[TwylaFox]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Anyway, it is very convenient that you think that the Genesis is an accurate description of the scientific theory of the origin of the world, yet when confronted with the actual description of what Genesis says you say it has been changed through the ages.

And therein lies the rub. God is perfect, the Word of God is perfect, but humankind is imperfect and the Bible has passed through many human hands and translations over the centuries.

How is one to discern the Word of God from the word of man without thinking?

[Nobar King]

Re: Greetings and salutations

And therein lies the rub. God is perfect, the Word of God is perfect, but humankind is imperfect and the Bible has passed through many human hands and translations over the centuries.

How is one to discern the Word of God from the word of man without thinking?

I see you ignored my comment and are sticking with your 'flawed bible' theory.

Please explain why the most popular book in all the world with literally BILLIONS of followers is the ONLY book in the history of literature that is 'imperfect and mistranslated'.

Do you say the same for translations of all books or are you just especially against Christianity?

[JustGotSaved]

Re: Greetings and salutations

I lived in the Salt Lake City a while ago, for a time. Totally beautiful location. The wasatch mountains on one side, Salt Lake and Antelope Island on the other, the clear air and high elevation. Up there, men are men, women are women, and snow means snow and there's no fooling around with any sissy limp-wristed "flurries"!

However, I am unauthorized to speak to the rest of your post because I just couldn't get through it. Maybe it was a shortcoming of my own, but i couldn't get through the long wordiness. No offense.

Welcome

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings and salutations

And therein lies the rub. God is perfect, the Word of God is perfect, but humankind is imperfect and the Bible has passed through many human hands and translations over the centuries.

How is one to discern the Word of God from the word of man without thinking?

OK, so we both agree that the Holy Bible is the the perfect word of the perfect God and that God intended it to be used as an instruction manual for the faithful, right?

Do you think that God has not foreseen that the Bible would be hand-copied for thousands of years before the advent of copying machines and translated into a myriad of languages?

Why do you think that God would allow us to follow a flawed (wrongly copied/translated) instruction manual?

There are three possibilities:

1) There is no God, and the Bible is just a book. We both agree this is not true.
2) God exists, but He doesn't care what we do. I think you'll agree that if this was true, there wouldn't be any Bible to begin with.
3) God guided hands of copyists and translators, so the Bible that we read is the unaltered, perfect Word of God.

You must see that the third option is the only viable, logical explanation.

[TwylaFox]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Please explain why the most popular book in all the world with literally BILLIONS of followers is the ONLY book in the history of literature that is 'imperfect and mistranslated'.

Do you say the same for translations of all books or are you just a bigot?

No need for namecalling, please.

ANY book subject to mortal hands is potentially imperfect, but the significance of those imperfections are relative to how important the book is - and NO book is as important as the Bible! The original texts of the Bible are lost to the sands of time and the oldest copies we have are several generations removed from the True Texts by both duplication and translation - and many of these are incomplete.

I have no doubt that (most) Biblical scholars have done their utmost to ensure the veracity and accuracy of their copies and translations, yet even they are/were imperfect humans working with imperfect human languages. The New Testament is two thousand years old and the Books of Moses are at least twice that - with Genesis being the oldest.

The primary motivation behind the King James Version was trying to contend with all the inaccuracies which had crept into the then-current versions of the Bible - including the Tyndale, Bishops', Coverdale, Geneva, and Great Bibles and the Latin Vulgate. All of these versions were labored over by devout men of God, yet the discrepancies still occurred.

Would it not, then, be wiser to observe the essence of God's Holy Word than the letter of mankind's translation of it?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Greetings and salutations

...Would it not, then, be wiser to observe the essence of God's Holy Word than the letter of mankind's translation of it?

So why don't you just tell us what "essence of God's Holy Word" is, and how you arrived at that conclusion?

[Naomi Ruth Lamb]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Twyla, Sweetie: Welcome to the place where Jesus goes when He wants to have good conversation, kick back, and have communion with His saints. Way back in 1611 they decided to get the Bible correctly translated. This was done by the power of GOD Himself. He guided the hands of the translators and said that this one was the real thing. Until Oprah started consorting with new age devils, even she swore by the KJV 1611. I completely understand your questions, but you must at some point in your life make a decision to either follow our LORD or to turn your back upon Him. This decision alone with allow the Holy Spirit to guide your thoughts and open you mind to His teachings and truth. Don't be fooled by the obstacles satan tries to present you. Don't allow your mind to think as one normally does. In spiritual matters, you must allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. Completely. When you do, you will think how silly it has been to constantly question everyone, for God's light and truth will descend upon you. Your only price? Having faith in Him. May God richly bless you!

[James Hutchins]

Re: Greetings and salutations

I've tried quite a few churches, but most have been so vain and self-centered that it makes me nauseous. Like my great-grandfather, I've seen corruption and vice become far too common among those who profess to speak the Word of God. Though, also like my great-grandfather, I'm seldom more than arm's reach from a Bible - which says:Even as tight as my finances are, I do try my best to do His will. Stopping to help those with car trouble, buying extra tacos on Taco Tuesday to hand out to beggars, assisting the elderly with their shopping, and so forth. Before my back gave out I'd spend my spare time assisting with community construction projects, mow lawns and shovel sidewalks for elderly/disabled neighbors, and so forth.

God is everywhere - not just in church - and the tithes we give unto even the least of His creations is given unto Him.

You are confused, obviously. Church is where you praise God. Not 'Gods', and most certainly not the huddled masses.

You need to stop being so selfish and give to God. He will repay your love a hundred fold. It is in the Bible.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings and salutations

No need for namecalling, please.
The primary motivation behind the King James Version was trying to contend with all the inaccuracies which had crept into the then-current versions of the Bible - including the Tyndale, Bishops', Coverdale, Geneva, and Great Bibles and the Latin Vulgate. All of these versions were labored over by devout men of God, yet the discrepancies still occurred.

Would it not, then, be wiser to observe the essence of God's Holy Word than the letter of mankind's translation of it?

You did not answer to my questions -

OK, so we both agree that the Holy Bible is the the perfect word of the perfect God and that God intended it to be used as an instruction manual for the faithful, right?

Do you think that God has not foreseen that the Bible would be hand-copied for thousands of years before the advent of copying machines and translated into a myriad of languages?

Why do you think that God would allow us to follow a flawed (wrongly copied/translated) instruction manual?

There are three possibilities:

1) There is no God, and the Bible is just a book. We both agree this is not true.
2) God exists, but He doesn't care what we do. I think you'll agree that if this was true, there wouldn't be any Bible to begin with.
3) God guided hands of copyists and translators, so the Bible that we read is the unaltered, perfect Word of God.

You must see that the third option is the only viable, logical explanation.

[WWJDnow]

Re: Greetings and salutations

...the Inuit language having over 400 words for "snow".

Urban myth, not real.

Yeah. I doubt those savages have 400 words total in their language. It's mostly grunts, screams, and moose calls.

Would it not, then, be wiser to observe the essence of God's Holy Word than the letter of mankind's translation of it?

Yes. That's why we use God's only Certified Correct Version of His Word®, the 1611 King James Version.

Be welcome and make yourself at home, Twyla. You have some very strange ideas, no doubt fostered by all of the false churches you have attended, but you seem to be interested in finding the path to Jesus--so you have come to the right place! You should know that you will not be able to convince us of anything because, as Paul said in 1 Timothy 2:12:

I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

However, we will be glad to instruct you in what the Bible actually says. Nice to have you on board!

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Lady, does your husband even know that you're here? Does he teach you daily Bible lessons, or do you just make it up in your pretty little head?

If you'd like to find out more about Landover Baptist Church, please read THIS thread created especially for new posters.

If you have a question, use the "search" function before posting it. Most likely it is being discussed somewhere on this Godly forum. Please don't waste God's precious bandwidth.

You will keep a respectful tongue in your head whenever addressing your betters, which includes all True Christians™. Failure to do so, or any attempt at inciting debate or mockery of God's Divine Plan, can and will result in the suspension of your posting privileges.

Your rights on this forum are listed HERE. If you feel that any of these rights have been violated, please don't hesitate to contact a Pastor at once.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Twyla, I don't think you have any formula for determining which parts of the Bible are corrupt. I think you've come up with this idea as an excuse to reject those bits you don't like. God's Word is an instruction manual for the Christian life. If any of its intended meaning has been lost in translation, then it is as useless as one of those instruction manuals that has been put through Chinese-to-English translation software.

[TwylaFox]

Re: Greetings and salutations

You are confused, obviously. Church is where you praise God. Not 'Gods', and most certainly not the huddled masses.

Interesting, because Jesus says otherwise:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:34-40

OK, so we both agree that the Holy Bible is the the perfect word of the perfect God and that God intended it to be used as an instruction manual for the faithful, right?

Do you think that God has not foreseen that the Bible would be hand-copied for thousands of years before the advent of copying machines and translated into a myriad of languages?

No one among humankind has the insight or authority to say what God did or did not foresee - you and I included.

Why do you think that God would allow us to follow a flawed (wrongly copied/translated) instruction manual?

The same reason as the Bible says He expects us to be able to discern the false prophets from among the true. The same way Jesus died upon the cross to cleanse the world of all its sins and establish His New Covenant in place of the Old. That our course to Heaven was no longer in the hands of the temples and priests but in His hands alone.

You should know that you will not be able to convince us of anything because, as Paul said in 1 Timothy 2:12:

I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Neither 1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, nor Titus were written by the Apostle Paul - unless he somehow managed to pen them 120-150 years after his death. (BTW - That's from Reverend Raymond F. Collins, a renowned and highly authoritative Biblical scholar and historian.)

Yes. That's why we use God's only Certified Correct Version of His Word®, the 1611 King James Version.

As in the version which was specifically edited to conform to the dictates of the Church of England? As in the one where King James had all the translators executed and their notes burned so no one could challenge its veracity? (Also from Reverend Raymond F. Collins.)

Lady, does your husband even know that you're here?

A tad difficult considering that I've been widowed since 2008.

Does he teach you daily Bible lessons, or do you just make it up in your pretty little head?

That was part and parcel to being an AoG Minister, as were both our fathers as well.

You will keep a respectful tongue in your head whenever addressing your betters, which includes all True Christians™.

I have been nothing but respectful throughout, even when your "True Christians™" resorted to namecalling. And as for the notion of "betters"...

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Colossians 3:11

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Acts 10:28

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2

So let's just check all this emotional baggage and put it behind us, shall we?

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Greetings and salutations

Interesting, because Jesus says otherwise:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:34-40

I think you're trying to suggest that charitable works count as a substitute for church. This is not true. God requires that His people attend church.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I also hope you realise that in the passage you quoted, Jesus is talking about good deeds done to "the least of these my brethren" -- that is to say, fellow Christians, not the unwashed masses.

The same reason as the Bible says He expects us to be able to discern the false prophets from among the true. The same way Jesus died upon the cross to cleanse the world of all its sins and establish His New Covenant in place of the Old. That our course to Heaven was no longer in the hands of the temples and priests but in His hands alone.

Do you think the Old Testament is completely irrelevant now? Because it's not.

Neither 1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, nor Titus were written by the Apostle Paul

Well, they claim to be (1 Tim 1:1; 2 Tim 1:1; Tit 1:1). There's a serious problem with the authority of Scripture if Paul did not write those epistles.

As in the version which was specifically edited to conform to the dictates of the Church of England? As in the one where King James had all the translators executed and their notes burned so no one could challenge its veracity? (Also from Reverend Raymond F. Collins.)

Source (link) and quote, please.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Greetings and salutations

...As in the one where King James had all the translators executed and their notes burned so no one could challenge its veracity?...

Your source for that preposterous claim? Oh, and just saying "Rev.Collins" won't cut it, as I searched a lot of his work and found nothing anywhere near that outlandish and controversial. In what published work did he claim that?

The notes being burned thing happened with the Koran, btw.