Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

[Mobocracy]

So I've read around the forum abit trolled abit, and so on. I noticed some intellectual people, some intellectual bigots of people, and complete incompetent people who actually try to be factual, but fail. I am a man of believing in a creator, but not knowing of who the creator is. However, you guys seem to think everyone is hellbound except white Americans. (From pretty much lurking on the forums, is my resource for this information.) Almost everything to at least half the people of this forum, is always sexual. Also, you guys so far from 8-10 posts, do no research on what you're talking about. (Satan's Entertainment, do true research, PLEASE.) Also, time to bring science, into religion. Homosexuality, something that you guys speak out upon. It's just a chemical set of hormones, that's makes your sexuality, and helps carve your personality. When you are forming, you are a female. When you get a tad bit older in the womb, your hormones neither continue to 'carve' (so to speak) you into a female, or make you become a male. This also is why males have nipples. If someone is intelligent reading this post, they definitely see my point. Anywho, one can form to a male slower than others, and have less masculine in them, while they are male. This can form homosexuality, and nothing is wrong with it whatsoever.

Also, going by the old testament is your choice, however I see many opinions in the old testament, and I won't follow such culture set rules. Interwoven clothing a sin? Homosexuality a sin? Many other things that was just a cultural thing at this time period of it being written. Aswell, Jesus said to love the Gentilies (might of spelled it wrong) and the Jews. Jewish people were very common, and Gentilies was everyone else at this time. So, he practically said respect, and care for everyone. Just, not hating someone because you thought somewhere in the bible it said your skintone will send you to hell. Overtime, your skin pigment changes based on climate, and vitamin D intake.

Care to challenge this?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

There's little need to challenge any of this. You've come here to start arguments and disturb our harmony with the Lord.

Not one jot of saying what your favourite Bible verse is, even. Loads of crazy bunny hugging generalisations that blaspheme our Lord.

Where did you generate such hate?

[Brother Enoch]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

I don't think I've ever been called 'baist' before.

Why are you unbelievers so intolerant? You espouse tolerance, but only for those who espouse the same thing. That makes you what you don't espouse tolerance for.

Think about it.

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Fine. I made a paper that I actually showed people in church one day. Herpderp..



I'll copy and paste it.


I'm convinced the Bible has a powerful message for gay and lesbian Christians -- as well as straight Christians. But it's not the message of condemnation we so often hear.

I'm not expecting you to take my word for it, though. I ask only that you'd consider what my research has taught me about the passages used by some people to condemn God's gay and lesbian children. Then decide for yourself...

MY FIRST PREMISE:
Most people have not carefully and prayerfully researched the biblical texts often used to condemn God's lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender children.

As you may know, biblical ignorance is an epidemic in the United States. A recent study quoted by Dr. Peter Gomes in The Good Book found that 38 percent of Americans polled were certain the Old Testament was written a few years after Jesus' death. Ten percent believed Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. Many even thought the epistles were the wives of the apostles.

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God's Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn't say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don't know that:

Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
Only six or seven of the Bible's one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way -- and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it's understood today.
Most people who are certain they know what the Bible says about homosexuality don't know where the verses that reference same-sex behavior can be found. They haven't read them, let alone studied them carefully. They don't know the original meaning of the words in Hebrew or Greek. And they haven't tried to understand the historical context in which those words were written. Yet the assumption that the Bible condemns homosexuality is passed down from generation to generation with very little personal study or research. The consequences of this misinformation are disastrous, not only for God's gay and lesbian children, but for the entire church.

The apostle Paul says, "Test all things and hold fast to that which is good." By reading this little pamphlet, you are taking Paul seriously.

MY SECOND PREMISE:
Historically, people's misinterpretation of the Bible has left a trail of suffering, bloodshed, and death.

Over the centuries people who misunderstood or misinterpreted the Bible have done terrible things. The Bible has been misused to defend bloody crusades and tragic inquisitions; to support slavery, apartheid, and segregation; to persecute Jews and other non-Christian people of faith; to support Hitler's Third Reich and the Holocaust; to oppose medical science; to condemn interracial marriage; to execute women as witches; and to support the Ku Klux Klan. Shakespeare said it this way: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."

We'd like to believe that no person of good will would misuse the Bible to support his or her prejudice. But time and time again it has happened with tragic results.

In the 16th century, John Selden pointed at two Latin words carved into a marble wall in an ancient church in Rome: "Scrutamini Scripturas," which means search the Scriptures. "These two words," Seldon said, "have undone the world."

In one way, John Selden was right. Misusing the Bible has drenched the planet in blood and tears.

But in another way, he was wrong. Most people who misuse the Bible DON'T search the Scriptures. They simply find a text that seems to support their prejudice and then spend the rest of their lives quoting (or misquoting) that text.

The way certain Bible verses are used to condemn homosexuality and homosexuals is a perfect example of this.

On September 22, 2000, a 55-year-old man named Ronald E. Gay, angry for being teased about his last name, entered the Back Street Café in Roanoke, Virginia, a gathering place for lesbians and gays just a few miles from Lynchburg. Confident that God's Word supported his tragic plan of action, Mr. Gay shouted, "I am a Christian soldier, working for my Lord." Claiming that "Jesus does not want these people in his heaven," he shot seven innocent gay and lesbian people. One man, Danny Overstreet, died instantly. Others still suffer from their physical and psychological wounds.

After Matthew Shepard was killed in 1998, a pastor in North Carolina published an open letter regarding the trial of Aaron McKinney that read: "Gays are under the death penalty. His blood is guilty before God (Lev. 20:13). If a person kills a gay, the gay's blood is upon the gay and not upon the hands of the person doing the killing. The acts of gays are so abominable to God. His Word is there and we can't change it."

Most of the people I know who say "the Bible condemns homosexuality" would never condone these acts. Most Christians have no idea that the people killing gay and lesbian persons go around quoting those few verses of Scripture as justification.

But it's important to hear these stories, because I'm not writing this little pamphlet as a scholarly exercise. It's a matter of life and death. I'm pleading for the lives of my lesbian sisters and gay brothers who are rejected by their friends and families, fired by their employers, denied their civil rights, refused full membership in their churches, and kill themselves or are killed by others -- all on the basis of these six or seven verses.

We must be open to new truth from Scripture.

Even heroes of the Christian faith have changed their minds about the meaning of various biblical texts.

It took a blinding light and a voice from heaven to help the apostle Paul change his mind about certain Hebrew texts. A sheet lowered from the sky filled with all kinds of animals helped the apostle Peter gain new insights into Jewish law.

Jerry Falwell believed the Bible supported segregation in the church until a black shoeshine man asked him, "When will someone like me be allowed to become a member of your congregation?" Through those simple words, the Holy Spirit spoke new truth about the ancient biblical texts to the Rev. Falwell, and in obedience he ended segregation at Thomas Road Baptist Church.

Even when we believe the Scriptures are "infallible" or "without error," it's terribly dangerous to think that our understanding of every biblical text is also without error. We are human. We are fallible. And we can misunderstand and misinterpret these ancient words -- with tragic results.

Almost 1,000 people believed Jim Jones was a faithful interpreter of God's Word. They died with him in the jungles of Guyana. I studied Jones and leaders of other cults while writing the book and documentary film, Deceived. I found that the only people who were able to break free of the dangerous influence of such Bible-quoting cultic gurus were the ones who took the Bible seriously enough to study the texts themselves and make their own decisions about their meaning. The others "leave their bones in the desert."

What if someone asked you, "Is there a chance you could be wrong about the way you've interpreted the biblical texts sometimes used to condemn homosexual orientation?" How would you respond? What does it say about you if you answer, "No, I could NOT be wrong"? I am asking you to re-examine these texts -- carefully and prayerfully. Lives hang in the balance.

There are far too many tragic stories of what happens when we fail to study these texts. Mark B. was a young man who accepted his sexual orientation "until he became a Christian" and was told on the basis of these texts that he couldn't be both a Christian and a gay man. Mark committed suicide and wrote this suicide note to God: "I just don't know how else to fix this." Mary Lou Wallner, one of our most faithful Soulforce volunteers, was led by these texts to condemn her lesbian daughter, Anna, who hanged herself. Mary Lou now says, "If I can steer just one person away from the pain and anguish I've been living, then maybe Anna's death will have meaning."

If heroes of the Christian faith could change their minds about the meaning of certain biblical texts, shouldn't we be prepared to reconsider our own interpretations of these ancient words when the Holy Spirit opens our minds and hearts to new truth? That's why we study the Bible prayerfully, seeking the Spirit of Truth, God's loving Spirit, to help us understand and apply these words to our lives.

On the night he was betrayed, Jesus told his disciples he was going away from them for a while, but that the Father would send them a "Comforter," an "Advocate," the "Holy Spirit" who would "teach them all things."

I believe with all my heart that the Holy Spirit is still teaching us. When we reconsider the texts that are used by some people to condemn God's gay children, we must fervently seek the Holy Spirit's guidance, or we risk being misled by our own prejudices.

MY FOURTH PREMISE:
The Bible is a book about God -- not a book about human sexuality.

The Bible is the story of God's love for the world and the people of the world. It tells the history of God's love at work rescuing, renewing, and empowering humankind. It was never intended to be a book about human sexuality. Certainly, you will agree.

In fact, the Bible accepts sexual practices that we condemn and condemns sexual practices that we accept. Lots of them! Here are a few examples.

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
I'm certain you don't agree with these teachings from the Bible about sex. And you shouldn't. The list goes on: The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king's having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one's parents nude.

Over the centuries the Holy Spirit has taught us that certain Bible verses should not be understood as God's law for all time periods. Some verses are specific to the culture and time they were written, and are no longer viewed as appropriate, wise, or just.

Often, the Holy Spirit uses science to teach us why those ancient words no longer apply to our modern times. During the last three decades, for example, organizations representing 1.5 million U.S. health professionals (doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, and educators) have stated definitively that homosexual orientation is as natural as heterosexual orientation, that sexual orientation is determined by a combination of yet unknown pre- and post-natal influences, and that it is dangerous and inappropriate to tell a homosexual that he or she could or should attempt to change his or her sexual orientation.

While there are some people now living in heterosexual marriages who once perceived themselves to be gay, there are millions of gay and lesbian persons who have accepted their sexual orientation as a gift from God and live productive and deeply spiritual lives. The evidence from science and from the personal experience of gay and lesbian Christians demands that we at least consider whether the passages cited to condemn homosexual behavior should be reconsidered, just as other Bible verses that speak of certain sexual practices are no longer understood as God's law for us in this day.

MY FIFTH PREMISE:
We miss what these passages say about God when we spend so much time debating what they say about sex.

If the Bible is the story of God's love for the world and not a handbook about sex, then that should shape how we read the Scriptures. So as we take a look at the six biblical texts that are used by some people to condemn homosexuality, let's ask two questions about each of them:

First, what does the text say about God that we need to hear but might be missing?

Second, what might the text be saying about homosexuality?

PASSAGE 1
GENESIS 2:21-25
THE CREATION STORY

Let's start "In the Beginning..." What does the creation story in Genesis 1-2 say about God?

I'm so tired of reading signs carried by protesters that say: "It's about Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." In fact, the creation story is as important to Adam and Steve as it is Adam and Eve. Gays and non-gays alike need to know and celebrate the truth at the center of this story.

This creation story is primarily about God, a story written to show the power of God who created the world and everything in it. It teaches us that ultimately God is our Creator, that God shaped us, and that God said, "It's good." Isn't this the heart of the text?

PASSAGE 2
GENESIS 19:1-14
THE STORY OF SODOM

Now let's consider the second biblical text used by some people to condemn God's gay children. You remember the ancient story of Sodom. First, what does the story of Sodom in Genesis 19 say about God?

When Gary and I arrive at a college or university to speak, there are often protesters carrying signs that read, "Mel White, Sodomite." (Has a nice ring to it.) Actually, I'm not from Sodom. That city was buried beneath the Dead Sea centuries ago. I'm from California -- but perhaps that just confirms their suspicions!

Once again, this story is not primarily about sex. It is primarily about God. Some people say the city of Sodom was destroyed because it was overrun by sexually obsessed homosexuals. In fact, the city of Sodom had been doomed to destruction long before. So what is this passage really about?

Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom -- and not one of them mentions homosexuality. Even Billy Graham doesn't mention homosexuality when he preaches on Sodom.

Listen to what Ezekiel 16:48-49 tell us: "This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes."

______________________________

There is actually 10x more then this, but this pretty much covers the point over that.

How about you show me, where it clearly says that only white Christians are going to heaven? Please tell me where it leaves everyone else out.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

tl;dr

Have you no original thoughts?

You seriously expect us to believe a man who cannot even spell "biased" wrote that erudite drivel?

What sin did you commit that caused God to smite you between the ears?

Or perhaps you come from a line of heathens.

Or perhaps you really are Mel White...

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Double post---

I also don't care about someone's religion when I talk to them. However, it it makes them give hatred towards others, just by basis of belief, or a stereotype, it's just something I can't stand. Just because I don't exactly believe what you believe, doesn't mean I hat e you for that reason. Also, this forum happens to have alot of biast comments from your top users. If typed it wrong, it's biast. (bi-ist.) Same thing as prejudice, but has to do with something that cannot be changed or determined about a race, culture, or person.

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Where I live, it's 6 AM, and I've been studying Java, and calculus. So, sorry for my horrific grammar, but not everyone has the best grammar. Do you not believe a man, just by a mere typo in his sentence. If a man trips his words in a speech, will you just ignore his statements? One thing that everyone can learn from the Bible, is that no one is perfect.

Also, when i said double post, apparently someone decided to comment before and make it look idiotic for the time being. Just some forums don't allow double post .

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

I'm not mocking your inability to spell "biased"; I'm mocking your transparent plagiarism.

[Mary-Yves Lapierre]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

If typed it wrong, it's biast. (bi-ist.) Same thing as prejudice, but has to do with something that cannot be changed or determined about a race, culture, or person.

Are you meaning 'biased'? It is hard to be taking someone seriously when they are lacking the literacy in English.

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Okay, ye, I just stole that.
Why?
DUH because I would of been banned from the forums before I could do the proper research. I've seen that you banned people for thinking for themselves, which be have the ability to do.

Still, I read most of it, and it made a valid point to me.

Sorry that I thought your statements were toward my grammar, it just seemed in that direction. Ye, it's obvious that's stolen. I'm presuming I'm banned in 1-2 days anyways, which would be my research time.

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

4a 61 76 61 20 61 6e 64 20 48 65 78 (Java and Hex [put into hex]) are my second and third language. I'm trying to master a programming language and hex. I'm in French IV. So, I don't focus primarily on English. At least my grammar isn't horrid. Also, how can't you take someone literary if their grammar isn't A-perfect.

[Mary-Yves Lapierre]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Okay, ye, I just stole that.
Why?
DUH because I would of been banned from the forums before I could do the proper research. I've seen that you banned people for thinking for themselves, which be have the ability to do.

Still, I read most of it, and it made a valid point to me.

Sorry that I thought your statements were toward my grammar, it just seemed in that direction. Ye, it's obvious that's stolen. I'm presuming I'm banned in 1-2 days anyways, which would be my research time.

You are a very strange little boy. Is your mommy proud of you?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

You see if you had thought to gather your thoughts before going off on one you'd not have made such a silly billy of yourself.

Lurk more.

Proverbs 3:34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Why not take some time to grasp the mighty wonder of God's word as a means to fully understanding the nature of God Himself? Why not form your own thoughts about God from reading the Holy Bible? Why not then see if, after reading the Bible from cover to cover rather than regurgitating the thoughts of others, you come to the conclusion that His word should be spread far and wide without editing it for all the fluffy and nice bits?

For God is a violent and jealous God and not warning people of that is doing them a great wrong if they think they are going to Heaven while fornicating and lying with men as women.

Now know this, my message to you is one of love so that you are not misled by false Christians into Hell. We alone are unafraid of God's word to the letter!

[Mobocracy]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Strange, because I think for myself, and rush into things. Everyone has a different personality, and everyone is indeed strange.

I was actually forced unto Christianity, and forced into a Christian school. Which made me actually hate anything that had to do with religion for awhile. Then I studied all religions. I had to memorize verses, and read the Bible. I learned a bit, remembered a bit, but not word for word.

Still, from what I've seen. I would still love to see where it actually discourages and condemns homosexuality to hell in the Bible. I would also love to see where it encourages prejudice towards other people, due to race, culture, or religion.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Read, with open mind, not baist thoughts.

Strange, because I think for myself, and rush into things. Everyone has a different personality, and everyone is indeed strange.

I was actually forced unto Christianity, and forced into a Christian school. Which made me actually hate anything that had to do with religion for awhile. Then I studied all religions. I had to memorize verses, and read the Bible. I learned a bit, remembered a bit, but not word for word.

Still, from what I've seen. I would still love to see where it actually discourages and condemns homosexuality to hell in the Bible. I would also love to see where it encourages prejudice towards other people, due to race, culture, or religion.

Why not read the Bible and this forum with an open mind, not biased thoughts? You may even discover the Truth®

Just to help you out:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/

Start there and keep going. It's a real eye-opener that will change your life!