches me. Where are you getting your information about Heaven?

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

That's not what The Bible teaches me. Where are you getting your information about Heaven?

From the teaching Magisterium of the Rock upon which the Church is built, as established by Christ on earth.

Matthew 16:17-19 "And Jesus answered him "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."

In these two passages, Christ not only establishes the Church on earth, but then immediately elects one man to then be it's head. And that man, and those men with him, then continued his teachings, and their followers, those followers of Christ, those first Christians, became the Catholic Church.

~DD

[Didymus Much]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

...the word 'hate' from the original Arabic...

The WHAT???!

...(ex Nebuchadnezzar, Osama)...

Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg." not "ex" (which means "used to be" [as in ex-gay] or "from" [as in ex libris, from the library of]).

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

The WHAT???!



Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg." not "ex" (which means "used to be" [as in ex-gay] or "from" [as in ex libris, from the library of]).

1st Yes, I know, odd.
2nd Thank you. I didn't know that.

[Jedediah]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

I know she is dead, but she is in Heaven, no? Like anyone else on earth or in Heaven, we can always ask for them to pray for us.

If you had bothered to actually read the Holy Bible (KJV 1611), you would know that the dead have not physical or mental activity (see, for example, Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 and Psalm 146:4). Every person who dies, whether righteous or unsaved, sleeps in the ground until the Resurrection (e.g., Daniel 12:2, John 3:13, Acts 2:29).

God promises to resurrect all those who have died, sinner and True Christian™ alike, and judge each and every one according to his or her works.

Revelation 20:11-12
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

God's Word says nothing about floating up to Heaven immediately after death, where you will talk to Saint Peter at the pearly gates and be welcomed by previously deceased friends and family. Everyone will be judged at once.

Praying to the dead is an exercise in futility. Jesus tells us that rather than praise His mother, we should hearken to His Word and obey His commandments.

Luke 11:27-28
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What you are demonstrating with your ignorance of that which you profess to believe is that you cannot be a True Christian™ if you don't read the Bible.

My family and I will pray for you, that you may begin to take seriously that which forms the basis for those things you profess belief in, yet of which you demonstrate ignorance.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

If you are referring to this, I get it. It sounds like Catholics are putting Mary on par with God. However, I have it in good faith (heh) that the prayer is similar to asking someone's mother to intervene for them on their behalf to that person. The mother is only held in a higher position because of who she bore, not who she is. In this case, Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, like we would ask others to pray for us, though Mary, as she is in Heaven, has a little more leeway than most. But she is not on par, or anywhere near God or being worshiped by Catholics. Again, I see where that belief comes from, but it is simply a misinterpretation.

~DD

This is an incorrect statement.

The Second Vatican Council (Lumen gentium ## 61-62), said:

... in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace.

This motherhood of Mary in the economy of grace lasts without interruption, from the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation, and which she unhesitatingly bore with under the cross, even to the perpetual consummation of all the elect. For after being assumed into heaven, she has not put aside this saving function, but by her manifold intercession, she continues to win the gifts of eternal salvation for us. By her motherly love, she takes care of the brothers of her Son who are still in pilgrimage and in dangers and difficulties, until they be led through to the happy fatherland. For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer...."

Let's take a closer look at this. By "economy of grace," the catholic church refers to the idea that grace can be gained and lost. This explains why the sacraments are of vital importance to the Romanists. If one sins in a grave way, so as to reject the entirety of God's "salvific grace" (a catholic invention) from their soul, that person will surely spend eternity in a spiritual [second] death. This catholics refer to as "mortal sin." If one sins in such a way as to not reject the entirety of God's salvific grace, the consequences are understood to place the repentant person in a state of expurgation until the soul is free from all sin and there remains only love for God. It is from this concept, found nowhere in the Holy Bible, the catholics get the word "purgatory." Rejection of the catholic notion of this "economy of grace" and subsequent necessity of the sacraments (and therefore presence of the ambassadors of the Holy Roman Empire in all towns and cities throughout Europe at the time) is one of the offenses for which Martin Luther was excommunicated.

This "economy of grace" includes the idea that the dead in Heaven, those whose souls are perfectly cleansed of all sin, can intercede on behalf of sinners here on earth. Mary holds a unique position in that she was born without sin, according to the Roman cult (eventually coining the term "Immaculate Conception" to make it sound official). Being born without sin means she never would have had a soul tainted with sin. Ever. In other words, the "amount" of grace, if you will, is in all practical effects, equal to that of Jesus. For this reason the Roman cult calls her by such titles as Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. They may say "no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer," but if you think about this for any length of time, you'll find that the lip service given is not born out in their theology. In reality, catholic theology makes no distinction between the practical effect of Mary's grace and the practical effect of Christ's grace. In other words, they say she is not equal but she is, in fact, no different practically speaking. She is not sub-par with Christ, she is equal to Him, which makes her a goddess in that cult, and why the Good LORD opened mine own eyes and delivered me from the coal chute straight to Hell my own parents had unwittingly placed me in at my birth.

[Didymus Much]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

...Point of grammatical form: if you want to use a contraction for "for example", the correct form is "eg."...

Seeing Jedediah use that in his post, but as e.g., I checked Wiki (which I really should do before opening my mouth), and he is correct, it should be e.g. (commonly used with a comma after, but that's more a style thing than a requirement).

I'd offer to give myself ten lashes with a wet noodle, but that would invite infractions for promotion of self-mortification and Pastafarianism, so I'll just shut up for now.

[DiscipuliDei]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

If you had bothered to actually read the Holy Bible (KJV 1611), you would know that the dead have not physical or mental activity (see, for example, Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 and Psalm 146:4). Every person who dies, whether righteous or unsaved, sleeps in the ground until the Resurrection (e.g., Daniel 12:2, John 3:13, Acts 2:29).

God promises to resurrect all those who have died, sinner and True Christian™ alike, and judge each and every one according to his or her works.

Revelation 20:11-12
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

God's Word says nothing about floating up to Heaven immediately after death, where you will talk to Saint Peter at the pearly gates and be welcomed by previously deceased friends and family. Everyone will be judged at once.

Praying to the dead is an exercise in futility. Jesus tells us that rather than praise His mother, we should hearken to His Word and obey His commandments.

Luke 11:27-28
And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

What you are demonstrating with your ignorance of that which you profess to believe is that you cannot be a True Christian™ if you don't read the Bible.

My family and I will pray for you, that you may begin to take seriously that which forms the basis for those things you profess belief in, yet of which you demonstrate ignorance.

And here is my point: You focus everything on the Bible. That is amazing. But you claim to have the absolute truths of the bible understood. The thing with God is that no one can ever know Him on earth. We can only do what we believe he wishes. For only through God is there salvation. But how can you know God? By reading the scriptures, praying to him in union with the angels and the saints, and by receiving the Sacraments. I never claimed to know anything. part of being Christian is having faith. No, I don't know everything. I don't know what God wants for everyone. No, I don't have my bible memorized from cover to cover and I can't quote it at will. Instead, I do what I believe God is telling me to do; Go to Church. Evangelize. Pray. Be the best Catholic I can be. I do read my bible. I do reflect on it. And when I have questions about what God is telling me through my reflections, I ask one of those who is in the apostolic line of the Church, from Peter and the apostles, to the Priests of the Church today. I know that you have clearly defined me as a 'papist', and 'unsaved trash', and most likely you will ban me out of hatred for me and mine, but that matters not. I will continue to pray for all of you to know him. That we all may love him, serve him, and know him in this life, so that we may be happy with him in the next.

God bless you all, and may you be kept close to his heart
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
Amen.
~DD

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

And here is my point: You focus everything on the Bible. That is amazing. But you claim to have the absolute truths of the bible understood. The thing with God is that no one can ever know Him on earth. We can only do what we believe he wishes. For only through God is there salvation. But how can you know God? By reading the scriptures, praying to him in union with the angels and the saints, and by receiving the Sacraments. I never claimed to know anything. part of being Christian is having faith. No, I don't know everything. I don't know what God wants for everyone. No, I don't have my bible memorized from cover to cover and I can't quote it at will. Instead, I do what I believe God is telling me to do; Go to Church. Evangelize. Pray. Be the best Catholic I can be. I do read my bible. I do reflect on it. And when I have questions about what God is telling me through my reflections, I ask one of those who is in the apostolic line of the Church, from Peter and the apostles, to the Priests of the Church today. I know that you have clearly defined me as a 'papist', and 'unsaved trash', and most likely you will ban me out of hatred for me and mine, but that matters not. I will continue to pray for all of you to know him. That we all may love him, serve him, and know him in this life, so that we may be happy with him in the next.

God bless you all, and may you be kept close to his heart
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
Amen.
~DD

What???

His "wishes" (AKA "commandments") are literally and liberally sprinkled throughout the Bible...and there are over 600 of them. There is no guessing or interpretation or hemming and hawing; it's all spelled out in simple, easy-to-understand language.

Why disregard such an excellent instruction manual?



Yours in Christ (NOT MARY),

Z. Smyth

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

And here is my point: You focus everything on the Bible. That is amazing. But you claim to have the absolute truths of the bible understood. The thing with God is that no one can ever know Him on earth. We can only do what we believe he wishes. For only through God is there salvation. But how can you know God? By reading the scriptures, praying to him in union with the angels and the saints, and by receiving the Sacraments. I never claimed to know anything. part of being Christian is having faith. No, I don't know everything. I don't know what God wants for everyone. No, I don't have my bible memorized from cover to cover and I can't quote it at will. Instead, I do what I believe God is telling me to do; Go to Church. Evangelize. Pray. Be the best Catholic I can be. I do read my bible. I do reflect on it. And when I have questions about what God is telling me through my reflections, I ask one of those who is in the apostolic line of the Church, from Peter and the apostles, to the Priests of the Church today. I know that you have clearly defined me as a 'papist', and 'unsaved trash', and most likely you will ban me out of hatred for me and mine, but that matters not. I will continue to pray for all of you to know him. That we all may love him, serve him, and know him in this life, so that we may be happy with him in the next.

God bless you all, and may you be kept close to his heart
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
Amen.
~DD

So it's OK to just make stuff up about God that feels right? I know what God wants. It's in the Bible.

[Jedediah]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

We can only do what we believe he wishes.

And how do you know what God wishes, if you would rather "feel vibes" than read the clear and unambiguous instructions that He gave us? Does your "feeling" about what it means to be a Christian supersede the verses of Scripture I provided for you above? Are you saying that you know better than God what He wants?

Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

II Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Christianity isn't a game of "make it up as you go along." There are clear expectations (not sinning, obeying God's commandments) and there are clear lines in the sand which disqualify one from being a Christian (sinning, disobeying God). However, God's expectations are not always intuitive. This is why He is very clear that we are not to lean to our own understanding, as you advocate above. He gave us clear instructions, precisely so that we don't have to think for ourselves.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Fortunately, your ignorance can be remedied. You are not the first person God has guided here, to gain a deeper understanding of what it means to be a Christian. My heart rejoices that He has brought you here, to truly grasp the Good News, in all Its breathtaking majesty.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: READ THIS BEFORE YOU FLAME US!

And here is my point: You focus everything on the Bible. That is amazing. But you claim to have the absolute truths of the bible understood. The thing with God is that no one can ever know Him on earth. We can only do what we believe he wishes. For only through God is there salvation. But how can you know God? By reading the scriptures, praying to him in union with the angels and the saints, and by receiving the Sacraments. I never claimed to know anything. part of being Christian is having faith. No, I don't know everything. I don't know what God wants for everyone. No, I don't have my bible memorized from cover to cover and I can't quote it at will. Instead, I do what I believe God is telling me to do; Go to Church. Evangelize. Pray. Be the best Catholic I can be. I do read my bible. I do reflect on it. And when I have questions about what God is telling me through my reflections, I ask one of those who is in the apostolic line of the Church, from Peter and the apostles, to the Priests of the Church today. I know that you have clearly defined me as a 'papist', and 'unsaved trash', and most likely you will ban me out of hatred for me and mine, but that matters not. I will continue to pray for all of you to know him. That we all may love him, serve him, and know him in this life, so that we may be happy with him in the next.

God bless you all, and may you be kept close to his heart
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
Amen.
~DD

I won't delete your comments, although they're only the same stuff we've all heard before. Perhaps it is possible that God might reveal additional information to us (other than that contained in The Bible). For example I could see a stranger jumping up and down and saying the letter "w" repeatedly what should I do. Well I could run off, or I could go over and assist in some way; what should I say?

Luke 21:15 [Jesus speaking] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
KJV . . look up . context

These are The Last Days. God has never made announcements ex-cathedra from your demonic vatican, stuffed with corpses and looted bling. But He may use me just as I am and He would give me words, according to His Plan For Salvation, for that maniac.

Those words would never contradict Scripture.

Everything to do with the Romish hallucination is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what God has revealed in The Bible.

It's a no-brainer.