[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Re: Devon is horrified

Hi and welcome Devon.

I am quite concerned about you and your immortal soul. My True Christian(tm) brothers and sisters have already showed you a lot a of Scripture that is in direct violation with your ideas about the Teachings of Jesus.

Since you think that God loves everybody I recommend that you read this ol' thread of mine about how God doesn't love everyone and how this notion gives rise to the Problem of Evil.

I hope you will see the light so that you can join us in Heaven

[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: Devon is horrified

Maybe Devon is gone, but my heart breaks when someone logs on here and refused to accept the true word of God, even when it is shouted right into his ear.

Let's pray for the lost soul of Devon.

[Bible Student]

Re: Devon is horrified

Maybe Devon is gone, but my heart breaks when someone logs on here and refused to accept the true word of God, even when it is shouted right into his ear.

Let's pray for the lost soul of Devon.

I think that means that came wearing sheep's clothing in order to preach instead of learn in a silly attempt to corrupt True Christians™. They don't realize that such a thing would be impossible. If someone can be swayed then they were not a True Christian™ to begin with.

Or maybe Devon read my post wherein I quoted verses suggesting snow should be left where it is. Some of our visitors are so fickle and skiddish from the start.

OK, we now have two of us praying for our dearly departed Devon. I say dearly departed because our bible tells us:

Romans 6:23 -- For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now we need at least one more because three is better than two.

Matthew 18:19-20 -- Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus said so.

[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

So how long have you been a homosexual? Don't you know that homosexuals are to be stoned to death just like disobedient children?

Never. I am not a homosexual, I never even insinuated that I was. I am a virgin, too. You do not stone children, have you not heard of forgiveness? Jesus DIED for you, your punishment has been taken, there is no need, you just ask Jesus for forgiveness.

So you are saying that our omnipotent God who wants us to obey his words is not powerful enough to make sure his words are passed down faithfully through the millennia? Perhaps you think that God is a trickster and a deceiver? Are you sure you are not confusing God with Satan?

No, where in that quote did I say anything of the sort? I am stating that you are taking a translation of original text word-for-word, as you say, and I want to know what you think of the originals. Are they discredited because they are not your KJ Bible, even though are the original texts? You didn't address any of my questions, I don't even understand the relevance of your response because nowhere do I mention anything to do with doubting God's power.

Please do tell us about your expertise in ancient Greek. Be careful. Be very, very careful. Some of us here are students of the Bible.

As it happens, I study Classical History at College and have had a short session in Ancient Greek and am due to start a ten-week course in Latin after Christmas. But I do not know much of the language, and don't pretend I do. However, that there is more than one word in Greek for 'Love' is not exclusive knowledge, you know? It's very common knowledge; I knew of them before I started college, so what's your point? I do not need to have degree in Ancient Greek to know that the English language is far limited than Greek.

Philia (φιλία philía) - friendship love
Agapē (ἀγάπη agápē) - true love - families/spouse, etc, also used for 'love of God' in the NT.
Eros (ἔρως érōs) - passionate/intimate love
Storge (στοργή storgē) - affection/natural love or acceptance

But of course, Greek words do not transliterate completely into English, so these all have other additional meanings, as well.

Disclaimer: I have never said I know any more about this language than any of you. This information is not exclusive, that is all.

[Samuel Coleridge]

Re: Devon is horrified

Never. I am not a homosexual, I never even insinuated that I was. I am a virgin, too. You do not stone children, have you not heard of forgiveness? Jesus DIED for you, your punishment has been taken, there is no need, you just ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Devon, you seem like a nice fellow. I hope they haven't ruffled your feathers too badly.
You know. I know that the Bible says to never kill. That is why people like us must work together to eliminate the death penalty. We must give these people a chance to repent and become Christians after their crimes, so that they may have a second chance at life. It's true that the condemned should be allowed to repent of their sins just like Jesus wanted.

[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

Devon, you seem like a nice fellow. I hope they haven't ruffled your feathers too badly.
You know. I know that the Bible says to never kill. That is why people like us must work together to eliminate the death penalty. We must give these people a chance to repent and become Christians after their crimes, so that they may have a second chance at life. It's true that the condemned should be allowed to repent of their sins just like Jesus wanted.

Wow, you seem to be the first 'normal' person I've met on this forum. Yesterday this was all an incredible shock - I couldn't believe this was for real and that people actually think treating others such is displayed on this forum is okay with God or even for God. Applying old testament punishments to people who only need to ask God for forgiveness to be cleansed of the sin . . . it's crazy, especially in such instances as torture which a pastor did to his wife . . .

But I now know this place is Jesus' favorite church, so am not so in shock, just concerned for other people who come here searching fro answers about God and get . . . this.

[Lycia The Repentant]

Re: Devon is horrified

Wow, you seem to be the first 'normal' person I've met on this forum. Yesterday this was all an incredible shock - I couldn't believe this was for real and that people actually think treating others such is displayed on this forum is okay with God or even for God. Applying old testament punishments to people who only need to ask God for forgiveness to be cleansed of the sin . . . it's crazy, especially in such instances as torture which a pastor did to his wife . . .

But I now know this place is Jesus' favorite church, so am not so in shock, just concerned for other people who come here searching fro answers about God and get . . . this.

Friend, I know Mr. Coleridge might seem "normal" to a fluffy bunny christian like yourself, but believe me, he is dangling precariously over the fires of Hell and needs to get right with Jesus if he ever wants to be Saved©. His (per)version of Christianity simply has NO basis whatsoever in the Bible, and you need to accept that if you ever want to reside in Heaven with us and laugh at all the degenerate sinners burning in Hell.

For example, you bring up the fact that we are working towards a world where Old Testament law still applies and then have the gall to say that that is crazy. Well, when attending services at your hippie church, did any of your pastors ever let you know that the Old Testament law still applies?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21

Not enough evidence for you? Did you know that Jesus Himself condemned the Jews for not following the Old Testament and not killing children who didn't honor their mothers and fathers?

"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye." Mark 7:9-13

How about the fact that Jesus Himself actually broadened the terms of what constitutes adultery from committing the act to merely looking at somebody with lust?

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28

If you don't like whats in the Bible and want to go to Hell, that's fine, I won't be losing any sleep over it, but will instead wipe the dust off my feet.

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet." Matthew 10:14

But what I don't understand is why you would call yourself a Christian if that's the case. Christianity isn't about rainbows and sunshine, and we True Christians™ accept that. If you can't accept that, then why hang around? Why not just fully embrace paganism, heathenism, eastern philosophies or even (God forbid) atheism? They're all a lot more palpable to the "God is love" mindset you have, and they'll all be burning equally in Hell along with false christians like yourself.

[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

Friend, I know Mr. Coleridge might seem "normal" to a fluffy bunny christian like yourself, but believe me, he is dangling precariously over the fires of Hell and needs to get right with Jesus if he ever wants to be Saved©. His (per)version of Christianity simply has NO basis whatsoever in the Bible, and you need to accept that if you ever want to reside in Heaven with us and laugh at all the degenerate sinners burning in Hell.

So one of the Ten Commandments isn't 'You shall not murder'? Because I'm pretty sure it is. Nobody's dangling near hell until they die - until then, everyone can be forgiven, everyone can come to God.

For example, you bring up the fact that we are working towards a world where Old Testament law still applies and then have the gall to say that that is crazy. Well, when attending services at your hippie church, did any of your pastors ever let you know that the Old Testament law still applies?

I never said that, I said it should be UNDERSTOOD in context with the New Testament. What I said is true - sins are forgiven by Jesus, only if you simply ask him. You do not need to punish people with beatings, etc for their sin, you should encourage them to repent, simple. Tell em how I am wrong without picking OT quotes - Jesus is there for anyone to ask his forgiveness.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19


Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the OT and created the new covenant. ( see 2 Corninthians 3)

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

Yet your King James Bible is a translation or the original texts, and still nobody has said anything about how that works with this?

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21

Can it not be interpreted in the Holy Spirit then, as it was the Holy Spirit who moved them to write? Can God not reveal himself differently to different people in the Word? The Bible does not have to be interpreted to be understood.

Not enough evidence for you? Did you know that Jesus Himself condemned the Jews for not following the Old Testament and not killing children who didn't honor their mothers and fathers?

"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye." Mark 7:9-13

'Die the death' as in go to Hell, the opposite of 'life' which is to go to heaven, not to be killed. But Jesus forgives, so that child can ask him for forgiveness like everyone else. It is only if they hold that sin in their heart do they 'die', but everyone has sin and everyone can be forgiven because of Jesus. This is where the original texts might have illuminated a little more of the context as the words for life and death vary in meaning through the Bible, similarly to 'love' in Greek, and the original languages can differentiate the closer meanings far better than English as English is a very limited language.

How about the fact that Jesus Himself actually broadened the terms of what constitutes adultery from committing the act to merely looking at somebody with lust?

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28

Where's your point? I know that. But what you are missing is that sin can be FORGIVEN. It doesn't matter how broad the definition of adultery is, you missed my point entirely, once again. Jesus is highlighting sins. He is not saying they can never be forgiven, he is saying that unforgiven, these sins lead to hell, yet everyone CAN BE FORGIVEN if they simply ask and accept Jesus as saviour. This is where 'understanding' comes in. Which, just to clarify, is utterly different to interpretation.

If you don't like whats in the Bible and want to go to Hell, that's fine, I won't be losing any sleep over it, but will instead wipe the dust off my feet.

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet." Matthew 10:14

But what I don't understand is why you would call yourself a Christian if that's the case. Christianity isn't about rainbows and sunshine, and we True Christians™ accept that. If you can't accept that, then why hang around? Why not just fully embrace paganism, heathenism, eastern philosophies or even (God forbid) atheism? They're all a lot more palpable to the "God is love" mindset you have, and they'll all be burning equally in Hell along with false christians like yourself.

I understand Christianity is not about rainbows and sunshine, I have outlined what I do not agree with already, and I won't repeat myself as I have done enough repeating. I'm curious - what do you define as 'Christian'? Is it someone who knows their Bible and obeys everything, even if they do not know Jesus, or is it someone who knows Jesus and is guided by him, no matter how much or little they know of the Bible? Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Devon is horrified

I understand Christianity is not about rainbows and sunshine, I have outlined what I do not agree with already, and I won't repeat myself as I have done enough repeating. I'm curious - what do you define as 'Christian'? Is it someone who knows their Bible and obeys everything, even if they do not know Jesus, or is it someone who knows Jesus and is guided by him, no matter how much or little they know of the Bible?

How do you know you are guided by Him if you don't know what is laid down in the Bible? How can you follow if you aren't reading the instruction manual on how to follow Him?

Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

If Jesus speaks purely into our hearts, why not just throw out the entire Bible? By your logic, we don't need it. We just have to listen to what Jesus says in our hearts, right?

[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: Devon is horrified

If Jesus speaks purely into our hearts, why not just throw out the entire Bible? By your logic, we don't need it. We just have to listen to what Jesus says in our hearts, right?

Brother Levi--You have just blown open the hole that drains away all the self proclaimed Christians who do not believe in the Bible.

It's a sad day when people are not able to understand that following the Bible's every word is the only way to salvation.

[Johannes Kirkeholm]

Re: Devon is horrified

I understand Christianity is not about rainbows and sunshine, I have outlined what I do not agree with already, and I won't repeat myself as I have done enough repeating. I'm curious - what do you define as 'Christian'? Is it someone who knows their Bible and obeys everything, even if they do not know Jesus, or is it someone who knows Jesus and is guided by him, no matter how much or little they know of the Bible? Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

A True Christian™ is of course someone who follows the entire Bible to the letter. if you don't obey the entire law you are guilty of all breaking all the commandments:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If you don't know your Bible how do you expect to know Jesus? Do your feelings tell you what God believe? Do voices in your head? How do you know that these feelings or voices come from God and not your own mind?

We often hear something like this from false christians: "My views might contradict the teachings of the Bible but I know Jesus because He speaks to my soul."

These false Christians are basically saying that they know Jesus/God better than the people who wrote the Bible. They are saying that they know Jesus/God better than people who were divenely inspired!

How prideful and arrogant can you get?

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

The Christian God is the God who is represented in the Bible. The omnibenevolent God that most false christians believe in is an invention of their own mind. An idol. And idolaters go to Hell:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[GOD=life]

Re: Devon is horrified

I have outlined what I do not agree with already

Why do you argue with people who follow the Bible? We didn't write it, we merely follow it. If you have a problem with the Bible, take it up with the author, God.

Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

No, it's not. You probably have a children's Bible with stickers of glittery hearts and carebears.

Come back when you have an actual Bible. The KJV 1611 Bible.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Devon is horrified

And still my questions on the original texts/the translations are ignored . . . nevermind then.

Simple question: Why the hang-up on the fact that the current form of God's will in writing is a translation from something else? Would God allow His Word to be disseminated so widely in a false form? Besides, we don't even HAVE original transcripts of any of the Bible. Even if we DID, those are translations of the writer's God-inspired understanding of His Will into text. ALMOST EVERYTHING is a translation of some sort. The only thing that ISN'T is when God speaks to you to tell you about his will and to direct you to read His Word in the KJV Bible.

Unless you are saying that the Bible is NOT the Word of God, in which case, where do you get your belief in Jesus form, because he isn't really discussed anywhere else in historical documents. You aren't saying that you 1) believe in Jesus, who is only really descried in the Holy Bible but 2) don't believe that the Bible is the True and Accurate word of God, are you? That would be just ...just.....insane.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Devon is horrified

Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

You DO know that over half of the Bible has nothing to do with Jesus, right? They Old Testament is where God laid down all of His rules. It is only the New Testament when God's gets upset with humanity so much that he kills (temporarily) his son, Jesus. Even then, Jesus makes it clear that the OT still applies:

Matthew 5:17-18 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Please find the closest Baptist church and take some Bible study classes.

[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

How do you know you are guided by Him if you don't know what is laid down in the Bible? How can you follow if you aren't reading the instruction manual on how to follow Him?

If Jesus speaks purely into our hearts, why not just throw out the entire Bible? By your logic, we don't need it. We just have to listen to what Jesus says in our hearts, right?

I do know what is in the Bible, I also understand it. You do not read your Bibles with the Spirit. As I have said - what of people who do not have Bibles? What of people who cannot read the law? Are they excluded from being saved because they do not have the King James? How are we to spread the word of God to other nations, and nations who may not have written languages?

I never said he speaks purely into our hearts, he does both. He teaches us in the Spirit about his Word, that is the only way we can read the Bible and not be blinded to its meaning. God shows us. He may speak into the hearts of people like in my example above, who cannot read the Bible, whether through persecution, inability or by having no means. Does God not speak into your hearts too?

It's a sad day when people are not able to understand that following the Bible's every word is the only way to salvation.

Uhh . . . no. Like, what? How can you say that? Have you not read the New Testament?

'Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." ' (John 14: 6,)

For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (2 Cor. 5:21,)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9,)

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16,)

I could quote more, but I fear you won't even read them.

The ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. That is one of the foremost basic beliefs of Christianity. Are you even being serious about this?