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Default Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:00 AM

It's a question that a lot of Christians cannot answer without pulling out the silly "God's will" speech (which still makes Christianity seem like a horrible religion in this situation).
Why would an Omni-benevolent (All loving), Omniscient (all knowing) God create a person knowing they would go to hell.
A lot of people say it's to test the person, but if God KNEW you were going to hell why would it be loving for him to send you to hell?
If he is real, then I can't help but think he's the biggest a-hole in the world for creating 2/3 of this world that aren't his little cheerleaders and sending them to hell.
It's equivalent to worshiping a super hitler to me.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
It's a question that a lot of Christians cannot answer without pulling out the silly "God's will" speech (which still makes Christianity seem like a horrible religion in this situation).
Why would an Omni-benevolent (All loving), Omniscient (all knowing) God create a person knowing they would go to hell.
A lot of people say it's to test the person, but if God KNEW you were going to hell why would it be loving for him to send you to hell?
If he is real, then I can't help but think he's the biggest a-hole in the world for creating 2/3 of this world that aren't his little cheerleaders and sending them to hell.
It's equivalent to worshiping a super hitler to me.
First of all, this is NOT a debate forum. Please read THIS thread before making an even bigger fool of yourself.

Secondly, while the internets might seem to be "free" to you, this particular corner of the internets is a privately owned Christian forum. The rights you have on this forum are listed HERE. Please contact a Pastor immediately if you feel that any of your rights have been violated.

Finally, your unsaved opinions or tantrums are not even slightly of interest to us. We follow the Holy Word of God TO THE LETTER, and make no apologies for that. One of the most important commandments in the Bible tells us to avoid unsaved scum such as yourself. You wandered in here uninvited, and unwelcome .


Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit enter you and chase the demons out of your rectum and let Jesus fill you with His Grace. If you use your God-given free will to reject Christ and His temporary death on the cross for my sins, then you are sending yourself to hellfire.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
It's a question that a lot of Christians cannot answer without pulling out the silly "God's will" speech (which still makes Christianity seem like a horrible religion in this situation).
Why would an Omni-benevolent (All loving), Omniscient (all knowing) God create a person knowing they would go to hell.
Maybe as an example to the others? Look, just because God makes bad things happen does not make him nonexistant. When I eat burritos bad things happen, but that doesn't mean burritos don't exist.

Quote:
A lot of people say it's to test the person, but if God KNEW you were going to hell why would it be loving for him to send you to hell?
It's loving because God does it. God is love.

Quote:
If he is real, then I can't help but think he's the biggest a-hole in the world for creating 2/3 of this world that aren't his little cheerleaders and sending them to hell.
Considering God created YOU among them....No, I still love God.

Quote:
It's equivalent to worshiping a super hitler to me.
Are you saying Hitler is nonexistant? That's holocaust denial, which is banned on this forum. On this forum we vow to never forget the thousands of Jews who died in the holocaust.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:07 AM

Woah, way to give me a good impression of the good lord there mr.christ like.
It's called loving and understanding which I see none of in this forum.
I'm not trying to debate I'm asking a question, taking answers into consideration, and possibly pray that I may be blessed with faith.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:07 AM

Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb Thurmond View Post
Maybe as an example to the others? Look, just because God makes bad things happen does not make him nonexistant. When I eat burritos bad things happen, but that doesn't mean burritos don't exist.



It's loving because God does it. God is love.



Considering God created YOU among them....No, I still love God.



Are you saying Hitler is nonexistant? That's holocaust denial, which is banned on this forum. On this forum we vow to never forget the thousands of Jews who died in the holocaust.
-Your burrito analogy confuses me.I'm sorry but I would like if you would go further more into that.
-I'm not blessed with enough faith to automatically believe that God's will is the definition of true love(so sorry)
-I'm still confused on why he favors a minority fraction of the world.
-No, I do believe hitler existed. I'm saying Gods acts of favoring only one type of person which happens to be the 1/3 of people on earth is hitlerish to my perspective.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
Woah, way to give me a good impression of the good lord there mr.christ like.
Jesus is impolite. Deal with it.

Quote:
It's called loving and understanding which I see none of in this forum.
Quote the part of the Bible where Jesus tells us to understand the hellbound. He understands that the hellbound are a "Den of Vipers", and that's all that needs to be understood.

Quote:
I'm not trying to debate I'm asking a question,
You're asking us to read God's mind. Have you ever considered God likes his privacy? It is not our business why the vast majority of people are going to burn in hell.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
-Your burrito analogy confuses me.I'm sorry but I would like if you would go further more into that.
Atheists say "God does evil things" as if they proves His nonexistence. It doesn't.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?


Quote:
-I'm not blessed with enough faith to automatically believe that God's will is the definition of true love(so sorry)
Now it's God's job to bless you with faith? The welfare mentality is now on a spiritual level!

Quote:
-I'm still confused on why he favors a minority fraction of the world.
You don't need to know WHY. All you need to know is HOW. HOW starts with getting on your knees and repenting to the LORD.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
It's a question that a lot of Christians cannot answer without pulling out the silly "God's will" speech (which still makes Christianity seem like a horrible religion in this situation).
Why would an Omni-benevolent (All loving), Omniscient (all knowing) God create a person knowing they would go to hell.
A lot of people say it's to test the person, but if God KNEW you were going to hell why would it be loving for him to send you to hell?
If he is real, then I can't help but think he's the biggest a-hole in the world for creating 2/3 of this world that aren't his little cheerleaders and sending them to hell.
It's equivalent to worshiping a super hitler to me.
I'm really not sure what you want from us. First of all, it's a lot more than 2/3 of people that will be going to hell. That 1/3 are Christians include a lot of False Christians who will answer your challenge with "God loves everyone and there's many paths to Heaven".

We're just people, we have no way of comprehending why God does things, He has His reasons. He did however give us a book to live by, the KJV1611 Bible. Follow that and you'll avoid hell.


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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:25 AM

I appreciate your feedback sir, it's nice to know you are taking time to converse with me on this subject and I'd like to let you know this before I go on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb Thurmond View Post
Atheists say "God does evil things" as if they proves His nonexistence. It doesn't.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?




Now it's God's job to bless you with faith? The welfare mentality is now on a spiritual level!



You don't need to know WHY. All you need to know is HOW. HOW starts with getting on your knees and repenting to the LORD.
-I don't consider his nonexistence due to the fact that bad things happen, I'm forced to question his love with my unanswered questions.
-I can't just snap my fingers and say that have faith.Faith to me seems like a gift that some people have and some don't, the ones that don't have questions, unanswered ones that leave them in a whirl-pool of disbelief or confusion.
-If I replace my "why" with a "how" it turns the question into "How could God favor only 1/3 of the human population" which still shows a lot of similarity to my original question
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
I'm really not sure what you want from us. First of all, it's a lot more than 2/3 of people that will be going to hell. That 1/3 are Christians include a lot of False Christians who will answer your challenge with "God loves everyone and there's many paths to Heaven".

We're just people, we have no way of comprehending why God does things, He has His reasons. He did however give us a book to live by, the KJV1611 Bible. Follow that and you'll avoid hell.
With all respect ma'am, how do you know(other by word of mouth) that the Bible is the word of a supernatural being?
I appreciate feed back
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
With all respect ma'am, how do you know(other by word of mouth) that the Bible is the word of a supernatural being?
I appreciate feed back
Because it says so in the Bible. Are you slow or something?


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
Because it says so in the Bible. Are you slow or something?
If I write a book that says something and claim it is true simply because the book says so is considered circular reasoning.
That's not a correct way to prove something is true.
This is just how I see it. I wish I could have the faith to stand in your shoes of sureness of this subject sir.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Craids View Post
-I don't consider his nonexistence due to the fact that bad things happen, I'm forced to question his love with my unanswered questions.
Well the men on here are much more well versed on such things, but all I can really say is that he set it up that way and if you want to avoid being the chaff, then you should join the winning team.

Quote:
-I can't just snap my fingers and say that have faith.Faith to me seems like a gift that some people have and some don't, the ones that don't have questions, unanswered ones that leave them in a whirl-pool of disbelief or confusion.
No, you gain faith through prayer and reading the Bible.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

And perhaps you are right that some are chosen to have faith, and some are not. I'm really not sure, it's a question I'm wrestling with myself right now.

Quote:
-If I replace my "why" with a "how" it turns the question into "How could God favor only 1/3 of the human population" which still shows a lot of similarity to my original question
Again, I'm going to say, it's a lot less than 1/3



Edit:
Sorry, my network went down while I was responding, so I didn't get this done before you reposted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
With all respect ma'am, how do you know(other by word of mouth) that the Bible is the word of a supernatural being?
I appreciate feed back
Yes it comes down to faith, when I was baptized a feeling came over me that was just amazing. I felt light enough to float away. You read the Bible, you pray for understanding of the Bible, and it is revealed to you.


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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:43 AM

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Originally Posted by BelieverInGod View Post
Well the men on here are much more well versed on such things, but all I can really say is that he set it up that way and if you want to avoid being the chaff, then you should join the winning team.


No, you gain faith through prayer and reading the Bible.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

And perhaps you are right that some are chosen to have faith, and some are not. I'm really not sure, it's a question I'm wrestling with myself right now.


Again, I'm going to say, it's a lot less than 1/3
"No, you gain faith through prayer and reading the Bible."
I've read the Bible several time chronologically, cover to cover, and random books of by choice, it does not fix my urge to question all that is brought to me, and when I was a strong believer in the lord I did have questions, I prayed for faith, it was what I strived for everyday was to be more faithful in the lord. But as I gained knowledge of what before seemed to me as satanic such as science and philosophy I began to consider another stand on life, but even now I still beg to have the faith of a Christian.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:47 AM

Well maybe if you explain what made you lose faith we could help you a bit better. As I said, right now I'm wrestling with my own doubts as to whether predestination is a fact and if so whether or not I'm in the book of life.


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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Craids View Post
-I don't consider his nonexistence due to the fact that bad things happen, I'm forced to question his love with my unanswered questions.
God IS love. Since God's lovingkindness sends the vast majority of people to hell, it's obvious that that's a loving thing to do.

Quote:
-I can't just snap my fingers and say that have faith.Faith to me seems like a gift that some people have and some don't,
I feel the same way about scientific reasoning. And yet public schools still try to cram the scientific method down our children's throats!

Quote:
-If I replace my "why" with a "how" it turns the question into "How could God favor only 1/3 of the human population" which still shows a lot of similarity to my original question
And that's the problem with that question. Moving back to WHY, "Why do you need to know God's mind?" Do you believe Einstien when he says nothing can move faster than light? Do you need to know how he could condemn science-fiction writers, who love faster-than-light travel so much?
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craids View Post
"No, you gain faith through prayer and reading the Bible."
I've read the Bible several time chronologically, cover to cover, and random books of by choice, it does not fix my urge to question all that is brought to me, and when I was a strong believer in the lord I did have questions, I prayed for faith, it was what I strived for everyday was to be more faithful in the lord. But as I gained knowledge of what before seemed to me as satanic such as science and philosophy I began to consider another stand on life, but even now I still beg to have the faith of a Christian.
If you read the Bible and still do not believe, it is because God has intentionally hardened your heart from accepting the truth, because He hates you.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom.9:11-22 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

1 Kings 22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jeremiah 4:10 Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 01:01 AM

Thank you all for the feedback, I'm going to have dinner and relax for the rest of the day. I wish that those of you who I have conversed with would pray for me in my journey for faith and I might log back on tomorrow and discuss with you some more.
again , Thank you
-Gus
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Default Re: Why I can't be a Christian(Very Simple to understand) - 04-11-2010, 01:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Craids View Post
Thank you all for the feedback, I'm going to have dinner and relax for the rest of the day. I wish that those of you who I have conversed with would pray for me in my journey for faith and I might log back on tomorrow and discuss with you some more.
again , Thank you
-Gus
I don't think I'll be doing that.

Do you ever pray for the salvation of those who you feel are condemned?

Of course not! For, if we follow (as we ought) the example of our Saviour and the clear commandment of God, we would not dare to do so.



To clarify, consider what the Saviour said in John 17. After stating at length how God pre-selected a few out of the world to give to Jesus, it comes to verse 9 which states unequivocally "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou has given me; for they are thine."


To the extent that we are ever instructed to pray for any other than those who make a profession to this faith, it is in recognition that they may be God's elect who have not yet received the call to grace. Hence, we are instructed to "pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you.


(Matthew 5:44). We know that, as with Saul of Tarsus, we could find among the enemy one who has grace.



More telling on the subject, however, is the events immediately prior to the destruction by God of the nation of Israel told of in Jeremiah. Throughout the detailed accounts of the abominations of that nation, God repeatedly tells his prophet "pray not thou for this people" (Jeremiah 7:16; 11:14; 14:11). Then, as if to put the instruction into the hyperbolic range, God pronounces the futility of such prayer by saying "Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people." (Jeremiah 15:1). You simply cannot read the accounts given throughout the scriptures without recognizing that those who are clearly condemned of God are beyond any hope of intervention by prayer.



To bring the point into focus, consider the pronouncements of God that He has thrice given non-believers "up to uncleanness" (Romans 1:24), "up unto vile affections" (Romans 1:26), and "over to a reprobate mind" (Romans 1:28). What arrogance would we display to pretend we could pray them back into the good grace of Him who has given them up?
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