[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I wonder if they've put anything in his air or water? There are powerful agents (ergot) that can be absorbed through the skin and these heretics seem to have been pretty quick workers:

23rd Feb

Hey, so on my recent missionary tour into the unsaved darkness of the greater Des Moines area, I came across two very kind and smartly dressed men. They looked fairly Christian to me, so I struck up a conversation with them, and they were nice enough to offer me a magazine called the Watch Tower.

25th Feb

As Jehovah's witnesses, we etc.

26th Feb

..your horrible LIES and DISTORTIONS
..KJV…inferior
..mainstream Christianity…all wrong!

So that's just 3 days and nights and straight into the wilderness.

Yes, I'm very concerned at such rapid regress. As though he'd started reading The Screwtape Letters and turned into Wormwood.
It's unnatural.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Seriously, cultist? Jehovah is merely an attempt to pronounce an abbreviation of God's name that the Jews wouldn't spell out YHWH.

Why not call Him Yahweh or Jealous?

That vocalization was never spelled out until around the 1300's.

Jehovah is the English translation of the Tetragrammaton which in Hebrew would be either Yahweh or perhaps Yehowah. This can be seen even in the King James version of Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2 & 26:4.
Other names are translated in the Bible as well. Most people have no problem in referring to Yeshua or Yeheshua as "Jesus" for one example.
The Tetragrammaton is translated differently in different languages.
Either Jehovah or Yahweh is far better than totally removing his Name and replacing it with a generic title such as LORD or GOD as many versions, including the KJV, do in most places.

[Dr. Isaiah Jones]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jehovah is the English translation of the Tetragrammaton which in Hebrew would be either Yahweh or perhaps Yehowah. This can be seen even in the King James version of Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2 & 26:4.
Other names are translated in the Bible as well. Most people have no problem in referring to Yeshua or Yeheshua as "Jesus" for one example.
The Tetragrammaton is translated differently in different languages.
Either Jehovah or Yahweh is far better than totally removing his Name and replacing it with a generic title such as LORD or GOD as many versions, including the KJV, do in most places.

It is true that God's name is Jehovah but we do not use that name in daily conversation due to what is commanded in Exodus 20:7. The Jews acknowledged this matter even before the time of Christ. Thus, "God" or "Lord" are more acceptable names to those of us who actually follow the Bible.

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

There is nothing in the Scriptures that says that this name should not be used. God said not to take His name “in vain,” or “in a worthless way.” But that does not mean that we should not use the name. Rather, it means that servants of Jehovah should not do things that discredit his name. God’s decree against the improper use of his name was twisted into a superstition.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jehovah is the English translation of the Tetragrammaton which in Hebrew would be either Yahweh or perhaps Yehowah. This can be seen even in the King James version of Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2 & 26:4.
Other names are translated in the Bible as well. Most people have no problem in referring to Yeshua or Yeheshua as "Jesus" for one example.
The Tetragrammaton is translated differently in different languages.
Either Jehovah or Yahweh is far better than totally removing his Name and replacing it with a generic title such as LORD or GOD as many versions, including the KJV, do in most places.

The Tetragrammaton occurs only in the Old Testament. It is found nowhere in the New Testament. There is no record in the Gospel accounts of Jesus referring to the Father as Jehovah or Yahweh. There is no record of any of the Apostles calling God Jehovah. The authors of the New Testament sometimes quoted from the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament, which substituted Lord for Jehovah. Yet in the New World Translation the name Jehovah is found throughout the New Testament. This is because the Greek word Kyrios, which means Lord, was deliberately mistranslated Jehovah. In an earlier post, you criticized the translators of the KJV for translating YHWH as LORD. You asked, "Aren't we blaspheming by changing Scripture?" Yet in fact the translators of the NWT mistranslated Kyrios as Jehovah. So aren't they guilty of blaspheming by changing Scripture and inserting Jehovah where it doesn't belong? Or don't the rules apply to them? In Jesus' time God's name was only spoken by the High Priest once a year on the Day of Atonement. Where does the Bible tell us we have to call God Jehovah? Moses was commanded to speak God's name to the Israelites (Ex 3:14). Are you Moses?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Interestingly, under the heading “Tetragrammaton in the New Testament,” The Anchor Bible Dictionary makes this comment: “There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the O[ld] T[estament] quotations in the N[ew] T[estament] when the NT documents were first penned.” And scholar George Howard says: “Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible [the Septuagint] which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”


http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008567

[liar mcguillicuddy]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Interestingly, under the heading “Tetragrammaton in the New Testament,” The Anchor Bible Dictionary makes this comment: “There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the O[ld] T[estament] quotations in the N[ew] T[estament] when the NT documents were first penned.” And scholar George Howard says: “Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible [the Septuagint] which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”


http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008567

How about joining the church of logic and reasoning? I hear they have the hottest girls and the best parties.

[Dr. Isaiah Jones]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Interestingly, under the heading “Tetragrammaton in the New Testament,” The Anchor Bible Dictionary makes this comment: “There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the O[ld] T[estament] quotations in the N[ew] T[estament] when the NT documents were first penned.” And scholar George Howard says: “Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible [the Septuagint] which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”


http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008567

How about quoting the actual Bible instead of some biased paper written by a mad cultist?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

When Jesus quoted the Old Testament or read from it, he used the divine name. (Deuteronomy 6:13, 16; 8:3; Psalm 110:1; Isaiah 61:1, 2; Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; 22:44; Luke 4:16-21) In the days of Jesus and his disciples, the Tetragrammaton appeared in copies of the Hebrew text of what is often called the Old Testament, as it still does today.

Jesus used God’s name and made it known to others. (John 17:6, 11, 12, 26) Jesus plainly stated: “I have come in the name of my Father.”

In fact, Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”—John 5:43; 10:25.

The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Greek Scriptures. At Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, the divine name is embedded in the expression “Alleluia,” or “Hallelujah.”

About the middle of the first century C.E., the disciple James said to the elders in Jerusalem: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.” (Acts 15:14) Does it sound logical to you that James would make such a statement if nobody in the first century knew or used God’s name?

When copies of the Septuagint were discovered that used the divine name rather than Ky′ri·os (Lord), it became evident to the translators that in Jesus’ day copies of the earlier Scriptures in Greek—and of course those in Hebrew—did contain the divine name. Apparently, the God-dishonoring tradition of removing the divine name from Greek manuscripts developed only later. What do you think? Would Jesus and his apostles have promoted such a tradition?—Matthew 15:6-9.



Quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, the apostle Paul reminded the Christians in Rome: “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” Then he asked: “How will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard?” (Romans 10:13, 14; Joel 2:32) Bible translations that use God’s name when appropriate help you to draw close to God. (James 4:8)

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The study of semiotics considers signs and signaling as communication. A red "stop" sign is recognised in most locations regardless of the language spoken or the shape of the sign, but nevertheless it is something learned. Language is also learned and words are used to signify objects or ideas. One such idea might be triangle.


The triangle itself is one thing. The word is something else.
The sound the wordtriangle signifies the thing


The word then may be called a signifier. Some people do not have language but nevertheless understand "signifiers" & if I arrange
.a large bass drum BOOM BOOM BOOM
..an orchestral triangle t i n g
...and a device programmed to produce "space invader" sounds ee ee ee EE EE EE KAPOW

then mess around a bit banging drums, tinging triangles and pressing space invader keyboards I have great fun. Especially if the space invader sounds are really loud


The fun does not require language. If I set up 2 such ensembles out of sight of each other (in different rooms, say) and have a person in one room bang the drum, the other person in the other room can hear that and bang the drum too. Similarly for the other things.
The sound BOOM BOOM BOOM signifies the thing




The Israelite YHWH is also a signifier. They did not use the Roman alphabet any more than the Greeks did and we don't know how it was pronounced. Spoken Hebrew was understood readily enough, it was the mother tongue, but writing was not universal.
However they signified "God" in speech, it was by the tetragrammaton (tetra = 4) YHWH in written form. Or was it?

YHWH are not Hebrew letters. Tetra comes from Greek. We speak English. "God" in Latin is something completely different, and the word for LORD in 20 different languages would be 20 different words. These signifiers are arbitrary. God is not. Language is not necassary to understand that.

So when the pedant declares Jehovah "is a word" — it is not. It's just a made up sound that is treated as though it were a word. The ancient Israelites did not use those letters, did not speak our language or even Latin or Greek and furthermore when any of the Hebrew words for God are translated into a different language they come out completely different.

Sabaoth for example becomes "of Hosts" or "of armies" completely different. Whether you put Lord of hosts/armies or God of hosts/armies or Yhwh of hosts/armies is really quite arbitrary and if you were translating into Japanese the signifiers would become even more remote but it would be the same God.

So of course the words are completely different. It's a different language.




We know that a triangle has 3 corners. If you understand etymology you could tell that by looking at the word. Even without language you could tell that just by looking at the triangle. But the tetrahedron at the top of the page has 4 corners (and 4 sides). Is it a type of triangle? Most people would say yes. If asked to select the "triangle" from a box containing a sphere a cube and a tetrahedron they'd pick the tetrahedron every time.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Even though it has 4 sides, not 3. The one thing may have several different characteristics, even seemingly contradictory ones — but the contradiction stems from language: the signifiers are imprecise. Reality is not.

That is why when people start building arbitrary and pedantic constructions upon imperfect language they arrive at imperfect and often catastrophic conclusions. Judaism is a good example.
Sure we use language to share God's Inerrant Word but know the reality is not the signifier.

Jehovah's Witnesses are unable to do that. They obsess over the signifier and deny reality, which is to deny God. That is how we know they are a cult.

[Maike Lorenzen, nazi witch]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I might not be a christian, but, Heathen Basher, I recommend you to return to your christian friends instead of wasting your time with Jehova witnesses. My best friend back in time- her parents were jehova witnesses and she suffered horribly under them. So bad, that she eventually killed herself. I only hear bad things about them and they are not people you want to mess with. Get yourself together and don't get yourself confused by such idiots. I might not agree with some points of this Christians, but at least they are no lying, fanatic and insane people. Trust me, I met more than enough of them.

So, do not listen to their kind, but fake words and GET AWAY FROM THEM! A kindly meant advice. They are evil.

[Uss_Columbia_SSN771]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Brothers and Sister, why even bother with the question of faith this trash has asked. No matter what we say or do, we will never be able to help him save himself. That alone is for God's doing. ephesians 2:8 states this. Nor does it matter, for even this trash has already been bought and paid for by God. 1 corinthians 16:19 and 1 corinthians 16:20. The Lord owns your ass. You will have to awnser to Him about rejecting His word. WE don't have to do anything to help.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Interestingly, under the heading “Tetragrammaton in the New Testament,” The Anchor Bible Dictionary makes this comment: “There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the O[ld] T[estament] quotations in the N[ew] T[estament] when the NT documents were first penned.” And scholar George Howard says: “Since the Tetragram was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible [the Septuagint] which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”

So you believe the text of the New Testament has been corrupted? God just couldn't keep His Word pure, try as He might.

The Bible says God will always preserve His Word.

Ps 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

When Jesus quoted the Old Testament or read from it, he used the divine name. (Deuteronomy 6:13, 16; 8:3; Psalm 110:1; Isaiah 61:1, 2; Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; 22:44; Luke 4:16-21) In the days of Jesus and his disciples, the Tetragrammaton appeared in copies of the Hebrew text of what is often called the Old Testament, as it still does today.

It was customary in Jesus' time, as it still is today, to read Adonai instead of speaking God's name.

Quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, the apostle Paul reminded the Christians in Rome: “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

Jn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You are already condemned, because you do not believe in the name of Jesus.

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Brothers and Sister, why even bother with the question of faith this trash has asked. No matter what we say or do, we will never be able to help him save himself. That alone is for God's doing. ephesians 2:8 states this. Nor does it matter, for even this trash has already been bought and paid for by God. 1 corinthians 16:19 and 1 corinthians 16:20. The Lord owns your ass. You will have to awnser to Him about rejecting His word. WE don't have to do anything to help.

Well you see, Mr. Columbia, the thing is that we are mandated by our Lord Jesus Christ to teach His word and to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19). Unfortunately it appears that Mr. Basher presently prefers to be baptized in the name of the YHWH, the archangel Michael, and the active force.

Tell me, Heathen, how do you explain that the Bible refers to Jesus as God manifest in the flesh?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I might not be a christian, but, Heathen Basher, I recommend you to return to your christian friends instead of wasting your time with Jehova witnesses. My best friend back in time- her parents were jehova witnesses and she suffered horribly under them. So bad, that she eventually killed herself. I only hear bad things about them and they are not people you want to mess with. Get yourself together and don't get yourself confused by such idiots. I might not agree with some points of this Christians, but at least they are no lying, fanatic and insane people. Trust me, I met more than enough of them.

So, do not listen to their kind, but fake words and GET AWAY FROM THEM! A kindly meant advice. They are evil.

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I have to agree with the gyspy witch.