[alethias_veritas]

Earlier, I was reading through a thread enquiring about the meaning of the word 'fap.' I would like to post my response the conversation which followed. I have also emailed this response to the senior pastor, but posted it here as well because it is meant for everyone.



Dear Landover Baptist Church Congregation:

My name is Maggie B. I am currently a second semester sophomore attending Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. I plan to major in Classical Studies, and possibly minor in Art or Music. Tomorrow, I will celebrate my 20th birthday. This will mark 20 years of walking with Christ, 20 years of growing in a relationship with Him, and 20 years of an active prayer life. I regularly attend church, even while living at school, and I study His word as often as possible. I consider myself a Christian.

One thing about being a Christian which I take pride in is setting a good example to those non-Christians around me. Christians today have such a negative image; they are considered hypocritical and judgmental. Everyday, I work to dispel that image by setting a compassionate, loving example to everyone with whom I come into contact. Yes, this also means those who believe differently than I do. Though I do not agree with them, I respect their viewpoints, and share my own in a non-argumentative manner. I never judge them or put them down. Rather, I let them know that, though they may not believe in him, God still loves them and shows this through me.

While reading over recent news articles on another site, I found a link to your forum. Specifically, this link led me to a thread debating over the definition of the term 'fap.' What I read there shocked and horrified me. Members of the forum, who attested to being Christians themselves, were harshly putting down and judging others, some of whom were fellow Christians. Members repeatedly called others 'demon' and 'sinner' and were told they were 'going to hell.' These people were treating the newcomers with the same judgmental attitude the newcomers were accused of using (which they weren't!). These newcomers were merely answering the question originally asked. Instead of being thanked for their helpfulness, they were hit with accusations of being obsessed with sex and masturbation.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, did Christ himself not treat non-Christians with love and kindness? He showed compassion to everyone, even the sinners. Yes, he did point out their sin and helped them find salvation, but he did so without calling them 'demon' or tell them they were 'going to hell.' Should we not strive to be Christ-like? Is that not the whole point of being a Christian? We are called to be an example to all, and to bring as many to Him as possible. We cannot do this through attacking others. We must show the 'sinners' of the world the same love which Christ shows us.

It is with this love that I must say that the behavior I saw in that discussion made me ashamed to be a Christian. I was ashamed that, when I say I am a Christian, I would be lumped in with that kind of un-Christ-like behavior. God calls us to show compassion, not to judge. That is left to Him alone.

John 8:7 says: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Fellow Christians, let us remember what God has called us to do. I am keeping you all in my prayers.


Yours in Christ,
Maggie B.

[Mistress Cookie]

Dear Maggie:

I am sorry the thread upset you. As a Christian, you know that dealing with non-believers of the secular world is often messy.

I would like to invite you over to the main board, away from this area. This area is reserved for the Pastors and Menfolk, to discuss topics perhaps deemed delicate or even "sensational" in nature.

I am glad to hear you study your Bible and walk with Christ™.

[alethias_veritas]

Mistress Cookie, I would like to thank you for your kind response. :] I also appreciate your invitation to the rest of the forum. I would also like to say, though, that dealing with non-believers does not have to be messy. I have both Christian and non-Christian friends, and even some who are not sure yet. We often get into discussions all together about our beliefs, and it is always a polite, interesting discussion, never messy. Witnessing to others is only as messy as we make it. :]

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Dear friend:

We love people with Christian love, and we know that sometimes Christ wants us to show tough love:

1 Tim. 5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Also, as for casting the first stone, the genuinely saved are without sin:

1 John 3:6:Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Originally Posted by alethias_veritas

Should we not strive to be Christ-like? Is that not the whole point of being a Christian?

Our job is not to be like Christ. He was who He was for a REASON. We are merely followers in his path. Just wanted to point this out because this seems to be a big quarrel with our view point.

[alethias_veritas]

Hello Pastor. :]

You bring up good points. Yes, at times tough love may be necessary. God himself showed tough love to us when he threw us out of the Garden. I showed tough love to you by posting my response. Yet sometimes tough love is not appropriate. The response to those new members on the previous thread were inappropriate. They did not come on here to attack anyone, but to answer a simple question, and for that they were attacked. That is not a proper way to show God's love.

For your second point: Be careful. By claiming that believers are without sin, and thus perfect, you are putting them on the same level as God and Christ. That is blasphemous. The bible tells us only God is truly perfect and without sin.

Romans 3:10 says: As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one.

Romans 3:22-24 says: This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

You see, being a believer does not mean you are without sin. It means that you try very hard not to sin, but when you do, because we are human and we inevitably will, you ask God's forgiveness. Believers sin. Non-believers sin. We are the same. We should all treat each other the same.

[alethias_veritas]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 25:17

Our job is not to be like Christ. He was who He was for a REASON. We are merely followers in his path. Just wanted to point this out because this seems to be a big quarrel with our view point.

May I ask, then, what is the point of being a Christian, if not to follow the teachings of Christ and strive to live like his example?

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Originally Posted by alethias_veritas

That is not a proper way to show God's love.

What are the proper and improper ways to show God's love? Support your answer with Scripture.

For your second point: Be careful. By claiming that believers are without sin, and thus perfect, you are putting them on the same level as God and Christ. That is blasphemous. The bible tells us only God is truly perfect and without sin.

You be careful. I've already quoted a relevant verse from 1 John; what do you make of it? As for your verses from Romans, we must interpret Scripture with Scripture. When the Bible says that we "have sinned" (perfect) but that whoever abides in God "sinneth not" (present imperfect), the clear meaning is that we sinned before we were saved, but that we no longer do.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by alethias_veritas

Hello Pastor. :]You bring up good points. Yes, at times tough love may be necessary. God himself showed tough love to us when he threw us out of the Garden. I showed tough love to you by posting my response. Yet sometimes tough love is not appropriate. The response to those new members on the previous thread were inappropriate. They did not come on here to attack anyone, but to answer a simple question, and for that they were attacked. That is not a proper way to show God's love.

I fear that you have fallen into the trap of presuming to know God’s will; I can only assume that you have not read Pastor Isaac Peter’s words.

Many times our personal (as opposed to spiritual) conscience prompts us to oppose an action that God has willed. Take the famous example of the bears killing children for mocking the prophet. Is that right to you? Perhaps not but it is all part of the revealed nature of The Lord.

Many words of God can be seen as absolute, e.g. Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Others are addressed to a particular audience or situation. To the untutored mind, there are conflicts in verses and advice. These are not discrepancies; it is natural. Are they conflicts or are they nuances explanatory to earlier pronouncements?

For your second point: Be careful. By claiming that believers are without sin, and thus perfect, you are putting them on the same level as God and Christ. That is blasphemous. The bible tells us only God is truly perfect and without sin.

Then how do we explain 1John3:6?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 25:17

Our job is not to be like Christ. [...]

As someone else said, "God has created us "in his own image," and that this image is seen most clearly in Jesus Christ. He is the image of the invisible God, and God is in the process of conforming us to be more like Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 3:18). We will never be exactly like Jesus (he existed even before the beginning of time as part of the Godhead, and we’ll never do that!), but God offers us something as close as possible. We will be like Jesus."

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by alethias_veritas

May I ask, then, what is the point of being a Christian, if not to follow the teachings of Christ and strive to live like his example?

As a Christian, surely you recognize that Jesus (Christ is a title, as in "the Christ", not a name) is God.

Yes, we should live in His (not "his") image.

We should utterly destroy His enemies. We should make their cities uninhabitable wastes. We should enslave their children. We should execute witches and homosexuals and adulterers and those who decide to follow other gods. We should require rapists to marry their victims.

"Oh, no," you will doubtless say. "That's from the OLD Testament!" Jesus told us that the entire Law is still in effect. Did you miss that part?

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

We should slaughter 1/3 of all mankind, just like Jesus' four angels will. (See Revelation 9:15.)

Yes? That's what you meant, right?

Or do you reject who God is, and replace Him with some happy-hippie version of your own creation that you like better?