A Healthy Discussion

[Debater]

Hi, everyone.

I'm new here, and I would love to have a nice, healthy debate about creation and science. I went to a Christian school for elementary, middle, and high school and took multiple Bible classes, so don't accuse me of not having read it, because I have.

One big question in my mind right now is why exactly one can't believe in God and science. I do. I believe that God has always been here, and He made the Big Bang to begin creation of the universe.

However, I do NOT believe that the world was created in 6 days 6,000 years ago. This is because in addition to God, as I stated earlier, I believe science. There is conclusive evidence that the Earth is in fact billions of years old. What is this evidence? Carbon dating, fossils, and geology.

I know that the Bible says otherwise, but I am not a literalist. While I do believe in the Bible, I believe it is the INSPIRED Word of God, written by man with God's spirit influencing the process. However, though God is perfect, man is fallible, which means that the Bible might not be exactly right.

Another point I'd like to make is that I believe that the Bible contains a lot of symbolism in order to illustrate the meaning of the Word. Genesis? A metaphor describing how sin entered the world which was supposed to be perfect.

I am open to all questions and inquiries. I also consider myself to be VERY open-minded, so unless they are completely ridiculous and have no grounding, I will never reject an argument outright.

Thanks, everyone! I hope this doesn't end up going the wrong way.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

Dear friend:

I welcome you in Christ's abundant love.

According to the thread that you were supposed to read before posting, this is not a debate forum.

How can carbon dating prove that the earth is billions of years old? Even according to secular theories, carbon dating cannot determine the ages of things older than a few tens of millennia.

As for your assertion that the Bible might not be exactly right, God has promised to preserve His words:

Psalm 12:6-7: The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Do you believe that God keeps His promises?

As for your symbolic reading of the Bible, I refer you to this thread.

Thanks, and have a blessed day.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

[...] why exactly one can't believe in God and science. [...]

First read

Le:18:23: Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

I am hopeful that you see God's Word here as eminently wise, sensible and just. If you do not, you are banned. If you do then read this:

1Tm:6:20: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Now, you are not going to tell me that you think you are so far above God that you can decide which of His Words to obey and which to reject?

Science is equivalent to bestiality. I hope you do not have pets.

[Debater]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

Science =/= bestiality.

I suppose y'all think science is evil, correct?
Well, what about medical science? Huh? Ever notice that people live longer now? There's a reason. It's called doctors. Who went to medical school. And learned anatomy. A branch of SCIENCE.

Once again, I'm not saying that I don't believe in God, or a metaphorical interpretation of the Bible (though obviously this is not welcome here, but I feel the need to make my point). I'm saying that I think God CREATED science; He created the laws of physics and gravity and all that. How can one argue with that?

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

Science =/= bestiality.

I suppose y'all think science is evil, correct?
Well, what about medical science? Huh? Ever notice that people live longer now? There's a reason. It's called doctors. Who went to medical school. And learned anatomy. A branch of SCIENCE.

Once again, I'm not saying that I don't believe in God, or a metaphorical interpretation of the Bible (though obviously this is not welcome here, but I feel the need to make my point). I'm saying that I think God CREATED science; He created the laws of physics and gravity and all that. How can one argue with that?

Secular science is evil in that it's just an attempt to brainwash people into becoming atheists and remove His signature throughout creation. Hence Creation Science is an acceptable science because it is based on Truth. So I agree that God created Science, he just didn't create myths like evolution or heliocentric theories. Those are inventions by angry atheists.

Also, why do you think the Bible is a metaphor? That means you are interpreting it, which you admit even though the Bible warns us against doing just that.

2nd Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[Debater]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

So I agree that God created Science, he just didn't create myths like ...heliocentric theories.

Okay, I can understand y'all not wanting to believe evolution... though I believe it, that doesn't make it right. I just go with whatever has the most evidence behind it.

But... honestly? You're still stuck in the days where people believed the universe was geocentric? If you like, I could type a multiple-page explanation of why this isn't true. Instead, though, here's a nice, short summary.

You believe in gravity, correct? I hope so, considering you are not floating about in the air. Do you know how gravitational forces work? It is where a massive object pulls less massive objects towards its center. However, if that less massive object is still considerably large, it will orbit rather than simply plummet to the bigger object which is pulling it along. This would take me hours to explain, but I can if you need me to. Anyway, the Sun is, as we all know (I hope), more massive than the Earth. So naturally, the Earth is pulled towards the center of the Sun. However, because of the mass of the Earth, it is set in an orbit. The same thing has happened with the other planets in our solar system.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

If you want to discuss heliocentric theory, we have a recent thread about it. I suggest you read it because it gives our reasoning behind our logic; mainly because the Bible says so.

There's also scientific experiments you can do at home which proves the sun revolves around the earth.

Now, your theory of gravity causing orbits can be disproved by experiments in zero gravity environments. For example, ever see astronauts playing with stuff like bananas on board space shuttles? Now, the astronaut is so much more massive than the banana. Why doesn't the banana orbit the astronaut? It behaves freely.

One last thing: for the sake of argument, let's assume your theories about gravitational orbit are correct. It still proves an universe made of intelligent design. If the Earth was slightly closer, we'd fall into the sun. If the Earth was any further, we would be cast out into space. Therefore we've been set on the perfect orbit.

Either way, it is proof of God.

[Debater]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

I never said I did not believe in God. I believe that God created a heliocentric universe, though, because it corresponds with basic laws of physics and conclusive evidence.

And your statement about the astronaut and the banana? There's a simple explanation for that. Every single object in the universe has a gravitational field. The more massive the object, the stronger the field. Humans are not NEARLY massive enough to have a visible effect on other objects. If you like, you can look up the math behind it. It makes perfect sense.

Or do you not believe in math either?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

Okay, I can understand y'all not wanting to believe evolution... though I believe it, that doesn't make it right. I just go with whatever has the most evidence behind it.

But... honestly? You're still stuck in the days where people believed the universe was geocentric? If you like, I could type a multiple-page explanation of why this isn't true. Instead, though, here's a nice, short summary.

You believe in gravity, correct? I hope so, considering you are not floating about in the air. Do you know how gravitational forces work? It is where a massive object pulls less massive objects towards its center. However, if that less massive object is still considerably large, it will orbit rather than simply plummet to the bigger object which is pulling it along. This would take me hours to explain, but I can if you need me to. Anyway, the Sun is, as we all know (I hope), more massive than the Earth. So naturally, the Earth is pulled towards the center of the Sun. However, because of the mass of the Earth, it is set in an orbit. The same thing has happened with the other planets in our solar system.

You THEORY of heliocentracism only works if the sun is the size you CLAIM it is. Just because the SECULARIST liberal elite storm troopers rule the universities doesn't mean you can suppress dissent. Pastor Billy-Reuben isn't too yellow to tackle the problem so read about it here The Sun: Millions of miles away?

[Debater]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

You THEORY of heliocentracism only works if the sun is the size you CLAIM it is.

Oh, really? Then tell me, how big does the Bible say it is? Because I don't recall there being a passage on that.

[Nobar King]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

I know some people who think the world revolves around them. How do I calculate their gravitational field?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

Oh, really? Then tell me, how big does the Bible say it is? Because I don't recall there being a passage on that.

If you are not to full of it on Heliocentrism read the powerful teachings of Pastor Billy-Reuben on this

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=18076

[Debater]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

...He is claiming that the sun is no more than 500 miles away? That makes absolutely no sense. This would mean that my home state (Texas) is closer to the sun than it is to Maine!

And if the sun were only 500 miles away, the immense heat from it would destroy us. We could not exist in such conditions.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

...He is claiming that the sun is no more than 500 miles away? That makes absolutely no sense. This would mean that my home state (Texas) is closer to the sun than it is to Maine!

And if the sun were only 500 miles away, the immense heat from it would destroy us. We could not exist in such conditions.

You care to debate Pastor Billy-Reuben's science and stop with this apple and oranges comparison to Texas and Main? He covers the temperature issue. Do recall in your THEORY out space is only five miles away from you.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Healthy Discussion

...He is claiming that the sun is no more than 500 miles away? That makes absolutely no sense. This would mean that my home state (Texas) is closer to the sun than it is to Maine!

And if the sun were only 500 miles away, the immense heat from it would destroy us. We could not exist in such conditions.

Not unless the sun wasn't as hot as you thought it was. Everything exists in balance. If the sun was any closer, we'd burn up. If it was further, we'd freeze to death. Again, more proof that this is an intelligently designed universe.