[Justin Bill]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

I never said that UU is a coherent religion. Ours is a Gospel not of cohesion, but of hope, inclusivity, and affirmation. After all, we were created in God's image, and nobody dictated to Him what to believe. That means that I am the only person in UU who believes everything that I believe. But, as my personal hero, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., said, "You and God are a majority."

someone that was a UU minister once desribed the belief system of unitarians in a way that made sense:

"as a unitarian you can believe in everything, except for something"

and "Jesus, nice guy, only begoten son of the lord? ehh... probably not"


Personaly i find UU a little too humanist, I like my apocolpse to have some pizzaz. nothing says apocolypse like the four horseman or revelations.

the idea of a slow enviromental and social disaster created by man that is unstopable is a little too depressing for me, I like the idea of a good reaping of human flesh, where only the most holy of human flesh is dined upon in heaven.

by the way, welcome starr king grad, if you are ever in sonoma county, you can come on over some meat sausage pie.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

Unthinking tolerance for all spiritual points of view is nearly as bad as unthinking intolerance. Neither an individual nor humanity is bettered by honoring superstition and ignorance in the the name of "universal spirituality". This is where I would part ways with Unitarian Unicyclism: when superstition is honored, ignorance must lead and folly follows close behind.

I know UU members who think Wiccan rituals are just the ape's bananas. But if you honor Wicca you are honoring an artifice created by a goonybird named Gerald Gardner in the late 1940s out of whole cloth -- essentially, a superstitious lie.

When superstition is honored, ignorance must lead and folly follows close behind.

Check this . Somewhere in the cloud-strewn glories of Heaven, Jesus is weeping over the willful ignorance of Unitarian Unicyclists.

~~ OEJ

[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

Ah, contradictions… I’d like you to visit “The Heretic Traps” posted by Brother Jeb Thurmond – they are just that.

That is certainly an enlightening discussion, Eziekiel. Thank you for pointing me to it. It will save us all a great deal of time in this thread.

There are too many Christians out there who pick and choose amongst the verses of the Bible.

Trust me, they’re not just “out there.”

There is a “However.”

It wouldn’t be Landover without a however, now would it?

The Bible is the essential Word of God. Clearly the ~6,000 years of the earth since the creation cannot be recorded minute for minute in one book.

So, even had He chosen to do so, God could not have made a Bible that was both brief and complete. I learn something new every hour I spend in here.

There are gaps.

I understand—it’s just like the gaps in the fossil record.

We do not know what Elisha had for breakfast on his birthday.

True, but we can make an educated guess. If there was a plow ox and a book of matches nearby, he probably ate that (the ox, not the matches). Otherwise, I imagine he conjured up some bread or some poisoned gourd porridge.

Christ is never mentioned going to the rest room

That is because Christ never pissed against a wall. If he had pissed against a wall, I am confident we would have heard about it. Which, I guess, is your main point.

So to the heretic traps. Is there any contradiction? Well, the first answer is clearly that there is none.

Ah, but there are contradictions in the Bible that are not Heretic Traps. For example:

2 Samuel 24:24
And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.

1 Chronicles 20:21-26
Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the LORD: thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people. And Ornan said unto David, Take it to thee, and let my lord the king do that which is good in his eyes: lo, I give thee the oxen also for burnt offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for the meat offering; I give it all. And king David said to Ornan, Nay; but I will verily buy it for the full price: for I will not take that which is thine for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings without cost. So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.

Now, Jeb Thurmond was well aware of these two passages, and he confirmed that they referred to the same threshingfloor, since he discussed the seeming discrepancy in the amount that King David paid as Heretic Trap #106. But nowhere on the list does he note that David bought the same threshingfloor at the same time from both Araunah and Ornan.

There are many more examples, all of which I hope to cover in some detail in this thread.

The question in your mind – because you are a heretic and not that bright – is “How can both be true?”

Indeed, that was the very question burning within me.

God does not want those who pick and choose what they will read in His Holy Book

Except for the parts that Satan surreptitiously introduced into Proverbs, of course.

But the heretic who merely sips at the fount of knowledge and truth will be caught out – if he knows any answer (unlikely), he will certainly not know more than one.

That’s not really a fair criticism of Bobby-Joe. I was pretty devious with that whole Deepak Chopra business.

Clearly, in this case, Rastus did steal the pie, but that’s by the by

Are you sure that Buckwheat didn’t steal the pie and then try to pin it all on Rastus? In fact, they were probably in cahoots all along. You know how their kind are.

The heretic, the lollygagger, and the smartass will fail the test.

I’m more of a theretic than a heretic, and certainly no lollygagger, but you have me dead to rights on the smartass thing.

there are 2 answers but only one meaning

Hmmm... multiple answers, but only one meaning. You, sir, are a Unitarian!

When a True Christian™, by use of a heretic trap, finds an unsaved person, he will find it his pleasure and duty to instruct the fallen fellow in the hopes of saving his soul. Much as we are doing here for you.

Excellent. Perhaps Joshua can explain Heretic Trap #37 to me. After all, who knows more about praying while in the closet than Joshua?

Discard us and you discard your right to eternal life.

I discard nobody. It is against my religion. But God knows, I have been sorely tempted of late.

Overall, Ezekiel, I must say that you have delivered a powerful message, with a minimum of irreverent digression (except for the parable of Rastus and the pie), and I thank you for that. I will ponder what you have said and use it in my own quest for spiritual enlightenment. In fact, I think I shall deliver a sermon on your take on the Bible on Sunday. Actually, I’ll have to do that, because with all of the time I’ve spent in this thread, I’ve had no time to write a sermon, so this is all I’ve got.

what is your name at that forum? take to become whatever it is you become.

By a strange coincidence, it's the same as your nick on GayProtestantUK.com.

from Satanism to Buddhism to SkyCloudism

SkyCloudism--that's the belief that God paces a lot in Heaven, right? I sometimes lose track.

This is where I would part ways with Unitarian Unicyclism: when superstition is honored, ignorance must lead and folly follows close behind.

Where spirituality and community are dishonored, unhappiness and solitude follow close behind. Nobody has to honor or dishonor any belief in UU. What binds us together is that we honor each other.

[Wide-Open]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

By a strange coincidence, it's the same as your nick on GayProtestantUK.com.

It's co.uk.

Friend, frankly, you seem a bit obsessed with Brother Joshua's sexual orientation.

Can't you just blabber on about "believing everything" without personal attacks? Hmm... that might be a rethorical question.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

UnThinKing,
Boy, are you arguing from a stance of ignorance! Now I’ve told you that there are no contradictions in the Bible – How could there be?

I told you that Brother Jeb’s thread was for True Christians™ only – the rest of the world, bereft of the teachings of LBC, naturally would fall into error – like you.

2 Samuel 24:24
Says, “So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.”
1 Chronicles 20:21-26
Says, “Grant me the place of this threshingfloor,…So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.”

So in 2 Samuel 24:24, David gets the threshingfloor and oxen, but in 1 Chronicles 20:21-26, David gets “THE PLACE of this threshingfloor” (my emphasis, but, on this occasion, God would probably agree.)

So basically, David buys the threshingfloor and oxen for 50 Shekels and next he buys the barn in which the threshing floor is situated for 600 Shekels worth of gold.

Now surely that must be clear enough. Where’s the contradiction?

I hear you asking, “Yes, but from whom did David buy said property?”

Listen up! I know you do a lot of gabbling and little listening – take a day off will you?

Now I have 2 names “Eziekiel” and “Bathfire”. You have two also, “Unsaved” and “Trash.”

So, is it completely beyond you that Araunah, is Araunah Ornan? Many people of whom we learn in the Bible are referred to by more than one name or title. Or perhaps you think that “King” and “David” are 2 different people?

Does it concern you that not only is your eternal soul in peril, but you are “preaching” to ignorant folk at the Unification Church and they too will be misled on the great journey to True Salvation™?

Amen

Bathfire E

[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

It's co.uk.

I'll defer to your wider experience on this subject.

Friend, frankly, you seem a bit obsessed with Brother Joshua's sexual orientation. Can't you just blabber on about "believing everything" without personal attacks? Hmm... that might be a rethorical question.

Sadly, no. I'm not a laid-back, anything goes kind of Unitarian minister. I bear the stripes of an in your face, no piffling around, ask for any help you need but take responsibility for your actions kind of Unitarian minister.

I'll try to catch you up on this. There is a certain lower class of mammal endemic in Landover forums that thinks that the way to deal with any critic is to start talking about sodomites, nigras, and joos right from the get-go. I suspect they developed this habit because it's the only language that the Pokemon is a tool of the Devil forum visitors understand. Unfortunately nonuse led to the rapid atrophy of their ability to spin an intelligent argument, assuming they had that ability in the first place, which they probably didn't.

I resolved early on to simply throw that trash right back in the face of anyone who, like the Sammie Davis, Jr. loving, black, gay Jew Joshua, chose to take the low road. He may have gotten to Scottland afore me, but he will not back me down with his tripe (haggis?). The more impertinent and the more importunate his insults become, the darker, gayer, and more haemish he will get.

There are, of course, more moderate True Christians. JennyD fascinates me, since she (a) obviously can write intelligently (even elegantly) and (b) has for the most part avoided the facile insult, but (c) is savvy enough not to try her wits against my brilliance and superior Biblical knowledge in real intellectual discourse. Pastor Billy-Reubin and Ezekiel Doubtfire are savvy enough to test their superior intellect and knowledge of the Bible against my own comparatively meagre offerings, so they are the ones who are scoring the real points for True Christianity.

I won't call you gay (except for the not-so-subtle and well deserved rebuke above), because you are obviously too classy to stoop that low, and too intelligent to feel that you have to, except maybe in the oh-so-witty joo plot thread. Speaking of which, what the hell is hoogbegaaftheid? I googled it, but google translation doesn't handle Yiddish.

Anyway, the world could use more unconventional sexuality. It would soak up a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted debating the foundations of religious thought using arguments that not a single one of the debaters really believes.

[Wide-Open]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

Well friend, I'm staying out of the debate because I for one often read my KJV, and go "durrr". I always need help from the Pastors to explain to me what I'm actually reading.

Which leads me to your question: hoogbegaafdheid (with a "d" not a "t") is a mental illness I suffer from. For some weird reason, it only exists in Europe, and is not recognised as such in the USA.

It basically means a constant state of depression, delusion, anger explosions and a runny ear.

All my neighbours are happy people, they enjoy life, they are outgoing, smile a lot. Apparently, not doing all those things leads to hoogbegaafdheid.

BUT THEY ARE A BUNCH OF HEATHENS THAT ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL!!! AND I'M NOT!!!!

See what happened there? I can't help myself. I could edit it out, but that would be cheating.

My therapist diagnosed it some time ago, and there seems to be no real cure. Just pills, and solitary confinement now and then when it gets really bad.

There is no translation. The Pastors have tried to find one, but the only thing they could come up with was "pathetic over-achiever" or something like that. I'm sure they mean well, and you can't blame them. They think I'm making things up. I might well be in fact. It's one of the symptoms.

So there you have it. More proof that knowledge can not be gained from Googling or Wikiing. I hope to have explained it well to you.

[StarrKingGrad]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

So, is it completely beyond you that Araunah, is Araunah Ornan?

Ah, yes, Araunah Ornan, the famed Palestinian kabuki dancer. You're right, she'd hardly have need of a threshing floor in her line of work, or a place in which to keep it for that matter.

perhaps you think that “King” and “David” are 2 different people?

They sure look different. Whether one person or three, they're all welcome in the Unitarian Universalist church.

Does it concern you that not only is your eternal soul in peril, but you are “preaching” to ignorant folk at the Unification Church and they too will be misled on the great journey to True Salvation™?

We believe that it's not the destination that counts, just the journey.

So there you have it. More proof that knowledge can not be gained from Googling or Wikiing. I hope to have explained it well to you.

As well as is humanly possible, Wide, thank you. And yeah, you can't trust what you read on Wikipedia. For the truth, you really need to go to answers.com.

I inadvertently left out One Eyed Jack in my litany of characters. Well, he's more of a literary figure than a character, I suppose. While OEJ spans the gap from insulting to impressive, he is, in the end, One Eyed Jack, no more and no less.

I still can't believe he actually went to the beliefnet boards instead of the yahoo groups where the adults gather to discuss UU. I must be a much better troll than I had thought.

[SalvationSeeker]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

1 Chronicles 10 does not say that God slew Saul because Saul was not satisfied that God did not answer. 1 Chronicles 10 was very explicit on this point, Saul did not enquire of God. The context you added does not in any way change that plain and simple truth.

You see, the good people at Landover Baptist Church have convinced me that every single word in the Bible is to be taken completely literally, so I can no longer interpret things however I please or for the sake of convenience like the Unitarians and the Catholics and the other athiests do. If the chronicler said Saul did not enquire of God, then Saul did not enquire of God, and none of your sophistic arguments will convince me otherwise. Case closed.

The ony problem here seems to be that you're a troll who pretends he can't understand plain english..

Also, if it would be true what you say - that you take every single word in the Bible literally, and actually care about their meaning:
Then why oh why did you have to cut half of the verse out?

1 Chronicles 10:13 says WHY Saul died.
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD,
Which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
It was because He enquired of a familiar spirit. And instead of WHO, do you think? (Ie who should he have enquired?)
1 Chronicles 10:14 then says he didn't enquire of the Lord - But here's the point: IT DOES NOT SAY THAT HE NEVER ENQUIRED OF THE LORD!
Read both verses and it's clear that he didn't do it on THAT OCCASION, thus enquiring of a a familiar spirit INSTEAD (of God), and so God killed him.
That's why the context makes all the difference, and why what you posted isn't a contradiction at all when taken into context.

What you're saying now is basically that if I don't drive my car today, and so say:
"I didn't drive." That would mean I've NEVER driven a car.


I suggest you stop trolling and actually try to behave like the mature person you most likely aren't.

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

SKG: "I still can't believe [OEJ] actually went to the beliefnet boards instead of the yahoo groups where the adults gather to discuss UU. I must be a much better troll than I had thought."

I just clicked the first link instead of the second one. *shrugs* And every one of my posts over there has a link back here. One good troll deserves several more.

But your words on UU's fellowship are just so SWEET!

A joyful, affirming fellowship of ignorance, superstition, and folly! Isn't that just so NICE and warm and cuddly and, well, SWEET. I just makes me want to run out and join the Unitarian Unicyclist Fellowship of Ignorant, Superstitious Fools! Yay! Yay for UUFISF!

----

There is a worm-like parasite, Ommatokoita elongata, which lives inside the eyeball of Greenland sharks. As it grows and feeds it gradually blinds the shark. Eventually the shark can no longer see the outside world. It can no longer see what is real.

Just so do religions parasitize the minds of humans. Just so do religions gradually render humans unable to perceive reality.

Your description of Unitarian Unicyclism makes me think that it is well along in the process of consolidating its doctrinal DNA and becoming an infectious mind-parasite. One of the hallmarks of these parasites is that objective truth about consensual reality is unimportant compared to the drive to successfully infect new believers -- to parasitize new hosts.

Since UUFISF warmly welcomes any superstitious nonsense regardless of its relationship to reality, it would seem that it exhibits a prime hallmark of this kind of parasite.

Of course, as a pastor you are well and truly infected. You cannot see the forest for the trees -- or, rather, for the worm-like parasite which is eating your mind.

----

Christ ALONE is the answer! O Lord, I beg You, in Your inestimable might, Your immutable power, and Your ineffable chubbiness, HEAL these here Unitarian Unicyclists! Sweet Baby Jesus, CAST OUT the wormy parasites of false belief from the mooshy, gooey minds of these here Unicyclists!

Let them see Your great Creation in all its true shape and color. Take from these googly UU eyeballs the FALSE LENSES of rosy psychedelia, the loony eyeglasses of kooky superstition and goofy magical thinking.

Repent! REPENT, O ye of UUFISF! Jesus is the Answer, the Universal Disinfectant for infections caused by FALSE BELIEFS! His is the Truth, the Light, the Way, and the Rubber Glove of Disinfection! Amen! O, Amen!

~~ OEJ

[JennyD]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

There are, of course, more moderate True Christians. JennyD fascinates me, since she (a) obviously can write intelligently (even elegantly) and (b) has for the most part avoided the facile insult, but (c) is savvy enough not to try her wits against my brilliance and superior Biblical knowledge in real intellectual discourse. Pastor Billy-Reubin and Ezekiel Doubtfire are savvy enough to test their superior intellect and knowledge of the Bible against my own comparatively meagre offerings, so they are the ones who are scoring the real points for True Christianity.

While I appreciate the compliment , I have stopped engaging in discussion with you because (a) the majority of your discourse consists of deceit (pretending verses of Scripture came from Hindus), childish insults, and "witty" sarcasm; (b) Pastor Billy-Reuben is doing quite well at tromping your supposed Biblical knowledge without my assistance; and (c) I am not convinced that you are anything but a troll, albeit one with the ability to construct coherent sentences. This DOES put you above most of the Mario Gay-Laxatives or the Honda NSX crowd.

If you had the Biblical knowledge you claim, surely you would know that the many practices engaged in by your UU fellows -- astrology, witchcraft, pagan idolatry, etc. -- are all forbidden by God and abominations in His eyes.

If you believed in God and Jesus, as you claim to do, then you would know that these abominations are, in God's view (the only view which matters), grounds for an eternity of damnation.

If you were a minister, as you claim to be, you would have as your goal ensuring the Salvation, not Damnation, of your congregation.

The fact that you are claiming to preach anything other than Christianity in spite of your supposed Biblical knowledge leads me to believe that you (a) have gained most of your Biblical knowledge through the Skeptic's Annotated Bible; (b) do not believe in God and Jesus, but are in fact an atheist or agnostic; and (c) are not a minister of any congregation.

I do hope that you come to Jesus some day!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

,..... but are in fact an atheist or agnostic; and © are not a minister of any congregation.

I do hope that you come to Jesus some day!

Amen sister Jenny, but what you have to realize is that to a UU fruit loop, being a "Christian" pastor and being a God hating atheist are not mutually exclusive. Anything goes with those perverts.

I know, shocking, isn't it?

[One-eyed Jack]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

It pains me to admit it, but I have renounced my membership in SuperstionNet forums. (I heard Jesus give a little sigh of relief when I did it.)

Their earthly ears are not tuned to receive the preachments of one such as old and brain-damaged Jack. But as well as being called a devil I was compared to those magnificent men of God Jimmy Swaggart and Jerry Falwell, and that certainly warmed the cockles of my mussels.

If I find a reason to return (say, if any of our Godly members are witnessing to the heathen over there and need support) then I shall have to go in using a different name and a different strategy. Not to mention different tactics. And a different plan. And a false moustache, I think, and hairy plastic bosoms that hang out my shirtfront.

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. Acts 13:26

PM me, anyone, if you want some support.

~~ OEJ

[JennyD]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

So honesty didn't work on them, Brother Jack?

[Brother Cletus]

Re: Hello From An Unrepentant Unitarian

There are, of course, more moderate True Christians. JennyD fascinates me, since she (a) obviously can write intelligently (even elegantly) and (b) has for the most part avoided the facile insult, but (c) is savvy enough not to try her wits against my brilliance and superior Biblical knowledge in real intellectual discourse.

Well, well. If you truly have "superior Biblical knowledge" than our True Christian Sister Jenny, perhaps you wouldn't mind expounding on the following verses (please omit your usual boring hippie commentaries and stick to the point):

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. - Mark 16:16

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. - Revelation 21:8

How exactly do these verses support "universalism"?