[Jim Farmer]

Re: Pray Mary Tyler Moore Dies Soon!

I am appalled at this site and all the posts here that come from people who claim to be true Christians. Did you all not read the guide lines here? You don't pray for someone to die because you want them to die or because they are in an abusive relationship. You pray for healing of their marriage as well as themselves. God will not give you what ever you ask in Jesus name if what you ask is not of a righteous nature. You pray for the perfect will of God, not for someone to die. Clearly God is into in this church if you believe what you are posting. Shame on you. Shame on all of you.

Yes Carol. I read the guidelines. Of course I did. And I'm very careful to abide by them. After all, they were inspired by none other than the Lord Himself!
Maybe you can point out to me where in the Bible God tells us what we can and what we cannot pray for. And if God tells us that someone is an abomination, surely it is for us to wish that person dead, as their life is clearly offending God.

P.S. I look forward to you introducing yourself in the Introductions section. It's always nice to fellowship with newcomers to God.

[Basilissa]

Re: Pray Mary Tyler Moore Dies Soon!

I am appalled at this site and all the posts here that come from people who claim to be true Christians. Did you all not read the guide lines here?

The Holy Bible is the only guideline I need, sweetie!

You don't pray for someone to die because you want them to die or because they are in an abusive relationship. You pray for healing of their marriage as well as themselves. God will not give you what ever you ask in Jesus name if what you ask is not of a righteous nature.

Who are you to tell me what is righteous and what isn't?

You pray for the perfect will of God, not for someone to die.

Sweetie, if dying wasn't part of the perfect Will of God, all humans would be immortal.

Clearly God is into in this church if you believe what you are posting. Shame on you. Shame on all of you.

I feel blessed by your persecution.

Matthew 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Pray Mary Tyler Moore Dies Soon!

I have no idea who Mary Tyler Moore is but could not gloss over this:

Fellow Christians,

As a medical doctor, it is against my oath

I stopped reading right there. People who reject The Bible and in particular the New Testament where God's message of Salvation is presented in very straightforward terms are not Christians. Some parts of the message are direct commands.

EXAMPLE 1

MATTHEW 5 . KJV . look up
34 JESUS SPEAKING I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

Just before anyone suggests that oaths involving Apollo are not specifically excluded I'll point out that Swear not at all covers Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, Panacea, and any other nom de guerre adopted by Satan. Perhaps there's a modern version of the oath omitting names altogether? Still prohibited.

EXAMPLE 2

JAMES 5 . KJV . look up
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

James reiterates Jesus' command. Here any other oath gets a special mention. Wriggle though he might there is no possibility of binding oneself with any sort of oath and being a Christian at the same time.

I am appalled at this site and all the posts here that come from people who claim to be true Christians. Did you all not read the guide lines here? You don't pray for someone to die because you want them to die or because they are in an abusive relationship. You pray for healing of their marriage as well as themselves. God will not give you what ever you ask in Jesus name if what you ask is not of a righteous nature. You pray for the perfect will of God, not for someone to die. Clearly God is into in this church if you believe what you are posting. Shame on you. Shame on all of you.

Did you notice in my reply, above, that prophets get a particular mention? These are not prophets yet to come but those recorded in the Old Testament. James is quite clear that their example is for us today and even Job is presented as an example of how to deal with suffering. Sometimes prophets did the wrong thing because after all they're only human and all humans are born with a full dose of sin. The Law is spelled out in minute detail; the only way to deal with sin is a blood sacrifice. Only then can God bear to look at us. Various types of blood are endorsed, sheep, ox, bird, priests of Baal, a daughter, mostly these were incinerated so that God could smell their burning flesh like you don't have to agree with God but these are the sacrifices to have assuaged His anger or to have inspired Him to deliver success in battle. When there was any irregularity in the sacrifice, consequences were dire so there can be no doubt which sacrifices comply with The Law and which do not. But even the incineration of a belovèd daughter brings only temporary relief. That is why, in His infinite mercy, God provided Jesus as a divine source of blood having a more enduring effect. The Law remains in force, exactly as Jesus set it out for us so that we'd know and not start making stuff up because we didn't like the idea or something, and Christians claim Jesus' blood to satisfy the demands of God's Law. Everyone else gets the same outcome as before.

That is why the example of the prophets is so important. Let's face it if we could just eat a toadstool and hallucinate our own versions of reality there wouldn't be much need for prophets would there.

It's because what God requires cannot be gleaned from vegetation (or from contemplation) that we have the example of prophets to reinforce The Gospel and that is what James has explained. Moses was a prophet. What sort of entreaties did Moses bring to God?

EXAMPLE 3

There were people who had their own version of how to arrange worship. They didn't want to worship a different God, they just wanted to divide the duties a little differently and brought their suggestion to Moses. Moses was not happy with their version of worshipping The LORD and prayed as follows:

NUMBERS 16 . KJV . look up
15 Moses was very wroth, and said unto the LORD, Respect not thou their offering: I have not taken one ass from them, neither have I hurt one of them.
16 And Moses said unto Korah, Be thou and all thy company before the LORD, thou, and they, and Aaron, to morrow:
17a And take every man his censer, and put incense in them..

Moses asked God to dis their offering. Would God think Moses' plan was appalling? A rejection by God has actual consequences and Moses spelled it out to demonstrate what sorts of prayer God agreed with. Korah is the ringleader, Dathan and Abiram are the hangers-on. They run team handed:

EXAMPLE 4

23 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the congregation, saying, Get you up from about the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.
25 And Moses rose up and went unto Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel followed him.
26 And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.
27 So they gat up from the tabernacle of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, on every side: and Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the door of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little children.
28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.
30 But if the LORD make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

See how God has set everything out for us so that we could be in no doubt what the example of this prophet was to be? Moses prayed, God listened, God approved, the whole lot of them were dealt with in accordance with Moses' prayer. Would God do that if the prayer was inappropriate? Would James have referred us to the examples of the prophets if the examples were no good?

Notice in verse 27 who is included. The wives, the sons, the little children. None of them were spared. Moses prayed, God listened, God approved. Imagine one of those little children watching its father ignite that incense. The pleasant bouquet. The smiling face, proud of daddy and of his devotion to The LORD whom he so longed to serve. Mummy would be there too, perhaps a little apprehensive but she would look after me if anything went wrong. The ground trembles, a crack appears, you look across at me worried now. A mutual friend falls into the crevasse screaming. Screaming for dear life. Futile. Daddy burned incense the wrong way. Moses prayed. God listened. God approved. A fragment splinters off striking me in the eye. I can hardly see for the blood, try to wipe it away, see you falling. I become weightless, seem to fall forever. A sickening thud, I'm only a little way down, the other children flailing by helpless I look around and then the horror begins.

You are there beside me, no Mummy no Daddy, just you and as the boulder lands I see your head explode and I am ruined. These are little children clearly distinguished in The Bible so we will know what happens when God approves of prayer even if you don't. The heathen will announce that this is gross, murder upon murder of innocents and that is why we need The Bible to tell us what is right and what is wrong.

James pointed out how The LORD is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. God does not change. He is not kind and loving one day and an insane murderer the next. He's the same every day. None of those little children were spared. None of the wives. There is no limit to God's mercy. Just think, what would have happened if you were the child who saw that father perish but had yourself been spared? Would you as an adult remember and again suggest unorthodox incense burning? Next you might meet someone from a different tradition and hang around with them a bit, see how they burned incense, even go to their temple!

It is the example of prophets we are to follow, not heathens or Buddhists or Zoroastrians and certainly not secularists who see no reason ever to pray at all. Christians do not pray to Buddha or to Zoroaster. Christians pray to The LORD, the God of Abraham and of Isaac and most particularly the God of Moses. This is the God of the New Testament, the God every Christian adores.

Hallelujah! Thank you for showing me The Truth.

Thank you Jesus.

Thank you Lord.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Pray Mary Tyler Moore Dies Soon!

You pray for the perfect will of God, not for someone to die.

But it was the Will of God that MTM died... where's the problem? Or perhaps your atheist inspired "feelings" tell you that God has nothing to do with death?

Can you explain yourself?