[Hmmm...]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Water is another problem for round-earthers; If the world were round, even if there were gravity, it would all just flow to the bottom.

yeah... ummm gravity =/= down

everything it pulled towards the centre of the earth not downwards.

lol @ bad science

[Lisa H]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

yeah... ummm gravity =/= down

everything it pulled towards the centre of the earth not downwards.

lol @ bad science

If everything is pulled towards the centre of the earth, everything will sucked into the centre of the earth.

[Brains-UseThem]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I have not bothered to read all 100+pages of this post. However, I will assume that no one before me has tried to explain exactly how the experiments suggested by Rev. Osbourne are wrong. I will take them one at a time, and try to explain why these experiments are wrong. I will also attempt to be kind and respectful, and I do hope that those who reply to me will do the same. Now often times Christians will ask others who don't believe to assume that God is real and the Bible is true to help illustrate their point. In this explanation, I will kindly ask for you to do the same many times. Assume that science is true when thinking about these. Even if you know that they are wrong, pretend for a moment. That is all I ask. Thank you.

Lets start with the "Jump" experiment. Jumping up and coming back doesn't prove that the Earth is flat. Nor does it disprove that the Earth is rotating at (roughly) 1000 miles per hour. Here is why. Though I can appreciate that many of you don't believe that the Earth is rotating so quickly, for our purposes here, just pretend like the ground under your feet is moving that fast. The reason you do not feel or notice it, and also why you seem to land in the same spot, is because you are moving at 1000 mph as well. Here is my counter experiment. Get in a car with a friend. (An enclosed car. No trucks or convertibles, because we want to remove the effects of air pushing on us.) One of you has to drive. Drive as fast as is legally possible. Now that you are moving at a speed, lets assume 50mph, the one who isn't driving merely needs to toss a baseball from his lap to about 12 inches. What you will see is that the ball more or less comes back to your hand. This is because you, the car, and the baseball are all moving at 50mph. If what the Reverend said was true about jumping and ending up far from where you started. When you toss the baseball up in the car, it should fly to the rear windshield at roughly 50mph, right? Another experiment that is closer to the Reverend's would be to take a train. Any train going anywhere at any speed. While standing on the train, jump straight up. This is better than the flatbed truck that the reverend mentioned because, once again, it will eliminate the effect of wind pushing on your body.



Now onto Blow. In this experiment I notice that there is a misunderstanding of the word "massive." The Reverend uses a balloon and a tiny shred of paper to prove his point by saying that the balloon, once inflated, is more massive than the paper. He is right. The balloon is more massive than the paper. However, the balloon is more massive than the paper when it is not inflated. Again, please assume that what science says is true and that the Earth is spherical. But science also tells us that the Earth is not hollow like the balloon in the Reverend's experiment, but that it is filled with molten rock and metal, not hollow like the balloon. However, lets use the balloon from the Reverend's experiment. But, also grab a bowling ball. Inflate the balloon to roughly the size of the bowling ball. In normal English the word massive is used to refer to things of large size. So an aircraft carrier in the U.S. navy is a "massive boat."
However, in science the word massive actually refers to mass. A concept that can be seen with the balloon and bowling ball. Even though they were the same size, if I forced you to choose which one to drop on your toes, you would choose the balloon. Because it is less massive, it won't hurt. Even though you inflated it to the same size. However, you cannot simply replace the balloon with the bowling ball and do the Reverends experiment and then prove that gravity doesn't exist because paper doesn't stick to the bowling ball either. The problem here is that the paper and the bowling ball are all under the influence of the Earth's gravity. (If you imagine that what science says is true) Also, if you are going to use this as a way to prove that science is wrong, you should use science's parameters. Assume science is correct in saying that the Earth is 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds. (Approximately) The average human male should be around 200 pounds. (Round numbers are easier) First, lets simplify our terms, by dividing the weight of the Earth by the weight of our human male. We get a 600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 relationship. But that is still too big to visualize. Lets use something easy to see. Like a car. A car is (roughly) 2000 pounds. So if you wanted to use a car in the Reverend's experiment as the balloon, you need something for the paper. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be seen with the naked human eye that would be small enough in mass to represent our human male. Even the tiniest grain of salt from your kitchen table would be too large. So, though I cannot give you an experiment that will easily prove for the existence of gravity on a spherical Earth, I hope that this will demonstrate why the Reverend's experiment doesn't disprove it. Again, if we want to disprove science, we have to use their own standards.


Finally, getting high. If you recall the proportions that science suggests. How big the Earth as compared to how small human beings are. I would simply say to this experiment, you are not getting high enough. A group of students at a university did an experiment that you can do yourself at home if you choose to. It is not an easy experiment, but you can, on your own, hold pictures in your hand of the curvature of the Earth that were taken on a camera you yourself sent up.

http://space.1337arts.com/

This is the site that will show you how it can be done.

I hope that some of you will consider what I have said here.

Have a lovely day.

We know the Earth is flat because the Bible tells us so. But for those of you skeptical, close-minded types that flat out refuse to accept the overwhelming Biblical evidence, I have designed some experiments you can do at home that will show you, before your very eyes, that the world is indeed flat, and not spherical as some crazy scientists proclaim. It's amazing how many people blindly believe in a spherical Earth, without ever having seen it for themselves! I intend to change that.


1) Jump!
Now, scientists claim that Earth is spherical and rotating at a speed of between 700-1000 miles per hour, depending on your latitude. This is a very high rate of speed. You can disprove this nonsense by simply jumping up as high as you can. Really, it's that simple. What happens when you jump? You come straight down to where you were. But, if the Earth were indeed spinning at such a fast speed, wouldn't you land hundreds of feet away?

If you were to stand in the flat bed of a truck going 75 mph, and jump straight up, what would happen? You wouldn't fall straight down. You would fall out of the truck. That's because trucks move, the Earth doesn't. This experiment proves the Earth is fixed in space and doesn't move.


2) Blow!
Since if the Earth is supposedly a sphere, it naturally comes to assume what would happen to people below the equator, like in Australia? Since they are underneath the sphere, wouldn't they fall off? This is where scientists come up with mumbo-jumbo like "gravity" and "centrifugal force" to explain away their theories. So, the scientists want you to think that because the earth is so much more massive than people or things, that people will naturally "stick" to the bottom of the earth because of gravity.

This can be disproved very simply. Get a balloon and inflate it as big as possible. It will be a spherical shape. Now, take a piece of paper and try to rip, tear, or cut the tiniest speck of paper possible. This paper represents a human being, much smaller in mass to the balloon, which represents the Earth. Now try and place the small piece of paper to the underside of the balloon. What happens? It falls off!

That's right. Even though the balloon is so much bigger in mass, it cannot hold the tiny paper. So if the Earth was a sphere, no one could live below the equator because they would fall off.


3) Get High!
Ok, this one you really can't do at home, but you can do it out in the world. Stand on the ground and look around you. What's the farthest you can see? Maybe it's a building, tree, or mountain. Now, find some place very close to it where you can get a much higher vantage point. (This also works if you're on a jet and about to take off.) Notice how in the higher place you can see much farther? You can see more of the world the higher you get. This shows the world is flat because the higher you go, the easier it is to see over obstacles. At the same time, it shows the world cannot be spherical. Because if the world was curved, the far distance would forever remain out of view because of the Earth's curvature. It would eternally be over the horizon.

If the Earth was a sphere, it would not matter how high you went, you would still see the same thing. Since this is not the case, the Earth is flat.


These experiments are all confirmed by creation scientists as being 100% accurate. If you're skeptical of the flat Earth, why don't you do these experiments so you can see truth with your own eyes.

Yours in Christ,

Rev. Jim Osborne

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I have not bothered to read all 100+pages of this post.

In that case we won't bother to read your posting.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

I have not bothered to read all 100+pages of this post.

So The Bible will have been quite beyond you...

Finally, getting high. If you recall the proportions that science suggests. How big the Earth as compared to how small human beings are. I would simply say to this experiment, you are not getting high enough. A group of students at a university did an experiment that you can do yourself at home if you choose to. It is not an easy experiment, but you can, on your own, hold pictures in your hand of the curvature of the Earth that were taken on a camera you yourself sent up.

Further to my earlier explanation, a picture to show how the curvature is seen, it is an illusion.

The rays of sight leaving your eyes eventually fall to the ground at a certain distance and thus horizons appear curved.

[Tietsu Cohren]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

It makes my heart sing to see such persons of faith, band together. It seems every day my heart is weakened by the faithless idiots that carry themselves as 'teachers' yet carry with them not a bible, but tome of lies.

Reverend, I love your experiments I have tried to teach them to those at my mission, the younger children seem to enjoy it, but the older ones do not seems to fully realize the power of what they see.

Perhaps, one day they will see.

Pleased be his servants in faith.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Ah, welcome to Landover, God's Favorite Church. (Strange Avatar) Why not go over to the Introduction Thread and tell us a little about yourself, e.g. favorite Bible verse, how many sons you have fathered, and why you love Jesus so much?

[HumbleHuman]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Further to my earlier explanation, a picture to show how the curvature is seen, it is an illusion.

The rays of sight leaving your eyes eventually fall to the ground at a certain distance and thus horizons appear curved.

I see you wrote "rays of sight" here, but what I assume you mean is rays of light. "Sight" is contained entirely within the eyeball, optic nerve, and brain. You can think of the world as a thin membrane contained on the surface of the eye; having two eyes creates depth perception, and each eye converts the images you see into a form more easily processable by your brain. Light is what hits the eyes making this process possible. As such, what is curved in the image is not sight, but light.

You also used the term 'Ray' which is defined as "..part of a line which is finite in one direction, but infinite in the other." and also as "any of the lines of light that appear to radiate from a bright object." Please notice that both definitions make use of the word "line," I will spare you this definition, because I will assume you know what it means. There is a word that can be used to describe the (erroneous) path of light in the image you posted, and that is the word Curve. Please notice that no where in these definitions is that word, instead you find the word line.

While it is quite easy to prove that light as depicted in your image is fallacious, you can even be proved wrong using this fallacious model. (I must add that light can be curved by massive gravitational fields, and another artificial process, but both are irrelevant here, and if you attempt to argue using them you will be forced to concede the earth is indeed spherical.)

Now, many of your fellow believers have repeatedly stated that the earth is circular. Flat, but circular. Great. That's a step in the right direction. Your image appears to suggest that the earth is not only flat, but infinitely planar. Now, because the earth is circular, if you were to take a tall enough box into the center of North America, and place an observer on top if it, this observer could indeed see the edges of this 'circular' earth (because even in your invalid image of the path of light, it still perpetually moves forward, almost reverse logarithmically, and thus if you were able to stand high enough you could see the edge.) Great. This observer could understandably assume that his observation could be attributed to the Earth being circular and flat. Let's break that down. What he is actually observing is the earth being circular. He does not see the earth as being flat, but makes that assumption for whatever reasons. (Fact: Earth from this perspective is circular; Infer: Earth must be flat.)

(I'm aware this model is based on a spherical Earth, but I hope that in the spirit of the discussion we can agree that what this individual would see would be extremely similar to this image.)

Now, let's place another observer somewhere on Earth, let's say central Europe. This observer gets on top of his box, and sees the same thing! The Earth is circular! This means it must be flat! And let's continue to place observers all over the Earth. Africa, South America, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, Russia, China, India. Each and every single one of these observers will climb on top of their box and see the same thing: The Earth is circular. Some may take a step forward and assume that the Earth is flat, and others may not. But if we take what each and every one of these individuals factually observed, an image of what shape the earth actually is starts to surface.

Here is what the observer in India would see:


To save space and time I won't include pictures from every location, but by using Google Earth and your own intuition you can infer the same thing I did while writing this, that the Earth is indeed spherical.

[James Hutchins]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

A lot of unsupported guesses you have there. Guesses in school would get you a failing grade. As you do here. Sorry.

Why hust you spherical Earthers hate God so much? Why do you expend so much effort to come up with these wild falsehoods and hollow ideas to cast doubt on Him?

[HumbleHuman]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

There are no unsupported guesses what-so-ever, and I defy you to point out a 'guess' that I have made that has not yet been proved.

You claim I have made wild falsehoods, please, tell me where in my argument I have made an error. Please do not attack my final conclusion without attacking how I brought myself to that conclusion. Please do not use Bible verses to attempt to disprove me, because it is not a question of what the Bible says, it is a question of what mine and your eyes observe. God created this Universe. God created our minds with an incredible capacity for critical thinking. Doesn't God want us to use this gift he so graciously granted us?

Why hust you spherical Earthers hate God so much? Why do you expend so much effort to come up with these wild falsehoods and hollow ideas to cast doubt on Him?

Where do I claim I hate God? Where did I even say a word about God in my original post? The error you make in this discussion is assuming it has anything to do with God. Can't you use your own eyes and mind to discover something, without having first to check to see if it's okay with God? Isn't God okay with you making simple observations, or does He want you to forever live with a veil over your eyes?

You've quoted the bible verse where "four corners of the earth" is stated.. yet you acknowledge that the earth is circular (in two dimensions, not three, unfortunately) But simple geometry proves that circles don't have corners... so isn't your belief in direct contradiction with God's teaching? So would I rightly ask you why you hate God and shed doubt on Him? No, that would be absurd. You've observed that the Earth is circular, that is a fact. It is also a fact that the Earth doesn't have four corners, only two Poles.

Please, tell me where I am wrong in my argument.

[Cranky Old Man]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

You claim I have made wild falsehoods, please, tell me where in my argument I have made an error.

Whoa, we don't have all day to help you with your homework here. If you want to know what you did wrong just look it up in the Holy Bible. Everything you said that is not in the Bible is wrong.

[HumbleHuman]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Haha, no, that's fine, I don't need help with my homework... I already did my reading for my Fictional Literature course, but thanks!

Everything you said that is not in the Bible is wrong.

If I were to say that humans need to eat to survive, would that be wrong?
How about if I said that Duck-billed Platypus' exist? Or that the Taj Mahal is located in India? Those are all factual but not contained in the Bible. Does that make them false?
Or how about this, what if I were to say that I can walk on water? Walking on water is discussed in the Bible, does that mean that I can do it? You'll say "No, you are not the messiah" Then can you explain this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3St1GgoHQ

You have done nothing to prove me wrong. I guess I am somewhat naive for thinking you would accept my point at face value, not just instantly dismiss it. How can you know you're correct if you aren't willing to give an opposing viewpoint some thought, like I have done to yours?

[James Hutchins]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

There are no unsupported guesses what-so-ever, and I defy you to point out a 'guess' that I have made that has not yet been proved.

Son, you have no proofs, just wild eyed claims like those of a drunk and the beauty of a bar girl at 2am.

You claim I have made wild falsehoods, please, tell me where in my argument I have made an error. Please do not attack my final conclusion without attacking how I brought myself to that conclusion. Please do not use Bible verses to attempt to disprove me, because it is not a question of what the Bible says, it is a question of what mine and your eyes observe. God created this Universe. God created our minds with an incredible capacity for critical thinking. Doesn't God want us to use this gift he so graciously granted us?

Everything you stated, none of it is backed up with Biblical proofs, or even secular proof. Keep in mind, a theory is not a proof.
Of course God wants us to use our minds, He gave us free will didn't He? He also explained in painstaking detail, all of the big unexplainable (meaning mortal man cannot categorically prove it) things in His universe.

Why hust you spherical Earthers hate God so much? Why do you expend so much effort to come up with these wild falsehoods and hollow ideas to cast doubt on Him?

Where do I claim I hate God? Where did I even say a word about God in my original post? The error you make in this discussion is assuming it has anything to do with God. Can't you use your own eyes and mind to discover something, without having first to check to see if it's okay with God? Isn't God okay with you making simple observations, or does He want you to forever live with a veil over your eyes?

You do not believe in Gods own words, so you do not believe inhim. Simple.

You've quoted the bible verse where "four corners of the earth" is stated.. yet you acknowledge that the earth is circular (in two dimensions, not three, unfortunately) But simple geometry proves that circles don't have corners... so isn't your belief in direct contradiction with God's teaching? So would I rightly ask you why you hate God and shed doubt on Him? No, that would be absurd. You've observed that the Earth is circular, that is a fact. It is also a fact that the Earth doesn't have four corners, only two Poles.

Child, had you read the thread, you'd know that the four corners are East, North, West and South. The flat Earth is pretty round, certainly not 100%, but round enough for discussions sake. It is not however, round like a baseball. A key point you fail to realize is that any line, be it perfectly straight, way or a circle, is made up from a point, these points all have a top, side and bottom, A point is 100% angle and therefore a corner.
The Earth has depth of course, or else the soils of the plains would fall in to the Devils fires below.

Please, tell me where I am wrong in my argument.

I pretty much took your pack of lies and shredded them.

[James Hutchins]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Haha, no, that's fine, I don't need help with my homework... I already did my reading for my real Literature course, but thanks!



If I were to say that humans need to eat to survive, would that be wrong?
How about if I said that Duck-billed Platypus' exist? Or that the Taj Mahal is located in India? Those are all factual but not contained in the Bible. Does that make them false?
Or how about this, what if I were to say that I can walk on water? Walking on water is discussed in the Bible, does that mean that I can do it? You'll say "No, you are not the messiah" Then can you explain this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3St1GgoHQ

You have done nothing to prove me wrong. I guess I am somewhat naive for thinking you would accept my point at face value, not just instantly dismiss it. How can you know you're correct if you aren't willing to give an opposing viewpoint some thought, like I have done to yours?

Walking on water has been observed many times. I have seen it myself done by regular people, walking in the footsteps of Jesus.

[HumbleHuman]

Re: 3 Experiments You Can Do At Home that PROVE THE EARTH IS FLAT

Everything you stated, none of it is backed up with Biblical proofs, or even secular proof. Keep in mind, a theory is not a proof.
Of course God wants us to use our minds, He gave us free will didn't He? He also explained in painstaking detail, all of the big unexplainable (meaning mortal man cannot categorically prove it) things in His universe.

No, what I said is not supported in the Bible, that is true. I think that if you consider the medium in which we are having this discussion you can acknowledge that we know a lot today that we did not know when the Bible was written. Therefore, there are truths about the physical world that are not contained within it's pages, simply because the humans who wrote the book did not have access to these truths. If the Bible were written today the people who write it would be able to include and explain the phenomena which we are discussing here today. To say, however, that what I said is not supported in secular evidence is categorically incorrect, and you know that it is.

You say call it 'painstaking detail', I call it vague and inaccurate references to concepts now that are now known in painstaking detail. Painstaking detail which is never good enough for you.

There are still things that are big and relatively unexplainable in this Universe, but the size and shape of the Earth is certainly not one of them, and I hope you do acknowledge that 99% of the world would think it insane for you to believe the Earth is flat.

You do not believe in Gods own words, so you do not believe inhim. Simple.

Let me clarify my position on that. I do not believe in the Christian God, nor any of the Hindu Gods, nor do I believe in Thor or Zeus or Zarathustra. I believe His "words" exist, but they are words written by humans written many decades of years after Jesus died. Only one author in the Bible actually knew Jesus. The rest of the stories in the Bible were written by people who learned of the stories from their friends and family, who learned of the stories from their friends and family, etc. etc. They essentially played a grand game of telephone two thousand years ago, and you people are looking at those words as fact. I mean, come on, is that not a tad bit ridiculous?

But whether or not I actually believe the words in the Bible is irrelevant to this argument. In my argument I did not claim that anything in the Bible is wrong. My argument is no more contradictory to the "four corners" argument than is yours in that both of our models of the earth have a North, South, East, and West.

Child, had you read the thread, you'd know that the four corners are East, North, West and South. The flat Earth is pretty round, certainly not 100%, but round enough for discussions sake.

I have read the thread, and NSEW does not provide 'corners' for this round Earth, it simply provides four points to inscribe a square into the circle. They are no more corners than your belly button is the corner of your torso.

It is not however, round like a baseball. A key point you fail to realize is that any line, be it perfectly straight, way or a circle, is made up from a point, these points all have a top, side and bottom, A point is 100% angle and therefore a corner.
The Earth has depth of course, or else the soils of the plains would fall in to the Devils fires below.

This, is what I was waiting for. A geometric argument. Lines and Curves are both made up of points. Certainly true. However, points in geometry do not have tops, sides, or bottoms. Geometric points are one dimensional and posses no height width or depth, they are simply a macroscopic representation of a finite location in space. 100% angle. That literally means nothing. At all. I don't know if you mean to say a 90* angle, or a 180* angle. A 90* angle is indeed a corner, but there are no 90* angles on a circle. A 180* angle is a straight line, and a 180* angle on any of the four points that coincide with compass directions would be either be tangential, orthogonal, or a secant to the circle. None of that proves anything. It's nonsense. Because a circle is comprised entirely of points that can be represented in a Euclidean plane, by your logic every point on the circle is a corner.

If you could clarify what you meant by 100% angle I think we could really get somewhere.

I pretty much took your pack of lies and shredded them.

I pretty much took your color-by-numbers crayon drawing and folded it up neatly and placed it in your backpack for you to take home and give it to your mother to hang on your refrigerator.