[Nobar King]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

We write in proper American here at Landover:

Fewer wiccans and heathens in heaven sounds all good to me.

BTW, there aren't any wiccans or heathens in heaven.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

And where did I say it was??? I was just stating a trend I am noticing. The actual percent of people that god is accepting into heaven by your standards are abysmal, I hope you know this. Why would a passionate god allow the majority of his people to burn, even when most of them still do revere him. (christianity is the only true path to finding jesus and everlasting happiness, right? )

One reason why God sends so many people to hell is to make those of us who are going to Heaven appreciate His glory that much more:

Romans 9:22-24: [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[Max Bayes]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Good point Nobar, thanks for pointing it out!

[Ceede Narve]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Guess who's back, nice to see everyone else again, took a hiatus. Now I'm here to do some congratulating on everyone's part, you keep up with a heathen wiccan's birthday well. And i might add that I read some really good forum posts from you guys, and some I can agree with. Common ground. ABORTION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL! DON'T DRESS UP FOR SAMHAIN (or as you call it "devil's birthday") ohh and by the way, you need to try and get that poser group "Westboro Baptist Church" off the internet and disbanded, they're giving you guys a worse name than you already have.

[Sylvester]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Hey guys,

I'd like to give an opinion on this, if I may? When I was 14, I joined an Elim Pentecostal church and accepted Jesus into my life, but by my early twenties, I found a lot of things weren't adding up for me and so embarked upon a spiritual quest, as it were. When reading up on some religious history, I stumbled upon paganism. Before those times, I always thought pagans were those goofy kids that played roll playing games and spent most of their adolescent life squeezing zits. Truth be told, many of them today often are ;-) However, for those who don't follow Wicca simply "to be different" and for those who actually learn about what paganism truly is, it's actually a way of life than a religion.

Now, I'm not saying any of this to mock anyone here. As I said, I used to be a Christian. The fact is, much of Christianity comes from Paganism. For example, Christians celebrate Christmas as the birthday of Jesus Christ, while Pagans celebrate the 21st of December as the Winter Solstice. A very important time of year. The Christmas tree, giving of presents, decorations etc, are all from pre-Christianity from the time of the original Pagans. The same can be said of Easter. At that time of year, we have Beltane and Ostara (like Easter, see?). This is the time when there is much renewal of life, which we consider resurrected or reborn... Again, a similar concept. The other time of the year, Samhain (or Hallowe'en) Christians believe is evil, which is a misconception. It is simply the time when things die and the harvest is due. It has nothing to do with demons, Satan, or any thing remotely similar, as Pagans do not believe in such things (or real ones don't, anyway). People of old, who weren't Pagan, simply thought that "the time when things die" sounded evil. The list of such similarities or misconceptions is extremely high. For example, real Pagans would not cause harm, so the idea of an evil witch isn't possible. Likewise, the term witch actually means wise one or crone, whom were wisened old ladies who knew what herbs cured what illnesses and all about signs in nature that foretell of things such as bad weather. These are all things we would consider science today, but people were superstitious years past, so it was common for blame to be placed upon people whom others feared or misunderstood.

If you compare the true beliefs of old Pagans to science today, there are several truths.

1. What you give out you get back in return: This has been changed in recent years to "what you give out you receive three fold", but I don't believe this holds much water. However, this is akin to "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". The law in physics is the same for the law of social interaction, because both require energy. If positive is given out, positive will be returned. If negative is given out, negative is returned. Or, put simply, what goes around comes around.

2. Pagans believe in the Universal Consiousness. This is an idea that everything is made up of energy, and if everything is energy, then we are all linked to everyone and everything. Every person on this planet are my brothers and sisters, but I am also them and they are me. When we die, our energy rejoins the energy of the universe, which in its grossest form, usually means we become food for bugs ;-) This concept is a scientific belief, today. String theory relies on this (even if yet to be proven). Also, Pagans believe that, as all things are energy, we can control or have contact with the universe through our own energy. This includes such things as astral projection and telepathy. Now, I don't know if this is true, but stranger things happen. Who am I to judge? It certainly sounds plausible and you could understand how such an idea can come about. Also, it's certainly not magic, but very much a scientific idea (and one many scientists are still trying to prove, today).

3. The idea of magic in Pagan belief is contorted by modern religions. Magic isn't magic as one would believe, as Pagans do not believe in magic. They believe in affecting the greater universe with the act of directed intent. Christians do this with prayer and Pagans will often do the same. However, they'll often use physical artifacts that represent what they pray for (if for peace, it may be a white ribbon or candle). There is nothing else different in it. Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and others have long known that concentrated thought can enact action, especially when performed collectively. What's more, it works! Billy Graham can attest to that ;-)

Now, my point here is that, while people in this thread are battling over what is real, false and downright evil, my belief is that evil is an action and that everyone is capable of it. If you intend to do harm to someone or something, then you are a sinner. No religion can make otherwise. However, it's not who you believe in or what rules you follow but the way you live your life that will make a difference to you and everyone else around you. That's a fact and one we must all follow. Pagans by default are peaceful, as their one rule states that they may do anything they like so long as it does no harm to another. As there is no worshipping of deities (before you say it, the Green Man and the Goddess are symbolic representations of the world and universe around us, not real deities by any means. Much like a white ribbon would be symbolic of peace), then Paganism isn't a religion, and if Paganism isn't a religion, then one could conceivably be Pagan and Christian at the same time (though they usually aren't, as Pagans consider Christians to be too violent... That's a general consensus, not my belief).

Something else I'd like to say; most Christians become Christians through fear and they will remain as such for the same reason. Now, if Jesus and God do exist, and I'm certainly not one to make a claim in either direction, wouldn't they (or he if you believe in the trinity) prefer to accept someone who follows them because they want to, not because they fear to do otherwise? One good trait in a real Pagan is that they choose the "way of life" because it is of benefit to others, not themselves. To be a Pagan means to support life, protect it and to honour it. It is totally selfless. Can the same be said for the right of passage to Christianity? Maybe it can, but I believe that is down to the individual.

So, whatever you believe in, make sure you do it for the right reasons.

Oh, and Sister Maria (or whatever you're called), you really aren't very charitable for a Christian. You should be more accepting of others, especially when they are defending what they believe and not attacking in any way. That is what the Christian bible teaches, is it not?

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Sylvester, I understand why you might've fallen into Satanism. Pentecostals are not Christians! They are just as hellbound as any witch coven. Perhaps if you were brought up in a True Christian(tm) environment with a stern father who would lecture you and punish you accordingly, then perhaps you wouldn't have become an apostate.

You really should be more open-minded to what we have to say here. Believe me, Landover Baptist Church is truly the one true church. And I say this as a man who led his own ministry for decades, but once I discovered this church, I disbanded my old church and signed on to become a pastor here.

[Sylvester]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

You sound very much like my Latter Day Saint friends. A good friend of mine happens to be the regional President of the South West of England and he'll talk to you all day about how his church is the "One true church" and about what heavenly father has in store for me. What I like about them, though, is that you don't need to be a mormon to go to heaven ;-) I get to the first rung of heaven simply for having friends in the church... That's quite a deal should I find out I really have made a mistake!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

You sound very much like my Latter Day Saint friends. A good friend of mine happens to be the regional President of the South West of England and he'll talk to you all day about how his church is the "One true church" and about what heavenly father has in store for me. What I like about them, though, is that you don't need to be a mormon to go to heaven ;-) I get to the first rung of heaven simply for having friends in the church... That's quite a deal should I find out I really have made a mistake!

I am sorry friend, please point out were we claim Jesus and Satan are brothers, God lives on the planet Kobold and Battlestar Galatica is a history and not fiction.

Your Mormon friend is lying; there are no "rungs to heaven" * you either accept Jesus as your savior and become one of His chosen elect or your are damn to hell for eternal torment as a sinner. Like it or not that is what The Bible says.

* He is lying to you you about that too; what he means a place for you on the planet God will give him once he dies. Presumable as a slave or something.

[Ceede Narve]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

It is no use feeding these guys any information for they spit it back with a witty opinionated remark. Some know what they are talking about even. But you'll find that they think they are right. Like all other religion, its a matter of "I'm right, you're wrong, f***ing deal with it." So don't waste your time or energy on these mongrels.

[Sylvester]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

The thing is, I talk to people of all religions, and it seems to me, the most stubborn are Christians and Muslims. I don't mean stubborn as in they support their religion regardless of slander, because I wouldn't slander and I approve of supporting ones beliefs. Where the stubbornness lies is with not bending at all. How can one Christian church say they are the true church and all other Christians are going to hell? It makes no sense. Fact is, everyone is wrong, me included. For one to say they are right and everyone else wrong is arrogance in the extreme. Mankind only has a slight grasp on the truth because social conditioning gives us false preconceptions that tarnish any other thought we might have. Man invents a greater universe through belief and idealisms, but there is no fact in those belief's beyond what can be proven with contained tests in controlled environments. Everything else can merely be speculation and guess.

You follow Gods written word in the form of the Bible? Did God get out his typewriter and write it himself? What about the fact that the pieces of the Bible are around 200 times as big as the King James edition? The version of the Bible you so adoringly follow was compiled by the Catholic church, with all other writings kept by them in vaults. You aren't following the word of God, you follow the doctorings of a group of Christians you don't even believe will go to heaven. They hold all the cards, yet you think you're above them! What idiocy is that?!?

My 5 cents; believe all you want, but it is the closed minded and the stubborn that will miss out the most.

Finally, I'll leave you to work this out. There are around 76% Christian denominations in America and in the American prisons, there are 76% Christian inmates. This makes sense, as you'd expect like for like. However, there are 2.5% of atheists in American prisons with 15% throughout the entire American population. Conclusion? Those who have a mind of their own, are good people and commit less crime are the athiests.

If God exists, what do you think he'd be feeling right now? That he'll punish the good who take no sides and choose not to fight in evil wars or that he'll punish the arrogant who slander everyone not like themselves and choose to kill those who do not believe like they do? Do you think this God would believe those followers of his were 'just' because they were scared of him and followed for those reasons alone, or do you think he'd prefer the company of those that protected the world and cared for his creations out of kindness and good nature?

If there is a hell, it'll be like the prison system. Christians totalling 76% inside and 76% outside, while aethiests stand as 2.5% in and 15% out :-)

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

How can one Christian church say they are the true church and all other Christians are going to hell?

Quite simply because they going to hell.

Matthew 7:13 warns us
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:15 tells us to
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Not many will make it into Heaven.

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

You follow Gods written word in the form of the Bible? Did God get out his typewriter and write it himself?

He might as well have. Every prophecy in the Old Testament came to pass with the coming and temporary death of Jesus.

What about the fact that the pieces of the Bible are around 200 times as big as the King James edition?

200 times???

You have lost any and all credibility here.

The version of the Bible you so adoringly follow was compiled by the Catholic church, with all other writings kept by them in vaults. You aren't following the word of God, you follow the doctorings of a group of Christians you don't even believe will go to heaven. They hold all the cards, yet you think you're above them! What idiocy is that?!?

It was not collected by the catlicks. It was collected by the eastern Church who were Arian.

My 5 cents; believe all you want, but it is the closed minded and the stubborn that will miss out the most.

Thank you for stopping by to attempt to force your ignorant unsaved opinion on us.

Finally, I'll leave you to work this out. There are around 76% Christian denominations in America and in the American prisons, there are 76% Christian inmates.

How shocking in a country that calls itself 86% Christian!

This makes sense, as you'd expect like for like. However, there are 2.5% of atheists in American prisons with 15% throughout the entire American population. Conclusion? Those who have a mind of their own, are good people and commit less crime are the athiests.

This just proves the old axiom that there are no atheists in foxholes. How many of these reporting themselves as Christian now went to prison as atheists?

If God exists, what do you think he'd be feeling right now?

I can tell you that God does exist and he is very very angry at reading your lies, ignorance and blasphemy.

[Sylvester]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Yes, 76%. You are a dying breed, it seems.

For information on your bible, see here. Strange that you should follow a bible written by a made up Christian denomination that existed only so that King Henry VIII could get divorced.

As for 200 times the amount of text, absolutely. The Catholics own a library that is extremely vast. Much of the texts are from varying periods throughout the Christian history but have not been included for reasons known only to them. I do take back my comment about the bible being compiled by Catholics as that's not a fully true statement. Fact is, the bible has been slowly compiled by numerous groups over a couple of thousand years (about c220 to around 500 years ago). The Catholics played a huge part in the shaping of the bible in the latter days (including removing texts) and, yes, they do now possess most of the texts pertaining to Christian history.

As for forcing my unsaved opinion, I am not. I wouldn't force any opinion. You're all free to live your lives as you see fit. I was merely aiming to open minds. Any Christian choosing to close themselves off from further knowledge is a poor Christian indeed, for their choices are not educated. If you choose to be Christian and tell everyone they're wrong, at least have the knowledge to back it up. Saying "I know it's true because God tells me so" just doesn't cut it.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

[...] For information on your bible, see here. Strange that you should follow a bible written by a made up Christian denomination that existed only so that King Henry VIII could get divorced.[...]

I'l leave others to correct the rest of your incense-induced ramblings but I cannot for the life of me see the connection between Henry VIII and James I (&VI). Henry was long dead in 1611.

King James received Godly inspiration to write the correct version of God's Word. It really doesn't matter what the Hebrew, Greek, or papists said. KJV1611 is Perfect.

Landover Baptist Faith and Message statement
"The Holy Bible, KJV1611, was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.”

[Levi Jones]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

Yes, 76%. You are a dying breed, it seems.

For information on your bible, see here.

86% is a dying breed? I can see you must have been a member of the Princeton debate team.
Fewer people identify with a specific denomination.

Strange that you should follow a bible written by a made up Christian denomination that existed only so that King Henry VIII could get divorced.

It was part of a larger movement of extremely brave men who risked life and limb to get the Truth out to people in the face of the Inquisition.

It was the Catholic pope Innocent III who banned "unauthorized" versions (see Bibles translated into vernacular) of the Bible. The catlicks had been terrified for years the commoners might learn to read for themselves and realize that Rome is the whore of Babylon.

As for 200 times the amount of text, absolutely. The Catholics own a library that is extremely vast. Much of the texts are from varying periods throughout the Christian history but have not been included for reasons known only to them. I do take back my comment about the bible being compiled by Catholics as that's not a fully true statement. Fact is, the bible has been slowly compiled by numerous groups over a couple of thousand years (about c220 to around 500 years ago). The Catholics played a huge part in the shaping of the bible in the latter days (including removing texts) and, yes, they do now possess most of the texts pertaining to Christian history.

Yes, yes the catlicks have some very interesting works of fiction like ignatius, clement, polycarp and etc., that they wrote 300 years after they claimed they were penned to prove that they were right all along.

Let me ask you one question. Do even the catlicks consider those books to be Scripture?

As for forcing my unsaved opinion, I am not. I wouldn't force any opinion. You're all free to live your lives as you see fit.

You're calling us stubborn and close minded and attempting to engage us in debate, but no you aren't trying to force your unsaved opinions on us.

[Sylvester]

Re: Why Wicca is nonsense

You're calling us stubborn and close minded and attempting to engage us in debate, but no you aren't trying to force your unsaved opinions on us.

I'd never ask you to change faith, merely to be prepared for the day that some things you consider truth to be questionable, whatever those things might be. It is the only true way to salvation. God would have given you free will to think for yourself, not to be a complete clone of your brethren. That is all I am trying to do. If you want to be a Christian, be the best Christian you can be, but know that to do so is to reason for yourself, not allow others to do it for you. You'll see that denominations mean little, then, for every follower would be a denomination unto themselves, and all would see that just believing is enough.