What you must do to be "saved" according to Catholicism

[James Peter]

Hello, I am a Catholic and I have to say all of you are very confused. Having faith in God does not save you. No. The Saving grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ is a very easy thing to achieve, and it is as follows:

1) Accept the Lord Jesus and your Personal Lord and Savior (this is where the Protestant stooges usually stop)
2) Get baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit by a Catholic Priest
3) Eat the body and blood of Christ after a Priest has transubstantiated it from bread and wine.
4) Do this every week, as well as reciting the same prayers and listen to some homilies and Bible readings once a week on Sundays, while making sure to stand up, sit down, and kneel on command.
5) Don't sin. Basically, obey everything from the official Catechism. If you do sin, tell a Priest about it so God can forgive you.
6) Have a priest call down the Holy Spirit to live in you.
7) Get married and have lots of children and bring them up in your beliefs, baptize them while they are still babies. Alternatively, you can become a leader within the church community by become a Priest. Or if you are just a woman, you can be a nun.
8) Praying to Jesus' mother while holding some beads also seems to help. Keeping paintings and statues of good dead Catholics in your home, car, and place of work can't hurt either.
9) Having some oil rubbed on you before you die also helps increase your chances.
10) Then, if you have died and have confessed all your mortal sins to a Priest, you might be saved. If you have even one unconfessed mortal sin though, you go straight to hell. If you have venial sins unconfessed, you will have to go to purgatory (temporary hell that lasts for however long God sees fit, possibly a few decades) before you get into heaven. If people on earth say prayers or contribute money to the church in your name, however, your time in purgatory can be greatly reduced.

See, it's so simple, why do you have such a problem keeping this up.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: What you must do to be saved

Hello, I am a Catholic and I have to say all of you are very confused. Having faith in God does not save you. No. The Saving grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ is a very easy thing to achieve, and it is as follows:

1) Accept the Lord Jesus and your Personal Lord and Savior (this is where the Protestant stooges usually stop)

We are not Protestants, for the last time. We're independent Bible-believing Baptist True Christians(tm)!

2) Get baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit by a Catholic Priest

Where in the Bible does it state it has to be performed by a dress-wearing pervert?

3) Eat the body and blood of Christ after a Priest has transubstantiated it from bread and wine.

That sounds an awful lot like witchcraft. Changing one thing to another.

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

4) Do this every week, as well as reciting the same prayers and listen to some homilies and Bible readings once a week on Sundays, while making sure to stand up, sit down, and kneel on command.

The Bible does not say that is required for Salvation(R).

5) Don't sin. Basically, obey everything from the official Catechism. If you do sin, tell a Priest about it so God can forgive you.

So your cathechism usurps the Bible in authority? That is why you're going to Hell, papist scum!

6) Have a priest call down the Holy Spirit to live in you.

Again, more witchcraft and magic powers. We all know God's stance on that.

7) Get married and have lots of children and bring them up in your beliefs, baptize them while they are still babies. Alternatively, you can become a leader within the church community by become a Priest. Or if you are just a woman, you can be a nun.

The Bible makes it clear you must be an adult to baptize. Also, bishops are required to have one wife. Priestly chastity is anti-Biblical.

8) Praying to Jesus' mother while holding some beads also seems to help. Keeping paintings and statues of good dead Catholics in your home, car, and place of work can't hurt either.

Praying to Mary is a waste of time. We have one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ.

1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

9) Having some oil rubbed on you before you die also helps increase your chances.

More priestly "magic".

10) Then, if you have died and have confessed all your mortal sins to a Priest, you might be saved. If you have even one unconfessed mortal sin though, you go straight to hell. If you have venial sins unconfessed, you will have to go to purgatory (temporary hell that lasts for however long God sees fit, possibly a few decades) before you get into heaven. If people on earth say prayers or contribute money to the church in your name, however, your time in purgatory can be greatly reduced.

See, it's so simple, why do you have such a problem keeping this up.

Mortal sins, venial sins, purgatory, confession to priests, time in purgatory reduced by money (similar to indulgences)...

All just made up heretical nonsense which is nowhere in the Bible and even contradicts it. There is one particular part of the Bible which does mention the Catholic Church, however...

Revelation 17:5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[...]
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

[David Goldman]

Re: What you must do to be saved

Hello, I am a Catholic and I have to say all of you are very confused. Having faith in God does not save you. No. The Saving grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ is a very easy thing to achieve, and it is as follows:

. . .

10) . . . If people on earth say prayers or contribute money to the church in your name, however, your time in purgatory can be greatly reduced.

If I were you guys (and praise the LORD I'm not), I'd demand a "triple your money back" guarantee. Because I'm inclined to believe that one of the early popes must have been an ancestor of B.T. Barnum . . .

[David Goldman]

Re: What you must do to be saved

Sorry -- make that P.T. Barnum. I can't even type straight when trying to deal with your heresies.

[James Peter]

Re: What you must do to be saved

We are not Protestants, for the last time. We're independent Bible-believing Baptist True Christians™!

Baptists would fall under the category of Protestantism...

Baptists number over 110 million worldwide in more than 220,000 congregations and are considered the largest world communion of evangelical Protestants with an estimated 38 million members in North America.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist#Statistics

Where in the Bible does it state it has to be performed by a dress-wearing pervert?

It has to be done by a successor of the Apostles.

That sounds an awful lot like witchcraft. Changing one thing to another.

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

So what was Jesus the wine and bread was His Body and Blood, what did He mean?

The Bible does not say that is required for Salvation®.

Yes, but the Church teaches it, and the Bible says everything the Church teaches is bound in heaven.

So your cathechism usurps the Bible in authority? That is why you're going to Hell, papist scum!

But the catechism says the Bible is 100% true and should be followed. I'm sure Landover has its own founding documents that outline the church's beliefs, like all you self-indulgent Protestants, some of which is not in the Bible. Here's one thing not taught in the Bible - SOLA SCRIPTURA!

Again, more witchcraft and magic powers. We all know God's stance on that.

It's not witchcraft, it's asking God to do something.

The Bible makes it clear you must be an adult to baptize. Also, bishops are required to have one wife. Priestly chastity is anti-Biblical.

Does the Bible say that about baptism? Where?

Praying to Mary is a waste of time. We have one mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ.

1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

Tell Us Plainly

One nagging question remains: Why doesn’t Scripture tell us Mary’s role plainly? The Pharisees once asked Jesus, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." In fact, Scripture has a lot to say about Mary.

"The woman," the mother of the Redeemer, is seen from Genesis (3:15) to Revelation (11, 12). Prominent Old Testament women such as Hannah, Judith, and Esther prefigure Mary and give insight into her place in salvation. We see her in the queen mother interceding with the Davidic king for the people (1 Kgs. 2:19–20) and again as intercessor in Cana (John 2). Finally, she is the Mother of the Son of God! John Henry Cardinal Newman said, "Men sometimes wonder that we call her Mother of life, of mercy, of salvation; what are these titles compared to the one name, Mother of God?" (Mary: The Second Eve, TAN, 20).[JC3]

Converts must be reminded not to slip into a sola scriptura mindset. God does not speak only through the written word but through the Church, and the Church has told us plainly of the importance of Mary.

Mary is a "garden enclosed," God’s "Holy of Holies," which is not to be put on display but revealed to those who come with respect and love. If we approach with sincerity, we will learn the truth of the words of Jewish convert Alphonse Ratisbonne, who had an unexpected encounter with Mary:

I could not give an idea in words of the mercy and liberality I felt to be expressed in those hands. It was not only rays of light that I saw escaping thence. Words fail to give an idea of the ineffable gifts that flow from those hands of our Mother! (Janice T. Connell, Meetings with Mary, Ballantine Books, 69)

More priestly "magic".

James 5:14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mortal sins, venial sins, purgatory, confession to priests, time in purgatory reduced by money (similar to indulgences)...

All just made up heretical nonsense which is nowhere in the Bible and even contradicts it. There is one particular part of the Bible which does mention the Catholic Church, however...

Revelation 17:5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[...]
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Whore_of_Babylon.asp

If Not the Whore, the Bride


The fact that the Catholic Church is singled out by Fundamentalists as the Whore reveals that they intuit the fact it has an important role in God’s plan. No other church gets accused of being the Whore—only the Catholic Church. And it is understandable why: The Catholic Church is the largest Christian body, larger than all other Christian bodies put together, suggesting a prominent place in God’s plan. Fundamentalists assume, without objectively looking at the evidence, that the Catholic Church cannot be the Bride of Christ, so it must be the Whore of Babylon.

Yet the evidence for its true role is plain. The First Vatican Council taught that "the Church itself . . . because of its marvelous propagation, its exceptional holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in all good works; because of its Catholic unity and invincible stability, is a very great and perpetual motive of credibility and an incontestable witness of its own divine mission" (On the Catholic Faith 3).

So why is the Bride maligned as the Whore? Jesus himself answered the question: "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household" (Matt. 10:25). "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world . . . the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you" (John 15:18–20).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

[godsdrummer]

Re: What you must do to be saved

I have two questions, Peter, and one statement.

1) What are you doing on this most Godly of forums? If you are trying to convert any of us to your twisted, perverted and down right SICK religeon, I'd have to say, give up, because it isn't ever going to work

2) Do you enjoy spouting off useless knowledge that hardly any of us are remotely interested in? Most of the Christians on this forum are going to rebuttle and call you wrong (if you didn't notice, you are wrong).

As for the statement, your constant babbling makes no sence, and honestly gives me a headache from trying to figure it out. I'm not well versed in the Bible, I won't deny that, however I have read enough to know what you say isn't logical. Well, at least not to a True Christian, who reads the one true KJV 1611 Bible.

[James Peter]

Re: What you must do to be saved

1) It doesn't matter to me what you think, I am doing my Godly True Catholic(tm) duty to draw in as many into the Holy See as possible.

2) You say I'm wrong, yet you don't say how exactly. Interesting...

As for your statement, it's not my fault you are too stupid to understand what I have plainly written. I guess your homeschooling just can't compare to a proper Catholic education.

[James Hutchins]

Re: What you must do to be saved

1) It doesn't matter to me what you think, I am doing my Godly True Catholic™ duty to draw in as many into the Holy See as possible.

Nor does it matter to any of us what YOU think. You will not be able to draw a single soul here into your satan praising, papist ring kissing whorish life.

2) You say I'm wrong, yet you don't say how exactly. Interesting...

You are because you are a lying moron. That better?

As for your statement, it's not my fault you are too stupid to understand what I have plainly written. I guess your homeschooling just can't compare to a proper Catholic education.

You write like the devil. Your education is a joke. Your 'religion' only has members due to fear and coercion, just like the mafia, right up to paying tribute to the don, I mean poop, I mean pope.

You really are a loser.

[James Peter]

Re: What you must do to be saved

Nor does it matter to any of us what YOU think. You will not be able to draw a single soul here into your satan praising, papist ring kissing whorish life.

So that means I shouldn't do what the Lord God commanded, to preach the gospel to all creatures?

You are because you are a lying moron. That better?

What did I lie about?

You write like the devil. Your education is a joke. Your 'religion' only has members due to fear and coercion, just like the mafia, right up to paying tribute to the don, I mean poop, I mean pope.

And yours doesn't? You only have members because you tell everyone that they will go to hell if they don't. Catholicism doesn't have to rely on such tricks, because we know Purgatory exists. No, we obey the Church's teachings because we would be ashamed to reject the wonderful Church Jesus founded.

You really are a loser.

At least I'm going to heaven, unlike you and the other 5 billion non-Catholics.

[godsdrummer]

Re: What you must do to be saved

Peter, for your information, I graduated from a High School, with rather high marks at that. So don't even go there about my education.

And as I have stated before, I'm not particularly well versed in the Bible just yet, I'm reading it, so could I show you where you are wrong? No, but I am 95% sure that the Bible says nothing about praying to Mary, or confessing your sins to a priest.

[Chazona3]

Re: What you must do to be saved

I thought the whole "bread and wine into body and blood" thing was only supposed to be symbolic, since Jesus says "...in remembrance of me". (I can't, for the life of me, find the exact passage right now, but I know it's in there.)
And aren't you supposed to make a concious decision to be baptised? How can babies make that decision? They don't even know colors or shapes yet.
Why does everything have to be performed by a priest? Am I not allowed to read the Bible myself on, say, a Thursday?

Catholics confuse me...

[James Peter]

Re: What you must do to be saved

I thought the whole "bread and wine into body and blood" thing was only supposed to be symbolic, since Jesus says "...in remembrance of me". (I can't, for the life of me, find the exact passage right now, but I know it's in there.)

You are wrong. You are making Jesus out to be a liar.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402sbs.asp

CATHOLIC: Let’s see what Paul says about the Real Presence. Let’s take a familiar phrase that is too often misunderstood. Paul repeats the words of Jesus, "Do this in remembrance of me." These words were repeated by Luke in his version of the Last Supper in Luke 22:19–20.

OBJECTOR: The words "Do this in remembrance of me" prove my point. Jesus didn’t say anything about the Real Presence. He said only that this meal is a memorial meal.

CATHOLIC: When we hear these words, "Do this in remembrance of me," most of us probably imagine that Jesus was commanding his original twelve and us today to keep his memory before us. We imagine him to be commanding a mental act of remembering much as we would remember any other important event of the past.

OBJECTOR: Yes, exactly. There are no biblical texts that suggest anything more than this mental act of memory.

CATHOLIC: That’s where we disagree. I would include the mental act but I would not limit it to a mental act. The words of the eucharistic prayers remind us of this mental act when they say, "Calling to mind the death you Son endure for our salvation." It also means more than a mental act. In fact, it is the greater meaning of doing this meal in memory of Christ that makes sense of the mental act by individual Christians.

OBJECTOR: I don’t see any "greater meaning" in our Lord’s words. The Greek word Paul used for "memory" or "remembrance" is anamnesis. The phrase is always the same (eis ten emen anamnesin) no matter how differently it may be translated. It occurs 1 Corinthians 11:24–25 and in Luke 22:19. Verse 26 is important for understanding the meaning of the words "Do this in remembrance of me." It says, "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes." This verse shows that the remembrance involved is a proclamation of the gospel. When we eat and drink, we are reminded of the first Last Supper.

CATHOLIC: You’ll notice that in the passage quoted the word for begins verse 26 just after the phrase containing the term anamnesis. Verse 26 explains the meaning of doing this in memory. It says that anamnesis involves a proclamation of the Lord’s death in this act of consecration. But how does eating and drinking proclaim the Lord’s death as verse 26 says? Proclaiming a message usually involves preaching, teaching or speaking in some form. But recall the old saying that "actions speak louder than words." I suggest that it is through anamnesis that the Lord’s death is proclaimed. The eucharistic actions of the Church proclaim the Lord’s death by making the Lord present to the worshiping community of faith.

OBJECTOR: Yes, by making the Lord’s death present to our minds.

CATHOLIC: In Greek culture, anamnesis was a term used to denote the movement of an abstract idea into this material world. Plato, for example, used it as one of his key ideas. For him, knowledge was an act of anamnesis, or "remembering," whereby the realities of the world of forms (ideas) came to people in this world. So, anamnesis meant more of a process in which something in another world came to be embodied in this physical world.

OBJECTOR: You can’t use Greek culture to interpret the Bible. No matter what Plato meant, that doesn’t mean Paul was using Plato’s meaning.

CATHOLIC: The Corinthians lived in a Greek culture and it would have been natural for them to understand anamnesis as describing this transfer from the heavenly world to the material world. Even more importantly, if Jesus used Hebrew or Aramaic at the Last Supper, Paul (or whoever first translated the words of consecration into Greek) chose the term anamnesis. By doing so, he was allowing that anamnesis could have the meaning that Greek-speaking people associated with that term, namely, a transfer from the heavenly world to this earthly, material world.

OBJECTOR: It could have that meaning in Greek culture, but that’s no proof that Paul or Jesus intended it the way you say.

CATHOLIC: Remember that Paul was a Jewish Pharisee (cf. Phil. 3:5), and very possibly a rabbi (cf. Acts 22:2) before his conversion. All this means that when he used anamnesis, he may have used it with a Hebrew meaning as well as a Greek one. The Hebrew word for "memorial" is zikaron and it has a similar connotation to anamnesis in Greek culture. It is more than mental recollection. The celebration of the Passover was believed to involve a participation in the original exodus from Egypt. The purpose of this being an annual and perpetual event for the children of Israel was that every generation could experience the liberation from slavery that the first generation in Egypt had experienced. Thus, zikaron connotes a participation in an event of the past rather than simply a mental recollection of that event.

OBJECTOR: I agree that in celebrating the Passover the Jews were reliving the original event. That is what we non-Catholics do when we celebrate the Lord’s Supper in our churches. We relive the event by remembering Jesus’ death on the cross for our sins. It’s like a Civil War reenactment (with a much more profound meaning, of course).

CATHOLIC: Whether you approach this question from the Greek or Hebrew side, the result supports the notion of the Real Presence. When Paul quotes Jesus as saying eis ten emen anamnesin, he understands the meaning both in Greek and Hebrew senses. When Jesus said, "do this eis ten emen anamensin," he was not saying to simply remember him. He was telling his twelve apostles to perform the same actions that he did in order to bring the reality of him back to this world.

OBJECTOR: I’m sorry, but I don’t see all this "greater meaning" in this word. It just means "memory" or "remembrance."

CATHOLIC: That’s because you are still reading the Bible through its English meanings rather than delving into the language and culture in which it was originally written. Another text in 1 Corinthians 10:16–17 points to the Real Presence: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread." Now ask yourself: What must the cup and the bread be to make possible this participation in the blood and body of Christ? The most obvious and logical answer is that the bread and cup of wine must really be the body and blood of Christ.

OBJECTOR: I don’t think that is necessary at all. It could mean that we participate in the body and blood of Christ that are in heaven.

CATHOLIC: So you agree that verse 16 speaks of a real participation in Christ’s humanity? Notice that now you have moved from a pure mental recollection to a communion with Christ.

OBJECTOR: Yes, but I would say that it is a spiritual communion because Christ’s body can be only in heaven.

CATHOLIC: Where does the Bible say that Christ’s body can be only in heaven? I don’t know of anything in the Bible that teaches this limitation. Read verse 17 carefully. Paul says that partaking of the one bread makes many different people into one body. The explanation for how there can be only one mystical body of Christ is that everyone receives the same bread. This is a kind of mystical unity that would be impossible if the bread and wine were not the true body and blood of Christ. Ordinary bread and wine simply cannot unite people into the body of Christ, but bread and wine transformed into Christ himself can.

OBJECTOR: But I thought Catholic doctrine taught that it was no longer bread after the consecration. You see that Paul uses the word bread, so it can’t be a change into Christ’s body the way you claim.

CATHOLIC: Paul is speaking according to the appearances. It appears to be bread but, as I said, ordinary bread could not make people one in Christ’s mystical body of the Church. When Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Passover, he made the Eucharist our salvation meal. This meal surpasses the Passover because it contains what it signifies. In fact, that is the definition of a sacrament. The bread is called the body of Christ because it contains that body. So the Eucharist contains our salvation and forgiveness because it contains our Savior Jesus Christ. He teaches us this Real Presence when he used the words "Do this in remembrance [or memory] of me."

And aren't you supposed to make a concious decision to be baptised? How can babies make that decision? They don't even know colors or shapes yet.

Does the Bible say anything about conscious decision, hmm?

Why does everything have to be performed by a priest? Am I not allowed to read the Bible myself on, say, a Thursday?

Did I say you aren't allowed to read the Bible whenever you wanted? No, I didn't. Your strawmen arguments are ridiculous.

Catholics confuse me...

I imagine counting to ten confuses the likes of you, silly Protestant.

Peter, for your information, I graduated from a High School, with rather high marks at that. So don't even go there about my education.

Well yeah, they don't give the remedial students bad grades, it might hurt their self-esteem.

And as I have stated before, I'm not particularly well versed in the Bible just yet, I'm reading it, so could I show you where you are wrong? No, but I am 95% sure that the Bible says nothing about praying to Mary, or confessing your sins to a priest.

Why exactly should I listen to some silly woman who is "95% certain" about something. Do you actually know anything?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: What you must do to be saved

I thought the whole "bread and wine into body and blood" thing was only supposed to be symbolic, since Jesus says "...in remembrance of me". (I can't, for the life of me, find the exact passage right now, but I know it's in there.)[...] Catholics confuse me...

You are correct. You may wish to follow this link to an ironic representation of the stupidity of Catholicism

An Oak Tree by Michael Craig-Martin contains a glass of water that the artist declared he had turned into "a full-grown oak tree", created "without altering the accidents of the glass of water".[50]. The text he included as part of his work states: "It's not a symbol. I have changed the physical substance of the glass of water into that of an oak tree. I didn't change its appearance. The actual oak tree is physically present, but in the form of a glass of water."[50] In a Richard Dimbleby Lecture, on 23 November 2000 Sir Nicholas Serota said "We may not "like" Craig-Martin's work, but it certainly reminds us that the appreciation of all art involves an act of faith comparable to the belief that, through transubstantiation, the bread and wine of Holy Communion become the body and blood of Christ."[51]

Indeed, Catholics believe 7 impossible things before breakfast every day.

Once you believe in transubstantiation, the rest of their superstitious gibberish is easy to believe. And then the Devil has you!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: What you must do to be saved

You are wrong. You are making Jesus out to be a liar.

blah, blah, blah

If we are wrong then why is America, the greatest country ever to existed and clearly the most beloved by Jesus a CHRISTIAN country and not a Catholic country.

Sorry friend, Jesus is on our side of us TRUE Christians(tm) and if you don't REPENT of your depravity you will be kissing Satan's ring in Hell (and that ring won't be on Satan's hand).

[James Peter]

Re: What you must do to be saved

You are correct. You may wish to follow this link to an ironic representation of the stupidity of Catholicism Indeed, Catholics believe 7 impossible things before breakfast every day.

Once you believe in transubstantiation, the rest of their superstitious gibberish is easy to believe. And then the Devil has you!

So you are saying that you doubt the Bible when it says all things are possible through God? Oh ye of little faith. Why do you call Jesus a liar?