[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

You DO know that over half of the Bible has nothing to do with Jesus, right? They Old Testament is where God laid down all of His rules. It is only the New Testament when God's gets upset with humanity so much that he kills (temporarily) his son, Jesus.

Jesus' sacrifice was preplanned from the beginging. The Old Testament is full of prophecies and allusions to Jesus. Do I really need to explain this? Jesus is everywhere in the Old Testament - not as a person - but in spirit and in prophecy and in the stories. Jesus and God are one - how can the OT be about God and not about Jesus?

Proverbs 8:22-31 (KJV)
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Devon is horrified

[...]Is it someone who knows their Bible and obeys everything, even if they do not know Jesus, or is it someone who knows Jesus and is guided by him, no matter how much or little they know of the Bible?

You make this sound as if there are only 2 choices, and that is deceptive and most unChristian. Why! It is as if you wanted to trap us. Is this how you go about explaining Jesus in England? No wonder the country is filled with Hellbound atheists! We wish the world were full of people who know their Bible and obey everything AND know Jesus and are guided by him. Does that seem fair?

Jesus speaks the Word into our hearts, all of the Bible is about him. He IS the Word.

I agree, but then, should we not follow His every Word?

[Devon~]

Re: Devon is horrified

You make this sound as if there are only 2 choices, and that is deceptive and most unChristian. Why! It is as if you wanted to trap us. Is this how you go about explaining Jesus in England? No wonder the country is filled with Hellbound atheists! We wish the world were full of people who know their Bible and obey everything AND [COLOR=RoyalBlue]know Jesus and are guided by him. Does that seem fair?

Of course there are more choices than that, there are many different circumstances which may define a Christian, but you still refuse to answer any of my questions. I gave those two as examples because you seem to believe the ONLY way to be saved is to obey, nothing about Jesus' grace. You just ask me questions back or say something irrelevant and I just go around in circles. What about just after Jesus' death in the years before the OT scriptures were available to Gentiles? They could not go into synagogues, it was illegal, so how were they to read the scriptures and know all of them? Did Jesus say to wait to spread the Good News to the Gentiles until there was a Bible they could read? No.

Also, you don't know anything about my country, or any country that isn't your own, so don't pretend you do.

I am wasting my time asking you questions and expecting answers that actually are relevant. You pick and chose what to ignore and pick at the smaller things that I say, generally missing my entire or most of my point/s, which is oh-so ironic.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Devon is horrified

The ONLY way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. That is one of the foremost basic beliefs of Christianity. Are you even being serious about this?

Yes, you are correct, but Brother Johnny is also correct about following all the Bible. You see, for you to actually believe that Jesus Christ is your savior, you have to listen to Him (the Bible!). You can't just say "I believe in Jesus Christ", yet refuse to follow His commandments and be automatically Saved.

He addresses this issue right here:

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Read those last verses closely. Jesus is saying there are people that will call Him "Lord" and do things in His name, but because they do not do the will of the Father (The Bible's commandments), they are evil.

See, Jesus is talking about you, Devon. This is why it's time for you to wake up and become a True Christian™. Don't be that "worker of iniquity" that says "Lord, Lord!"

[Levi Jones]

Re: Devon is horrified

Of course there are more choices than that, there are many different circumstances which may define a Christian, but you still refuse to answer any of my questions. I gave those two as examples because you seem to believe the ONLY way to be saved is to obey, nothing about Jesus' grace.

What else should we believe? From Jesus' own mouth.

Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[Jedediah]

Re: Devon is horrified

If I am understanding your posts correctly, son, you conjecture that faith alone is sufficient for Salvation™ while conveniently and characteristically ignoring Scripture that does not square with your preconceived, personal opinions.

James 2
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Do you accept these Holy Words, or does the false Christ whispering into your ear (Matthew 24:24) tell you that you can reject these words like you do so many other verses of Scripture?

In your vain non-Biblical opinion, is there any reason at all to obey the Word of God?