[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The holy spirit is god's active force.
Additional: Of course we believe in Jehovah's Holy Spirit. It is one of the most important things involving worship to Jehovah. His active force is there for us all of the time as long as we are willing to ask for it.

Was it available to Moses?

[Mistress Cookie]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I mean, how do you explain that Jesus is sitting at God's right hand in heaven if Jesus is God?

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
.

Jesus/God™ can do anything, so it makes perfect sense He could take off His right hand, lay it down, and then sit on/by it.

What's so hard to understand?
.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

What's so hard to understand?
.

Your delusions.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Your delusions.

No, your delusions!

Ha. Jesus wins again.

YIC

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

This is why I always have a loaded gun near my door in case these Jehovah Witnesses make the fatal mistake of visiting my house.

Indeed Brother Cranky, this is one of the few times I'm inclined to agree with our gaffe prone Vice President Joe Biden about discharging a shotgun through the door - particularly when our faith may be in peril.

In all farness, I do post warning signs on my property and I advise all True Christians™ to do the same.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Indeed Brother Cranky, this is one of the few times I'm inclined to agree with our gaffe prone Vice President Joe Biden about discharging a shotgun through the door - particularly when our faith may be in peril.

In all farness, I do post warning signs on my property and I advise all True Christians™ to do the same.

[ATTACH]20849[/ATTACH]

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.



You need to learn to be more humble like I am.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

1 Pet 2:20a For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently?

You need to stop being a martyr.

[Brother D. Thomas]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jesus is God, period!

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)

In this godly passage, to whom is it talking about? Correct, JESUS! Therefore, Jesus is God, 2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and true Christians accept that Jesus is God, and anyone that doesn't is a fool and will swim in the sulfur lakes of Hell upon their timely demise!

To vouchsafe the above biblical factoid, we have God's inspired word stating; “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” ( Proverbs 30:5-6 ) Every word of God is pure, as in 1 Timothy 3:16. Get it?

As if we're going to listen to a Satanic Hell bound JW in the first place, HA!

Case closed.

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Churchoid interpretation:

Jesus never died (He and the Bible lied); he changed back into a spirit ('immortal soul', remember?) preaching to demons screaming in 'Hellfire' for 3 days, then re-entered his corpse



Do you have scripture to back that up?

Jesus had to defeat the power of death, the same that accused Adam, and that caused the deception to Adam and Eve, that caused sin to be instilled, that cursed with disease and later death and for some second death, all these angels of death, these Jesus had to engage in combat by dying as a man, but living over him, them, as Son of God.

As Jesus died, death left everyone else to come upon Jesus:

Mat 27:50 And crying again with a loud voice, Jesus released His spirit.
Mat 27:51 And, behold! The veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. And the earth quaked, and the rocks were sheared,
Mat 27:52 and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep arose,
Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tomb after His resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Mat 27:54 But the centurion and those guarding Jesus, seeing the earthquake, and the things that took place, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this One was Son of God. MKJV

They, Satan, tried to cause Jesus to sin and die, so they could obtain their goal since ancient times, to take His might:

1Co 15:53 for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
1Co 15:54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up--to victory;
1Co 15:55 where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
1Co 15:56 and the sting of the death is the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
1Co 15:57 and to God--thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ; MKJV

Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent his son to them, saying, They will respect my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and get hold of his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And taking him, they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. MKJV

Satan said I will be greater than God, I will be God:

Isa 14:10 All of them shall speak and say to you, Are you also as weak as we? Are you like us?
Isa 14:11 Your pride is brought down to the grave, and the noise of your harps. The maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.
Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
Isa 14:14 I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the Pit.
Isa 14:16 Those who see you shall stare and closely watch you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth to tremble; who shook kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 who made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed its cities; who did not open the house for his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But you are cast out of your grave like a hateful branch, and like the clothing of those who are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; like a dead body trampled under foot.
Isa 14:20 You shall not be joined with them in burial, because you ruined your land and killed your people; the seed of evildoers shall never be famous.
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his sons, because of the iniquity of their fathers, so that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, says Jehovah of Hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name and remnant, and son, and grandson, says Jehovah. MKJV Dual meaning, literal and figurative.

Jesus preached life to the dead spirits:

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit;
1Pe 3:19 in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
1Pe 3:20 to disobeying ones, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared (in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water); MKJV

1Pe 4:6 For to this end the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit. MKJV Men are spirits from birth.

As they tried to hold back His light of life:

Jon 2:1 And Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.
Jon 2:3 For You cast me into the depths of the seas, and the current surrounded me. All Your breakers and Your waves passed over me.
Jon 2:4 Then I said, I am cast off from Your eyes, yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.
Jon 2:5 Waters encompassed me, even to the soul; the depth closed around me; the seaweed was bound to my head.
Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was around me forever; yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O Jehovah my God.
Jon 2:7 When my soul fainted within me, I remembered Jehovah; and my prayer came in to You, into Your holy temple.
Jon 2:8 They who take heed to lying vanities forsake their kindness;
Jon 2:9 but I will sacrifice to You with the voice of thanksgiving; I will fulfill that which I have vowed. Salvation belongs to Jehovah!
Jon 2:10 And Jehovah spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah out on the dry land. MKJV

Jesus raised up His own dead body:

Joh 2:18 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, What sign do you show us, since you do these things?
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then the Jews said, This temple was forty-six years building, and will you rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But He spoke of the temple of His body.
Joh 2:22 Therefore when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them, and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said. MKJV


Jesus' tomb is opened and the way from Adamic death even second death, to life is available:

Mat 28:6 He is not here, for He has risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. MKJV

Jesus has the agreement from another person, the Holy Spirit to send Him after Jesus is glorified and in the full know again:

Act 2:1 And in the fulfilling of the day of Pentecost, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly a sound came out of the heaven as borne along by the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And tongues as of fire appeared to them, being distributed; and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance. MKJV

Any spirit that did not engage Jesus in the fight was not defeated. And Satan's kingdom is well ordered:

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard, they said, This one does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation. And every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.
Mat 12:26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 But if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods, unless first he binds the strong one, and then he will plunder his house.
Mat 12:30 The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters. MKJV

I conclude, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. The way for people to live justly, lovingly on God's power and only human abilities.

Joh 14:5 Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You go, and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. MKJV

Jesus is the way from death to life. Dying in the flesh, overcoming in the Spirit, His own. After asking why He was abandoned. Jesus is the truth, the highest reality, the most high, who cannot project a lie or be forced to lie by spirits, and preached into the gloomy dungeons. But Hell not just a place, they could not show themselves mercy. Truth stronger than lies. Jesus is the life, the loving friendship, obedience, that could not be extinguished and is risen over death, and from death gives us life, by His word and Spirit coming into our spirits.

The Father called Jesus from the pit as He did well, and raised Him, Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised Him. John 1, the people people of Israel came by Him into being. By the Trinity. Always together, the create, heal, love, one love and substance. Jesus the great light, source of life...

Last word, the Holy Spirit has a mind and knows God, is a friend like a paracletos Greek, feels grief if we sin... so mind, will, emotions, He is a person, has a soul. He is not just an active force. When He touches us, things change.

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jesus was a success!
Jesus twelve disciples became apostles.
Judas was replaced by Matthew, and there was another in line.
There was also the seventy two.
And the five hundred.
And the three thousand converts in the days shortly after Pentecost.
Peter repeated the actions of Jesus. Healings.
There was the magnificent faith and wisdom and courage of Stephen, a young convert.
Paul converts and becomes and apostle.
Before Paul there were two other names apostles. Adronicus and Junias.
Peter and James were a team, and later Mark is mentioned.
There was Paul and Barnabas.
Philip the evangelist had daughters who would prophesy.
John the apostle had twelve disciples.
John lived to almost one hundred. John saw into Heaven and the last days.
Paul corrects Peter for not eating with gentiles.
Paul had to address the excellent church of Corinth about following greats like Cephas and Apollos...
“Apollos waters”... Paul.
So many had gifts of the Spirit that Paul had to write about orderly practice and jealousy in Corinth, such as in first Corinthians twelve through fourteen.
One of Peter's and Paul's converts later writes further to them. “Clement.”
Timothy rises.
Peter, Paul, John, Mark. Andrew... have successors.
The diaspora of Jews into Rome from persecution in Israel, make converts.
Healing rallies continue into the fifth century.
Peter and Paul die in faith in Rome.
The Roman Christians endure Nero's fierce anti-Christian persecution to death for love of Jesus.
Underground Roman Christians form the beginnings of the mass.
John's disciple Polycarp writes letters and has disciples.
Polycarp endures persecution in love and lives long.
The pope in later years puts together the Bible, preferring the works of the men who were always with Jesus.
The writings of Polycarp and his disciple Irenaus are also kept.
Martin Luther also does not include Polycarp in his Bible. But excludes some Hebrew books.
Starting with Paul and John, the leaders defend and explain the faith in face of errors usually coming from the fringes of the church.
Irenaus explains that the God of the old testament and the new are the same one.
Athanasius explains Christ is fully man and fully God as successor of Mark.
In easier times, the bishops preach to many in Rome and Carthage... Monica prays for her son lost in sexual sin, Augustine.
Augustine listens to the bishops and is converted and become a bishop.
Augustine writes the second most read Christian book after the Bible. City of God. Saving Rome in turmoil from returning to paganism.
Augustine well propounds the belief in the Blessed Three in One in De Trinitate.
By the end of the fifth century, all the different kinds of errors in faith have been addressed by the successors of the apostles.
Sadly, the letters of how Rome could have been governed were never written because of Nero.
Sadly in the eight century, the Roman Catholic church becomes political.
Nevertheless the faith is established and available and on record... people can check with the Bible and with the first five centuries for truth and authenticity, and to find graces.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Blah Blah Blah

So, just a bunch of snippets of scripture taken out of context (especially the Old Testament quotes) twisted to suit your preconceived notions. How sad.

Now notice Colossians 2:10 were Paul tells us that we Christians have this same fullness, an obvious reference to the Holy Spirit. The word used in verse 10 is the Greek word pleroo, "made full," and is the verb form of pleroma, "fullness," in verse 9. Now just because we too have this fullness of deity we cannot claim to be God.
Now that Paul has the risen Christ in mind is clearly proven by the context:

For in him all the FULLNESS (pleroma) of deity dwells bodily
and you have been MADE FULL (pleroo) in him
you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead
He made you alive together with Him

And for this reason, Paul goes on to say we should set our minds on things above:

Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, \where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. (3:1-2).

The facts make it quite clear that Paul has the risen Christ in mind. The facts also make it quite clear that we too have this same fullness. This fullness is partaking of the divine nature as Peter indicates (2 Peter 1:4).

[Bluish]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Hmm
So True Christians are or are not infalliable?
I'm getting mixed answers •~•

[Brother D. Thomas]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Heathen Basher,

Listen up, fool, follow the edicts of your own Satanic JW faith!

"connecting a computer to an electronic bulletin board can open the way to serious spiritual dangers. ......Unless a bulletin board, even one labeled "JW Only," is properly supervised, with its use being limited to those who are mature, faithful servants of Jehovah, it could expose Christian users to "bad associations." (1 Cor. 15:33) The Society has received reports that such so-called private networks have been used not only to speculate regarding spiritual matters but also to give bad advice, spread gossip and false information, plant negative ideas, raise questions and doubts that subvert the faith of some, and disseminate private interpretations of Scripture ......" (Watchtower, August 1, 1993, p17)

Bottom line? You are a Hell bound Jehovah's Witness, and since you're reading this right now, you risk disfellowship from your comical church by going against it's doctrine of not wanting you on the internet!

In simple terms that even a JW can understand, GET LOST!

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

...
Sadly in the eight century, the Roman Catholic church becomes political.
Nevertheless the faith is established and available and on record... people can check with the Bible and with the first five centuries for truth and authenticity, and to find graces.

Um, no. The "church" started contradicting the Bible as early as the 3rd century.

May I ask, for someone so found of the church fathers and early Catholics, why you chose to name yourself after a heretical ancient sect that the Pope had excommunicated? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novatianism

JESUS LEARNED OBEDIENCE BY THE THINGS HE SUFFERED. Heb 5:8

AND HE BECOME OBEDIENT AS FAR AS DEATH. Phil 2:8

If Satan had thought Jesus could not have been tempted to sin he would not have bothered.(Matt 4)

He remained faithful till death. Jesus was the last Adam he had to remain faithful till death to be that ransom sacrifice, he showed that mankind could have kept their integrity regardless of the pressures Satan put to them, so yes he could have failed, but he didn't' and he answered Satan's lies that no one could remain faithful even till death. We also have the example of faithful Job.
1Cor 15:45, 1Cor 15;22, Rom5:14, Job 2:3 James 5:11

Yes Jesus could have lost his everlasting life, this is why it was so special what he gave for us and what the Father allowed him to do for us. How they both love us so much. John 3:16

[Mistress Cookie]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

ME: What's so hard to understand?
YOU (or what used to be you): Your delusions.

Now let me tell you what's not a delusion my fine friend.

Did your new best friends the "Jehova Witlesses" reveal to you they were put in "The Camps" in World War II ALONG WITH known homosexuals, Joos, gypsies, "intellectuals", etc??

FACT.

Why do you want to be associated with a bunch of oven dodgers?

Why do you want to be associated with known homosexuals, Joos, gypsies, "intellectuals", etc??
.