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  • TwylaFox
    Unsaved trash, loudmouthed feminazi
    • Dec 2013
    • 9

    #1

    Greetings and salutations

    First off, I must openly admit to finding myself a bit confused.

    Having grown up in the Buchanan Street United Methodist Church in Amarillo, Texas, dragged through various Assembly of God churches (courtesy of my USAF father), and eventually to the Friends Quaker Church in Las Animas, Colorado, it has been perplexing how many ways the exact same verses from the Bible can be interpreted - with each interpretation professed as being authoritative.

    Being a writer myself, as well as a student of older literature (often in other languages), I find myself questioning just how authoritative any incarnation of the Bible is capable of being. In no way do I question the origins of the Bible (more on that below), but I do question the fluidity and plasticity of language itself.

    Even something as simple as saying "time flies like an arrow"... Most who natively speak English understand this to mean time passes swiftly, as it was intended. Those unfamiliar with English could well interpret "time" as the verb and "flies" as the noun (the plural of fly) and wonder why insects are being compared to archaic missiles.

    In addition is the plasticity of a language itself. When someone refers to "The Gay 90s", they're not referring to rampant homosexuality but to the lackadaisical and carefree existence of the 1890s. Even today, it is not uncommon to hear someone use the phrase "back in my day" and clearly understand that the person is not referring to a specific passage of 24 hours but, rather, to a general period of time of indeterminate length with a significant beginning and ending.

    The above is further complicated by the fact that most languages have unique - and often untranslatable - traits, such as all nouns in German having a gender or the Inuit language having over 400 words for "snow". Translating between modern languages is frequently problematic and often replete with incomplete (or outright wrong) translations - this is even moreso when translating from ancient languages.

    Also, lest we forget, the nefarious "Unholy Bible" - in which the word "not" was accidentally omitted from Exodus 20:14, the Seventh Commandment. How many mistakes such as this have slipped through the cracks over thousands of years? How many have never been noticed and/or corrected?!? What about the Apocrypha? Who among humankind truly has the authority to deem what parts of the Bible are "worthy of consumption"?


    As I mentioned above, I have no doubts as to the authenticity of the Bible's origins. Dealing regularly with language, I readily understand how many ways words can be understood (or misunderstood) - particularly when it comes to the 'days' of creation.

    Back when the Book of Genesis was first being written down, people of that era couldn't understand the astronomical concepts we understand today. Heck, people in the Middle Ages didn't even understand the concept of the viruses responsible for the Black Death. The formation of the cosmos had to be expressed in terminology they could understand.

    Ironically, it has been the seemingly-endless debate between Creationists and Evolutionists which first convinced me of the authenticity of the Bible's origins. Everything that science has been able to determine about how our world came to be as it is matches so closely with the Biblical account that it has only served to prove what it sought to disprove.


    I don't mean any of this to come across as confrontational. There may well be (and probably are) exceedingly rational explanations which can remedy my confusion - just that I've never encountered them. I certainly hope so. I can understand that God operates on a plane beyond our comprehensions, but I really don't think He ever intended deliberate confusion.
    Prov 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
  • Mary Etheldreda
    Gushing for Jesus
     
    • Sep 2011
    • 23765

    #2
    Re: Greetings and salutations

    That's nice. Tell us what church you go to and what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus.

    Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.

    Comment

    • TwylaFox
      Unsaved trash, loudmouthed feminazi
      • Dec 2013
      • 9

      #3
      Re: Greetings and salutations

      I don't presently attend church.

      As for the rest:
      A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35
      Prov 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

      Comment

      • Didymus Much
        Unsaved trash, Arrogant Atheist Dick
        • Jun 2010
        • 14076

        #4
        Re: Greetings and salutations

        Originally posted by TwylaFox View Post
        ...John 13:34-35
        Ok, so in that passage, who was Jesus speaking to?

        Comment

        • Basilissa
          South of the Border outreach program
          True Christian™
           
          • Mar 2013
          • 12911

          #5
          Re: Greetings and salutations

          Originally posted by TwylaFox View Post
          Having grown up in the Buchanan Street United Methodist Church in Amarillo, Texas, dragged through various Assembly of God churches (courtesy of my USAF father), and eventually to the Friends Quaker Church in Las Animas, Colorado, it has been perplexing how many ways the exact same verses from the Bible can be interpreted - with each interpretation professed as being authoritative.
          That's part of the problem. God does not want us to "interpret" the Bible, just read it as is:

          2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

          Even something as simple as saying "time flies like an arrow"... Most who natively speak English understand this to mean time passes swiftly, as it was intended. Those unfamiliar with English could well interpret "time" as the verb and "flies" as the noun (the plural of fly) and wonder why insects are being compared to archaic missiles.
          Um, I'm fluent in a few languages, and it makes sense in all of them (even in those which do not have the same idiomatic expression).

          The above is further complicated by the fact that most languages have unique - and often untranslatable - traits, such as all nouns in German having a gender
          And English nouns don't? So how come do captains refer to their ships as "she?"

          or the Inuit language having over 400 words for "snow".
          Urban myth, not real.

          Translating between modern languages is frequently problematic and often replete with incomplete (or outright wrong) translations
          As a multulingual person with simultaneous interpretation experience I disagree with this statement.

          Also, lest we forget, the nefarious "Unholy Bible" - in which the word "not" was accidentally omitted from Exodus 20:14, the Seventh Commandment. How many mistakes such as this have slipped through the cracks over thousands of years? How many have never been noticed and/or corrected?!?
          That's why we have different versions to compare. (Hint: they are not that different).

          Back when the Book of Genesis was first being written down, people of that era couldn't understand the astronomical concepts we understand today. Heck, people in the Middle Ages didn't even understand the concept of the viruses responsible for the Black Death. The formation of the cosmos had to be expressed in terminology they could understand.

          Ironically, it has been the seemingly-endless debate between Creationists and Evolutionists which first convinced me of the authenticity of the Bible's origins. Everything that science has been able to determine about how our world came to be as it is matches so closely with the Biblical account that it has only served to prove what it sought to disprove.
          You mean that in the scientific theory light has been created before sources of light (like sun, stars, moon)? That creation of plants precede the creation of sun, stars, and moon?

          I agree that this is how it happened, but I don't think scientists would agree.
          God created fossils to test our faith.

          * * *

          My favorite LBC sermons:
          True Christians are Perfect!
          True Christian™ Love.
          Salvation™ made Easy!
          You can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the Old Testament.
          Jesus is impolite. Deal with it.
          Jesus is xenophobic and so should we.
          Sanctity of Life is NOT a Biblical Concept.
          Biblical view on modern-day slavery.
          The Immorality of the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights."
          Geneva Conventions vs. The Holy Bible.
          God HATES Rational Thinking!
          True Christian™ Man as a spitting image of God.

          Comment

          • TwylaFox
            Unsaved trash, loudmouthed feminazi
            • Dec 2013
            • 9

            #6
            Re: Greetings and salutations

            Originally posted by Didymus Much View Post
            Ok, so in that passage, who was Jesus speaking to?
            He was speaking to his disciples (sans Judas Iscariot, who had left earlier), reminding them of the New Covenant He was bringing the world by sacrificing Himself to absolve the world's sins.
            Prov 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

            Comment

            • Mark L. Snyde, PhD
              True Christian™
              True Christian™
              • Nov 2013
              • 1284

              #7
              Re: Greetings and salutations

              Hello,

              I find it is best to read God's Word without thinking. Just let The Word of God wash over you in its clarity and moral authority. God has already done the thinking for us. Anything The Bible says is literally true.

              God would not give us anything unclear or something requiring interpretation, now would He?
              sigpic

              I Kings 7:23

              And he made a moulten Sea, ten cubites from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, & his height was fiue cubits: and a line of thirtie cubites did compasse it round about.

              New here? Desiring to be pleasing in the eyes of The Lord and His Followers?

              Then do as directed by our esteemed Pastors and head on over to the Introductions subforum and make your first post there, friend. Tell us what church you go to and what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus. Anything else you want to share with us about how Jesus has blessed you is welcomed too.

              Are you a hater of God that believes He is a morally bankrupt monster? Read Why, you ask, is God so angry? to see that it is in fact you that is the monster that mercilessly and infinitely torments God.

              Stop this relentless torturing of God and accept Jesus today!

              Comment

              • Wide-Open
                Director of European Evangelical Outreach
                A Shining Example of Christ's Love
                Quite possibly the only decent, heterosexual human being in the whole of Europe
                True Christian™
                • Nov 2007
                • 18449

                #8
                Re: Greetings and salutations

                Originally posted by Basilissa View Post
                Um, I'm fluent in a few languages, and it makes sense in all of them (even in those which do not have the same idiomatic expression).
                Indeed Sister. Last time I tried to time flies was when I was watching the Monaco Grand Prix under the influence of unnamed substances. To my defense, there was indeed a fly crawling over my TV.

                Of course, that was back in my unsaved days.
                Psalm 81:10:
                I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt:
                open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.

                Comment

                • Didymus Much
                  Unsaved trash, Arrogant Atheist Dick
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 14076

                  #9
                  Re: Greetings and salutations

                  Originally posted by TwylaFox View Post
                  He was speaking to his disciples (sans Judas Iscariot, who had left earlier), reminding them of the New Covenant He was bringing the world by sacrificing Himself to absolve the world's sins.
                  I've highlighted the pertinent bits in your response. So, you agree that He was talking to a closed group, and that extending His instructions (that the Bible clearly states was meant for a small group of hand-picked followers) to apply to humanity at large (as many commentators [priests, pastors, etc.] have tried to do) would be a basic error of logic?

                  Comment

                  • James Hutchins
                    True Christian™
                    Just a Regular Nice Guy
                     
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 29435

                    #10
                    Re: Greetings and salutations

                    Originally posted by Wide-Open View Post
                    Indeed Sister. Last time I tried to time flies was when I was watching the Monaco Grand Prix under the influence of unnamed substances. To my defense, there was indeed a fly crawling over my TV.

                    Of course, that was back in my unsaved days.
                    "...my unsaved days." My memory is as a clear as if it were just yesterday.


                    So Twyla, why do you not visit Gods House? Do you at least wire transfer tithes?
                    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
                    Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
                    Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
                    Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
                    Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
                    Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

                    Comment

                    • TwylaFox
                      Unsaved trash, loudmouthed feminazi
                      • Dec 2013
                      • 9

                      #11
                      Re: Greetings and salutations

                      Originally posted by Basilissa View Post
                      That's part of the problem. God does not want us to "interpret" the Bible, just read it as is:

                      2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
                      Which only contributes to the confusion. No prophecy is subject to interpretation, but prophecy is but a portion of the Bible.

                      Originally posted by Basilissa View Post
                      And English nouns don't? So how come do captains refer to their ships as "she?"
                      That's an entire etymology unto itself. Naval superstition says it's 'bad luck' to operate an unnamed ship, so Captains most frequently named their vessels in honor of their wives.

                      Seems ironic to refer to the USS Ronald Reagan as "she", but that's tradition for you.

                      Originally posted by Basilissa View Post
                      You mean that in the scientific theory light has been created before sources of light (like sun, stars, moon)? That creation of plants precede the creation of sun, stars, and moon?
                      As often as verses have been added to and removed from the Bible over the centuries, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a few of them got out of order.


                      Originally posted by Didymus Much View Post
                      So, you agree that He was talking to a closed group, and that extending His instructions (that the Bible clearly states was meant for a small group of hand-picked followers) to apply to humanity at large (as many commentators [priests, pastors, etc.] have tried to do) would be a basic error of logic?
                      Not when you consider the following:
                      And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Matthew 28:18-20
                      Seems pretty clear to me that Jesus intended for EVERYONE to learn and observe His Covenant.
                      Prov 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

                      Comment

                      • Nobar King
                        Municipal Code Archivist - Deuteronomy 28:58
                        Christ's Guardian
                        True Christian™
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 23748

                        #12
                        Re: Greetings and salutations

                        Originally posted by TwylaFox View Post

                        As often as verses have been added to and removed from the Bible over the centuries, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a few of them got out of order.
                        This is a claim that all atheists make but you would think that some bible scholar would have noticed if changes were made.
                        May you be a blessing to every life you touch.

                        Comment

                        • TwylaFox
                          Unsaved trash, loudmouthed feminazi
                          • Dec 2013
                          • 9

                          #13
                          Re: Greetings and salutations

                          Originally posted by James Hutchins View Post
                          So Twyla, why do you not visit Gods House? Do you at least wire transfer tithes?
                          I've tried quite a few churches, but most have been so vain and self-centered that it makes me nauseous. Like my great-grandfather, I've seen corruption and vice become far too common among those who profess to speak the Word of God. Though, also like my great-grandfather, I'm seldom more than arm's reach from a Bible - which says:
                          Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

                          Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

                          And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

                          But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Matthew 6:1-7
                          Even as tight as my finances are, I do try my best to do His will. Stopping to help those with car trouble, buying extra tacos on Taco Tuesday to hand out to beggars, assisting the elderly with their shopping, and so forth. Before my back gave out I'd spend my spare time assisting with community construction projects, mow lawns and shovel sidewalks for elderly/disabled neighbors, and so forth.

                          God is everywhere - not just in church - and the tithes we give unto even the least of His creations is given unto Him.
                          Prov 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

                          Comment

                          • Basilissa
                            South of the Border outreach program
                            True Christian™
                             
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 12911

                            #14
                            Re: Greetings and salutations

                            Originally posted by TwylaFox View Post
                            Which only contributes to the confusion. No prophecy is subject to interpretation, but prophecy is but a portion of the Bible. ...
                            As often as verses have been added to and removed from the Bible over the centuries, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a few of them got out of order.
                            Do you think that changes have happened only to these parts which are not prophesies?

                            Anyway, it is very convenient that you think that the Genesis is an accurate description of the scientific theory of the origin of the world, yet when confronted with the actual description of what Genesis says you say it has been changed through the ages.
                            God created fossils to test our faith.

                            * * *

                            My favorite LBC sermons:
                            True Christians are Perfect!
                            True Christian™ Love.
                            Salvation™ made Easy!
                            You can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the Old Testament.
                            Jesus is impolite. Deal with it.
                            Jesus is xenophobic and so should we.
                            Sanctity of Life is NOT a Biblical Concept.
                            Biblical view on modern-day slavery.
                            The Immorality of the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights."
                            Geneva Conventions vs. The Holy Bible.
                            God HATES Rational Thinking!
                            True Christian™ Man as a spitting image of God.

                            Comment

                            • Mark L. Snyde, PhD
                              True Christian™
                              True Christian™
                              • Nov 2013
                              • 1284

                              #15
                              Re: Greetings and salutations

                              Originally posted by Basilissa View Post
                              Do you think that changes have happened only to these parts which are not prophesies?

                              Anyway, it is very convenient that you think that the Genesis is an accurate description of the scientific theory of the origin of the world, yet when confronted with the actual description of what Genesis says you say it has been changed through the ages.
                              She's trying to think again while reading God's Word. I advise against this...it only causes confusion and straying from the path.
                              sigpic

                              I Kings 7:23

                              And he made a moulten Sea, ten cubites from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, & his height was fiue cubits: and a line of thirtie cubites did compasse it round about.

                              New here? Desiring to be pleasing in the eyes of The Lord and His Followers?

                              Then do as directed by our esteemed Pastors and head on over to the Introductions subforum and make your first post there, friend. Tell us what church you go to and what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus. Anything else you want to share with us about how Jesus has blessed you is welcomed too.

                              Are you a hater of God that believes He is a morally bankrupt monster? Read Why, you ask, is God so angry? to see that it is in fact you that is the monster that mercilessly and infinitely torments God.

                              Stop this relentless torturing of God and accept Jesus today!

                              Comment

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