[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

No, it's not totally a whale. But it is a first step on a long way from a land based mammal to a whale. That actually IS evolution.
One, further on the way to the whale is the: Basilosaurus.

That's just a painting. Look, anyone can draw anything, but that doesn't make it real.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

No, it's not totally a whale. But it is a first step on a long way from a land based mammal to a whale. That actually IS evolution.
One, further on the way to the whale is the: Basilosaurus.

Wow!

A painting.

This is truly fascinating watching how things people speak with authority about and then write them down in books become an alternative belief system for those determined to supplant the word of God so they can have as much anal sex as they want.

If you want to see something truly ridiculous take a look at this supposed whale skeleton "unearthed" in the Egyptian desert. Yes, that's a whale swimming in the desert, folks. And check out it's ickle back legs. Yes, that's right, this supposed whale has tiny back legs that are no use to anything of its size and we're supposed to believe the scientists haven't just put them there from some smaller animal.

Like God would create something with tiny back legs sticking out of it that swims in the sea like a whale! What will they expect us to accept next?

[loco73]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2010/...ds-with-teeth/


The grass-grazing Greylag Goose gapes, speechless, at your pathetic
grasp of the natural sciences and apparent inability to research anything
before making a greater ass of your ignorant self.

Really? Fossilization takes a long time?

http://www.bibleistrue.com/qna/pqna15.htm

Something which looks like teeth ARE NOT NECESSARILY teeth. Teeth need enamel and are anchored in the gums. Birds do not have teeth, but some spikes st the beak. So I explained, what real teeth are.

And something, which seems to be fossilized is not necessarily a fossil. Mummies are not fossils. Fossilization always substitutes the chalk inside a bone by silicondioxide. THAT and only THAT is a fossil. None of that applys to your examples. So, fossilization really needs a long time.

[loco73]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

That's just a painting. Look, anyone can draw anything, but that doesn't make it real.

These animal are extinct. Sure, that all images are paintings.

And by the way....whales till today still have a pelvic bone. So, God created some nonsense....... A part, which the animal doesn't need.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Something which looks like teeth ARE NOT NECESSARILY teeth. Teeth need enamel and are anchored in the gums. Birds do not have teeth, but some spikes st the beak. So I explained, what real teeth are.

And something, which seems to be fossilized is not necessarily a fossil. Mummies are not fossils. Fossilization always substitutes the chalk inside a bone by silicondioxide. THAT and only THAT is a fossil. None of that applys to your examples. So, fossilization really needs a long time.

Look, friend, we're not actually logging in here to be "educated" by you. You have only the slenderest grasp of life sciences and it's embarrassing for you to think you can school us.

That aside, we're here to praise Jesus for temporarily dying for us after oh-too-briefly imparting His wisdom and to follow God's word and marvel at the wonder of His six-day creation. Your persistent heresy is not going to persuade anyone with faith to follow your path to damnation so all you are doing is pointlessly flapping your gums and giving us some delightful pieces of rather weak Darwinism to scoff at. But do continue to weaken your position by wasting your time strengthening our faith.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

These animal are extinct.

Or never existed.

Sure, that all images are paintings.

sigh

And by the way....whales till today still have a pelvic bone. So, God created some nonsense....... A part, which the animal doesn't need.

Clearly whales do need that pelvic bone because God doesn't make junk!

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Something which looks like teeth ARE NOT NECESSARILY teeth. Teeth need enamel and are anchored in the gums. Birds do not have teeth, but some spikes st the beak. So I explained, what real teeth are.

Way to raise the bar, Sparky.

"Birds don't have teeth".

Birds with teeth shown.

"Birds don't have teeth by my particular definition of teeth, which doesn't include the teeth these birds have."

That's called raising the bar.

But here, have some chickens with teeth.

Scientists have grown chicken embryos with teeth which may lead to a breakthrough against baldness.

The experiment suggests that a gene that causes teeth or hair growth, inactive in birds for 70 million years, could also be rekindled in humans in the future.

The team of French and British researchers released their findings in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Cells were transplanted from mice into the chicken embryos -- called chimeras.

"Basically, this tells you that the bird still has the genetic information required to initiate tooth development, if their are cells capable of responding to it," Professor Sharpe, from King's College, London, told The Times newspaper Wednesday.

And something, which seems to be fossilized is not necessarily a fossil. Mummies are not fossils.

I didn't say they were. For that matter, they don't even seem to be fossilized. They are dehydrated.

I gave you the example of 300-year-old wood pilings that have become petrified--that is, fossilized. Petrification IS fossilization:

http://www.fossilmuseum.net/fossilre...#petrification
Petrification
Petrification is a geology term denoting the processes by which organic material is converted into stone or a similar substance. It is approximately synonymous with fossilization. Petrified wood is the most well known result of this process. Petrification takes place in two related ways, replacement and permineralization, described below.

Replacement
Replacement takes place when water dissolves the original hard parts and replaces them with mineral matter. This chemical action may take place slowly, reproducing the microscopic structures of the original organism. Bone, shells and wood are often well preserved in this manner. The most common replacement minerals are calcite, silica, pyrite and hematite. The snails of the Green River Formation in Wyoming are often replaced by silica, a variation of quartz. The ammonites and goniatites of Europe and North Africa are commonly replaced by hematite, which is an iron mineral similar to, but more stable than pyrite. When the original hard parts are replaced quickly they often loose all trace of their original structure, leaving the original shape, but no detail. Agatized woods are often preserved in this manner, (agate is a form of quartz).

Perimineralization
Permineralization takes place when ground water carrying dissolved minerals infiltrates the microscopic pores and cavities in bone, wood or shell. The minerals being deposited produce stony fossils that still contain a good deal of their original solid material. Bones, teeth and many marine organisms are preserved in this way. The fossil wood from the Petrified Forest of Arizona are a famous example of this type of preservation. The fossil teeth and bones of the Oligocene badlands of South Dakota and Nebraska are also common example of this type of fossilization, as well as the extensive deposits of Jurassic dinosaur bones in Utah and Colorado.

Fossilization always substitutes the chalk inside a bone by silicondioxide. THAT and only THAT is a fossil. None of that applys to your examples. So, fossilization really needs a long time.

Chalk is made of calcium carbonate, and there is calcium carbonate in bones, but there is no chalk in bones.

My chair is made of wood, and there is wood in trees, but there are no chairs in trees. And you're probably too dense to comprehend what I'm saying.

Fossilization occurs by a number of different processes. Look, I'll just use Wikipedia:

Permineralization

A permineralized trilobite, Asaphus kowalewskii


Permineralization occurs after burial, as the empty spaces within an organism (spaces filled with liquid or gas during life) become filled with mineral-rich groundwater and the minerals precipitate from the groundwater, thus occupying the empty spaces. This process can occur in very small spaces, such as within the cell wall of a plant cell. Small scale permineralization can produce very detailed fossils. For permineralization to occur, the organism must become covered by sediment soon after death or soon after the initial decaying process. The degree to which the remains are decayed when covered determines the later details of the fossil. Some fossils consist only of skeletal remains or teeth; other fossils contain traces of skin, feathers or even soft tissues. This is a form of diagenesis.

External mold of a bivalve from the Logan Formation, Lower Carboniferous, Ohio



Recrystallized scleractinian coral (aragonite to calcite) from the Jurassic of southern Israel


Casts and molds

In some cases the original remains of the organism have been completely dissolved or otherwise destroyed. When all that is left is an organism-shaped hole in the rock, it is called an external mold. If this hole is later filled with other minerals, it is a cast. An endocast or internal mold is formed when sediments or minerals fill the internal cavity of an organism, such as the inside of a bivalve or snail or the hollow of a skull.
Authigenic mineralisation

This is a special form of cast and mold formation. If the chemistry is right, the organism (or fragment of organism) can act as a nucleus for the precipitation of minerals such as siderite, resulting in a nodule forming around it. If this happens rapidly before significant decay to the organic tissue, very fine three-dimensional morphological detail can be preserved. Nodules from the Carboniferous Mazon Creek fossil beds of Illinois, USA, are among the best documented examples of authigenic mineralisation.
Replacement and recrystallization

Replacement occurs when the shell, bone or other tissue is replaced with another mineral. In some cases mineral replacement of the original shell occurs so gradually and at such fine scales that microstructural features are preserved despite the total loss of original material. A shell is said to be recrystallized when the original skeletal compounds are still present but in a different crystal form, as from aragonite to calcite.
Adpression (compression-impression) fossils

Compression fossils, such as those of fossil ferns, are the result of chemical reduction of the complex organic molecules composing the organism's tissues. In this case the fossil consists of original material, albeit in a geochemically altered state. This chemical change is an expression of diagenesis. Often what remains is a carbonaceous film known as a phytoleim, in which case the fossil is known as a compression. Often, however, the phytoleim is lost and all that remains is an impression of the organism in the rock—an impression fossil. In many cases, however, compressions and impressions occur together. For instance, when the rock is broken open, the phytoleim will often be attached to one part (compression), whereas the counterpart will just be an impression. For this reason, it has proved to convenient to have a combined term for both modes of preservation: adpression.[17]
Bioimmuration


The star-shaped holes (Catellocaula vallata) in this Upper Ordovician bryozoan represent a soft-bodied organism preserved by bioimmuration in the bryozoan skeleton.[18]


Bioimmuration is a type of preservation in which a skeletal organism overgrows or otherwise subsumes another organism, preserving the latter, or an impression of it, within the skeleton.[19] Usually it is a sessile skeletal organism, such as a bryozoan or an oyster, which grows along a substrate, covering other sessile encrusters. Sometimes the bioimmured organism is soft-bodied and is then preserved in negative relief as a kind of external mold. There are also cases where an organism settles on top of a living skeletal organism and grows upwards, preserving the settler in its skeleton. Bioimmuration is known in the fossil record from the Ordovician[20] to the Recent.[19]
To sum up, fossilization processes proceed differently for different kinds of tissues and under different kinds of conditions.

You really need to learn your "science" before trying to teach it to us, Sparky.

[loco73]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Clearly whales do need that pelvic bone because God doesn't make junk!

Yes sure, they have. Look at today's whale skeletons. And pre-historic whales have got a larger pelvic bone.

So, tow possible explanations:

1.) God made the world and gave that pelvic bone to an animal, which does not need that.
2.) Evolution is the best explanation and whales had developed from land-based mammals.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Yes sure, they have. Look at today's whale skeletons. And pre-historic whales have got a larger pelvic bone.

So, tow possible explanations:

1.) God made the world and gave that pelvic bone to an animal, which does not need that.
2.) Evolution is the best explanation and whales had developed from land-based mammals.

Friend,

you forgot one

3.) Atheists acting under Satan's instructions faked the proto-whale fossil in a factory in China.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Yes sure, they have. Look at today's whale skeletons. And pre-historic whales have got a larger pelvic bone.

So, tow possible explanations:

1.) God made the world and gave that pelvic bone to an animal, which does not need that.
2.) Evolution is the best explanation and whales had developed from land-based mammals.

Why have you ignored the ridiculous whale with tiny feet I posted as direct evidence of science's stupidity? Are you afraid of certain evidence?

[loco73]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Friend,

you forgot one

3.) Atheists acting under Satan's instructions faked the proto-whale fossil in a factory in China.

What a good feeling to know, that all the scientific world today is mutually testing their results and that fakes are easily discovered as all the world is watching, when someone publishes a new fossil in a scientific paper.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

Yes sure, they have. Look at today's whale skeletons. And pre-historic whales have got a larger pelvic bone.

So, tow possible explanations:

1.) God made the world and gave that pelvic bone to an animal, which does not need that.
2.) Evolution is the best explanation and whales had developed from land-based mammals.

What you fail to recognize is that Christians accept microevolution, or evolution within a species.

Many of us have dogs, and have seen variation firsthand.

And what you're talking about, a whale being a land animal which eventually no longer needs legs, well that's microevolution.

Macroevolution is from one species to another. It's saying that a single-celled organism "evolved" into fish which evolved into a dinosaur which evolved into a bird. That's just silly.

[Noah Sole]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

What a good feeling to know, that all the scientific world today is mutually testing their results and that fakes are easily discovered as all the world is watching, when someone publishes a new fossil in a scientific paper.

Friend it is easy to fake a fossil:



However a real one is easy to spot - look at this, clearly showing that dinosaurs and humans existed side by side before the dinosaurs were all drowned in the Flood.



All the best

[loco73]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

And what you're talking about, a whale being a land animal which eventually no longer needs legs, well that's microevolution.

But it's a different species. The Basilosaurus cetoides and the Ambulocetus natans are different species.
You must compare ALL data:
Ambulocetus - Kutchicetus - Rodhocetus - Protocetus - Basilosaurus + Dorudon - Squalodon - Cetotherium - today's whales

ok?

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Christian Faith Requires Accepting Evolution

But it's a different species. The Basilosaurus cetoides and the Ambulocetus natans are different species.
You must compare ALL data:
Ambulocetus - Kutchicetus - Rodhocetus - Protocetus - Basilosaurus + Dorudon - Squalodon - Cetotherium - today's whales

ok?

So why would God create a thirty foot whale with little tiny legs sticking out of it? Explain that one. It's just not going to happen.

So what's the most likely explanation? I call shenanigans.