[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

All the data fits.

Who told you that?

Why did you believe them?

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

Friedn, there are no rocks in Heaven. When you throw a rock up to Jesus, He always catches it and throws it back.

So, why doesn't he catch objects in space?

Please post relevant chapter and verse please. What you wrote sounds like a lot of fanciful make beleive.

It's not fanciful, it's evidence and you can see it with your own eyes. You can look at the evidence for the 2009 Jupiter impact event.



Clearly see the events that have happened for the Infrared Telescope Facilities. Gravitational lensing is clearly seen through the universe. You just need to find it.

Darn right Newtown was wrong.

Did you even read my post? The data fits, thus he's not wrong. If it didn't, then he would be wrong.

Why you think some Godless nutjob has the right to murder innocent children before they had a chance to repent to God is just plain sick! All those babies, doomed to Hell. And people like you think it is good. Come the Rapture, your name is going to be on Jesus's short list of Hellbound sinner!

Isaac Newton believed that there is order in the Universe because there is a God that orders it.

Newton's quotation about his Christian faith:

"All my discoveries have been made in answer to prayer."

"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

"Atheism is so senseless. When I Iook at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."

Who told you that?

I looked at the data myself, and it fits. You can do this also.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

I looked at the data myself, and it fits. You can do this also.

I have. It doesn't. If you're describing something taught in high school, what you were taught is false.

This is the real world. We have no time for lies.

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

I have. It doesn't.

Then, you've done it wrong. I just wonder was data you are talking about?

If you're describing something taught in high school, what you were taught is false.

I'm talking about the data that Isaac Newton achieved getting. It has shown for 400 years all the data fits. It may be taught in school or university, nevertheless, it's not false.

This is the real world. We have no time for lies.

I can say the same thing to you.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

So, just because the bible, who was written by several people in 1500 years has the proof of earth being flat?

Ah! So you do understand!

Gravity keeps us on the earth,

Not exactly. The thing that keeps you on earth is "intelligent falling". It is quite complicated and you would not understand. When God created Adam and Eve, 6000 years ago, you will remember that they sinned and were sent out of Eden. This event is known as "the Fall of Man". Before "The Fall of Man", Adam was kept on earth by God's Love. After the Fall, there was "Intelligent Falling." This is designed by God and it shows how we are attracted by Satan downwards to Hell, and we must work to love Jesus, so that we can go upwards to Heaven. There is just a little more attraction downward, so things fall to earth.

and those pictures are photoshops and paintings.

Yes, that's right.

And, four corners is a way of saying the 4 most distant places.

Yes, which proves the Earth is flat.

And, how do you explain all the pictures from outer space where the earth is clearly round?

Well a circle is round, isn't it? So what's the problem?

Yeah, I'm an atheist.

I don't think you are. I think you are just a naughty person who wants to cause trouble! You need to lose your attraction to Satan and Worldly things and accept Jesus more than you do now.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

I'm talking about the data that Isaac Newton achieved getting. It has shown for 400 years all the data fits. It may be taught in school or university, nevertheless, it's not false.

It was EXPLICITLY because the data did not fit that alternatives were sought. I'm not the one spruiking "science" here, you are. The onus is on you to supply evidence. There isn't any. That's why you can't find anything to copy/paste.

Now the secularist must never accept Truth, revealed in the Perfect history preserved for us in The Bible. Therefore these warped demoniacs merely warp their "theories" to fit observations. Until they in turn break down and some other tripe is brought up.

If you think we have not read this stuff you are mistaken. That's how we know A) you have not read it and B) it's a deception.

All the spume arising now in the ocean of your mind has been proven FALSE. Frequently; do some research before posting more inanity.

START HERE

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

It was EXPLICITLY because the data did not fit that alternatives were sought. I'm not the one spruiking "science" here, you are. The onus is on you to supply evidence. There isn't any. That's why you can't find anything to copy/paste.

Now the secularist must never accept Truth, revealed in the Perfect history preserved for us in The Bible. Therefore these warped demoniacs merely warp their "theories" to fit observations. Until they in turn break down and some other tripe is brought up.

If you think we have not read this stuff you are mistaken. That's how we know A) you have not read it and B) it's a deception.

All the spume arising now in the ocean of your mind has been proven FALSE. Frequently; do some research before posting more inanity.

Newtonian gravity theory is highly accurate in cases were relativistic effects are not important.

In cases were relativistic effects are important (i.e. velocities close to the speed of light) then General Relativity is a more accurate theory of gravity, and is fully accurate as far as we know.

It can be shown mathematically that Newtonian Gravity is the same as General Relativity in the limit of weak gravity and small velocities. (http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/pdf/orbites_energy.pdf) (http://qinf.fisica.unimi.it/~paris/FisBio/m101.pdf)

If there's "no evidence for gravity", what do you think is holding you down in your chair right now? Intelligent pulling? No evidence for that.

A couple of real world examples that Newtonian mechanics and gravitation DO work very well in the real world:

Guided by computers incorporating Newton's laws (note that we call them "laws", not opinions), all of the Apollo missions starting with Apollo 12 in November of 1969 landed within a few hundred feet of their aim points.

After a journey of almost three billion miles from earth to Neptune, again guided by Newton's laws, Voyager 2 missed its aim points by no more than a few thousand miles.

Where is your evidence that demonstrates a single instance where Newton's laws fail to correctly predict the motion of an object influenced by gravity?

Newton wasn't proven false. That's the first time I've heard the General Theory of Relativity called "tripe." In science, you might call a theory "tripe" if it fails to make any useful predictions. That's not the case with Relativity; its predictions have been verified multiple times, and in fact is consistent with EVERY experiment yet devised to test it.

You may choose to chide science because it fails to provide you with a Platonic ideal "truth", but that's not what science is for. You might find you respect it a lot more if you actually study it ("study" means: take upper-level physics courses like I have; not just cruise through life following a book.)

[James Hutchins]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

Friend, who you you think moves the sun every day and the moon every night? Who do you think replenishes the coal of the sun?
Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Kings 20:9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?
2 Kings 20:10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.
2 Kings 20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Psalm 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Psalm 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
Psalm 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.



'Scientists' and their 'theories'. Nothing more than crazed sorcery trying pass off a pack of lies.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

Joshua is a great book. And you know something?
If you dig up a copy of Joshua from Jesus' time it is exactly the same as the one you'd buy today. Try that with "science"

Mr Hutchins has quoted the historical record from 1405BC when Adonizedek led 5 armies against Jesus, because he was insane. He knew the extent of God's Love for the Israelites and that He had already annihilated two entire city states, all the women, all the children (apart from one family in Jericho because of a promise) and all the men. Nevertheless he set out and when you challenge God, expect unusual things to start. Just because you've never seen the sun stop moving you use a "theory" which cannot accommodate that historical fact. We know that it did happen therefore your challenge doesn't even begin to make sense. It cannot explain what God has done with the sun, and with the moon, in the past, let alone make predictions.

But 693 years later, in the time of Isaiah, a similar event was delivered by God to demonstrate His Majesty. Once again your theory de jour falls over. Before any idea may be used to make predictions it must accommodate observations. What you have posted does not.

Mr Hutchins has posted several other examples of events your "science" can't explain and recorded future historical observations which -- can you see a pattern emerging yet? -- this "science" is at a loss to comprehend. And you expect us to.. what, exactly? Deny God's Just Law and reject the Salvation purchased for us with blood? Worship the stars? That will never happen.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

A further 'observation' (that is what 'scientists do, right?) The KJV was last edited to fine tune the wording to better suit the modern world in 1611. In the ensuing years, God has not needed to change a single word. Yet 'Science' changes constantly. Every day, these 'scholars' tell us a new story and that what they told us yesterday was all bunk. Can you imagine what these people are going to say tomorrow?

Occam's Razor

I do not think you could get a simpler explanation for things other than 'God did it'. No 'Higgs Bosom Particle Hooey'. No 'theories'. Not a single guess. Just straight, first person, factual talk from the Entity that created it all. I honestly think the Bible could be shorter but people want explanations. Like this thread for the God haters and ethnic people.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

You know, in my library I have this picture on the wall. Now, as I see it, someone painted that and, whoever it was (i) must have had the concept in his mind (ii) that mind was inspired by The Lord.

Powerful, isn't it? Compelling even. The simplicity of it and its beauty speak of a Greater Mind - that of the Designer of The Universe.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

If you throw a rock in the air, see how it falls and where it falls.

It will fall exactly where God wants it to fall. Nothing else is possible.

First of all, this is NOT a debate forum. We're right and you're wrong, according to Jesus and the Holy Word of God. Please read THIS thread before making an even bigger fool of yourself.

Secondly, while the internets might seem to be "free" to you, this particular corner of the internets is a privately owned Christian forum. The rights you have on this forum are listed HERE. Please contact a Pastor immediately if you feel that any of your rights have been violated.

Finally, your unsaved opinions or tantrums are not even slightly of interest to us. We follow the Holy Word of God TO THE LETTER, and make no apologies for that. One of the most important commandments in the Bible tells us to avoid unsaved scum such as yourself. You wandered in here uninvited, and unwelcome .

If you want to debate people, THIS is the place to go.

Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit enter you and chase the demons out of your rectum and let Jesus fill you with His Grace. If you use your God-given free will to reject Christ and His temporary death on the cross for my sins, then you are sending yourself to hellfire.

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

You know, in my library I have this picture on the wall. Now, as I see it, someone painted that and, whoever it was (i) must have had the concept in his mind (ii) that mind was inspired by The Lord.

Powerful, isn't it? Compelling even. The simplicity of it and its beauty speak of a Greater Mind - that of the Designer of The Universe.

But, it's only a painting. You can't see it in the real world. There is not edge on planet Earth. Unless if you can provide evidence for that, the Earth is still spherical.

[A Follower]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

RotU, is Mercury moving at the speed of light? Of course not. Still Newton's "theory" of "gravity" can't predict Mercury's movement across the firmament. If a theory is incorrect in one case, than the entire theory is broken. Knowing Newton's theory is broken proves that the entire system of science and education is broken: not one high school in the world teaches Einstein's gravity formula, they're all still hung up on Newton, even though all scientists claim they will revise their thinking when someone else comes up with a better idea. But does that mean Einstein's theories do match the real world? No! Scientists are all talking about dark matter and dark energy despite there not being any evidence for either, just because their observations don't match the reality they want to see.

Look, I find it encouraging that you would hold up Newton's ideas despite the fact that a hundred years ago Einstein denounced Newton as a terrible hack whose ideas have no worth, and came up with his own theory as to why things fall. It shows you don't care about evidence, you only care about what you believe to be true. You are so very close to being a Christian, you just have to be aware that you could not just ignore the last hundred years of false scientific theories, but you could actually go right to the source of all that is true and factual. God is that source, and the Bible is His Word. Everything you want to know can be found in the Bible.

The only scientific theory that has never been proven wrong, and never will be either is "God did it."

Who would you rather believe, some alchemist from the dark ages who thought he could turn lead into gold or Someone who can turn lead into gold and Created you and the disk-like world you live on. I choose God, and I think you will too once you start opening up your mind to reality.

[IdiocyofMYUniverse]

Re: Scientific proof the Earth is flat!

RotU, is Mercury moving at the speed of light? Of course not. Still Newton's "theory" of "gravity" can't predict Mercury's movement across the firmament. If a theory is incorrect in one case, than the entire theory is broken.

You're incorrect. Simply because a given theory fails in one situation does not automatically imply it's completely wrong with no value at all. Instead, it usually means that the theory is incomplete, or other factors are involved in that particular situation. Every theory has a realm in which it is good and it is not good outside that realm. As the scope of scientists expands over time they get to know the limits of their theories and have to refine them or sometimes throw them overboard. Newton is good for everyday life on Earth, that's why it is taught at schools and that's perfectly justified.

Knowing Newton's theory is broken proves that the entire system of science and education is broken: not one high school in the world teaches Einstein's gravity formula, they're all still hung up on Newton, even though all scientists claim they will revise their thinking when someone else comes up with a better idea. But does that mean Einstein's theories do match the real world? No!

Einstein's theory of general relativity is indeed a better description than Newton's laws (I'll describe them in more detail in a minute). It is, however, far too complicated for a high-school level. I did general relativity in my final year of college physics, and it was by far the hardest course I ever did- it took several years of college to even understand the mathematical principles needed to understand it. Of course, professional physicists do use GR instead of Newton's laws, but they operate at a far more advanced level than a high school student needs. You need tensor calculus to understand GR, and you just can't get that at high school.

Scientists are all talking about dark matter and dark energy despite there not being any evidence for either, just because their observations don't match the reality they want to see.

Dark matter has very strong evidence, and it has been observed in gravitational observations many times. There is, however, some dispute as to what it is (although we do have a pretty good idea by now). The jury is still very much out on what dark energy is- it's basically whatever is responsible for the expansion of the universe being faster than theory predicts. This might be either due to other factors involved (most physicists think it is), or it might be because the current model is incomplete- although so far, every attempt at expanding GR to cover dark energy has failed.

Look, I find it encouraging that you would hold up Newton's ideas despite the fact that a hundred years ago Einstein denounced Newton as a terrible hack whose ideas have no worth, and came up with his own theory as to why things fall.

He expanded upon Newton's laws, and constructed a more detailed model based off Newton's original model This is by no means the same thing as dismissing them outright- again, more on this as a second.

...you just have to be aware that you could not just ignore the last hundred years of false scientific theories

As technology improves, we can perform better and more accurate experiments, so we can improve upon existing theories, find flaws in existing models, and make improvements upon them. Science is improving all the time, and as we gain more knowledge, we can update and improve upon our understanding.

Now, as for Newton vs Einstein: right now, Einstein's model is the most accurate model of gravitation known, and with the exception of the effects of Dark Energy, it explains all known situations accurately. For a while, Newton's model could say the same- indeed, in most situations, there is no significant difference between the predictions of Newton's model and Einstein's, and Newton's model is a very good approximation to Einstein's model for most everyday applications. Newton's model is incomplete; Einstein's model is a more accurate one.

Which brings me to the next point- it's very rare that an established scientific theory is later found to be completely wrong and without merit. There's a big difference between incomplete and wrong. As new discoveries are made and our understanding of physics is improved, usually what we are doing is augmenting and improving upon existing theories. Dropping an established theory at the merest hint of something not quite working will rarely get you anywhere.

To use your example of Newton and Mercury: ok, so Newton's model cannot predict Mercury's orbit. It does, however, work fine for every other planet. So it would be a very bad idea to discount it and assume it has nothing useful to offer- quite clearly, it seems to work well in a lot of situations. There are two much better explanations:

* The model is fine, but something else is affecting Mercury's orbit as well (it does sit slap-bang in the sun's magnetic field, after all).

* The model is not complete, and needs to be improved upon.

So what you'd do is try and discount any other factors, and if that didn't work, try and see if the theory could be improved. Again, this does not mean you should disregard it outright and start again from scratch; you'd only do that if there was no evidence at all that the theory was any good.