[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

And again, Jehovah is not the sacred Name. It is a pronunciation of an abbreviation.

Correct it's YHWH in Hebrew, also He is called Yahweh. Jehovah is the romanized translation for YHWH.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Brother Pedergast, this frightens me!

What if Heathen Basher only thought he was Saved© but never was? What if his baptism never took?!? What if his Born Again experience was only wishful thinking and a surge of adrenaline and endorphins that accompanied the excitement of such an event???

Oh dear!

What if I am not Saved© either!

What if the LORD does not hear my prayers because I only think I'm Saved©, but in reality I'm just another sinner?

What if all this time I thought I was Saved©, the LORD was watching my soul get blacker and blacker with PRIDE, because I only imagined I was Saved©!!!

Oh Dear! Oh my word! Oh my Heavens!

O Come LORD Jesus!

NO! DON'T Come just yet! I have to KNOW if I'm SAVED© or not!



What do I do?

There is no need to be alarmed, Sister. You and I can be assured of our salvation.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Holy Spirit bears witness in our hearts that we are God's children.

2 Tim 1:12b For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Like Paul, we know we believe in Jesus. We are persuaded that He is able to save us. I can see, Sister Mary, that God has begun a good work in your life. I know He will bring His work to fruition, because He promises in His Word.

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God will keep working in you until Jesus returns. So you can pray, "Come, Lord Jesus" with confidence. You can be sure you have eternal life if you love your fellow True Christians™.

1 Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Not only can you know whether you yourself have eternal life, you can discern whether someone else does too.

Mat 7:15-23
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You can tell whether someone is saved by their fruit. Jesus promises that false teachers will come. Some will even infiltrate the church and become junior pastors. They may appear to be one of the flock, but if you look hard enough, you can see beneath the disguise; you can see the wolf who is trying to devour the unwary sheep. In hindsight I can see Heathen Basher's fruit, while it appeared good on the outside, was rotten on the inside, like biting into a delicious-looking apple only to find a worm inside. Now we can see his true colors. He is trying to sow discord among God's people. So once again, God's Word has proved itself reliable.

Clearly, Heathen Basher had been deceiving himself all this time and is still deceiving himself. On the Last Day, he will cry out to Jesus, "Lord, Lord!" But his illusions will be shattered when Jesus casts him into the lake of fire and he finds out that hell is indeed a real place, contrary to what the Watchtower told him.

The fruit of the Spirit is described in Galatians 5:22-23.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This is the fruit you should see in a fellow believer. The fruit of the flesh is obvious.

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I bolded the sins of which Heathen Basher is guilty. Any miscellaneous behaviors you think are sins can be clumped under "such like." His spiritual fruit, or lack thereof, is now clear for all to see. We know he is no child of God.

Another way you can know whether you are saved is if you don't leave the church. Heathen Basher has, it would seem, but you're still here.

1 Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

There is no need to fret over your salvation. You can know you are saved unless you are deceiving yourself into thinking you know you are saved. Or God could be deceiving you too (2 Thess 2:11). I hope this puts your mind to rest.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The Watchtower has actually evolved and changed in a number of ways during the years, moving into closer agreement with the Scriptures, rather than slavishly obeying only what Russell taught.

If the Watchtower had to change in a number of ways during the years, in order to move into agreement with the Scriptures, where was Charles Taze Russell's doctrine coming from?

there must be a sort of spectrum

RUSSELL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . HeathenBasher . . . . BIBLE

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

If the Watchtower had to change in a number of ways during the years, in order to move into agreement with the Scriptures, where was Charles Taze Russell's doctrine coming from?

there must be a sort of spectrum

RUSSELL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . HeathenBasher . . . . BIBLE

Russell knew the Bible a lot better than you, missy.

[Tool of satan]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Brother Pedergast, this frightens me!

What if Heathen Basher only thought he was Saved© but never was? What if his baptism never took?!? What if his Born Again experience was only wishful thinking and a surge of adrenaline and endorphins that accompanied the excitement of such an event???

Oh dear!

What if I am not Saved© either!

What if the LORD does not hear my prayers because I only think I'm Saved©, but in reality I'm just another sinner?

What if all this time I thought I was Saved©, the LORD was watching my soul get blacker and blacker with PRIDE, because I only imagined I was Saved©!!!

Oh Dear! Oh my word! Oh my Heavens!

O Come LORD Jesus!

NO! DON'T Come just yet! I have to KNOW if I'm SAVED© or not!



What do I do?

No need to fall into hysterics.
Obviously, every True Christian thinks they're Saved like this Heathen guy does/did. You all thought he was saved too. Kind of goes against the "True Christians are perfect" thing.

You could just think that you know you're Saved. Problem solved. (For you at least.)

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

No need to fall into hysterics.
Obviously, every True Christian thinks they're Saved like this Heathen guy does/did. Kind of goes against the "True Christians are perfect" thing.

You could just think that you know you're Saved. Problem solved. (For you at least.)

Did you even read my response? We True Christians™ can know whether we're saved and whether somebody else is. People who aren't saved can deceive themselves, or be deceived by God, into thinking they're saved or that somebody else is.

One example I gave was that the Holy Spirit testifies in our hearts that we are saved (Rom 8:16). The Holy Spirit does not dwell in unbelievers, so it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to testify in an unbeliever's heart that he is saved. Another name for the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth (Jn 16:13). So if the Holy Spirit assures you of your salvation, you can be sure indeed that you are saved.

God foretold that there would be false prophets, like our fallen ex-brother.

Mk 13:22-23 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

The fact that Heathen Basher turned out to be a heretic only proves God's Word. God sends false prophets to deceive and damn those who don't believe the truth -- the unsaved.

2 Thess 2:8-12
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Kings 2:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chron 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jer 4:10 Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jer 20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezk 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

You all thought he was saved too.

There is such a thing as retroactive discernment. We know that someone cannot fall from grace.

Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Based on this theology, the Apostle John knew that apostates were never really saved to begin with.

1 Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

No need to fall into hysterics.

I thought you were banned I'm sure you're in your absolute glory over one of our own falling away. After all, isn't that what you Satanic followers come here for? Do you think you'll get extra bonuses in Hell if you make a True Christian(TM) fall?

People like you make me sick to my stomach, and this is the reason we need to work harder at bringing this country back to God.

Obviously, every True Christian thinks they're Saved like this Heathen guy does/did. You all thought he was saved too. Kind of goes against the "True Christians are perfect" thing.

TRUE CHRISTIANS(tm) ARE PERFECT!

THE BIBLE TELLS US SO!
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now that doesn't mean we don't have regrets, or doubts. God has regretted making man on more than one occasion.

1 Samuel 15:11
Genesis 6:6


I am praying that our borderline Brother remembers this Bible quote.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You could just think that you know you're Saved. Problem solved. (For you at least.)

Yeah, you can quit giggling about this situation now. Anyway, it's not like Satan will give you the soul bonus, that will go to the JW's who infected him with the demon.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

If the Watchtower had to change in a number of ways during the years, in order to move into agreement with the Scriptures, where was Charles Taze Russell's doctrine coming from?

Russell knew the Bible a lot better than you, missy.

Thank you for replying.
I was not claiming to know The Bible.
My question was if The Watchtower changed (in a number of ways) then the motivation for that change (to move it into agreement with the Scriptures) must have come from some better knowledge (of The Bible) than Russell had. Otherwise it would not have to change, it would already be in the 2nd state based on Russell's knowledge.

Whether that was an individual or group is not important. So how can you know whether in the future there won't be another group (or individual) having a better Biblical understanding than prevails today, in The Watchtower, requiring changes from the current position?

Just as today's doctrine has been changed from Russell's?

[Shimei]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Hey, so on my recent missionary tour into the unsaved darkness of the greater Des Moines area, I came across two very kind and smartly dressed men. They looked fairly Christian to me, so I struck up a conversation with them, and they were nice enough to offer me a magazine called the Watch Tower. They didn't read the King James Bible though, just something called the New World Translation.

Anyway, they brought up some ideas to me that were pretty troubling. I've always prided myself on being a Bible-alone believer, and I realize now there's very little evidence in the Bible to suggest that Jesus is actually God!

Look at John 14:28 for example. Jesus says, "My Father is greater than I."

In Philippians 2:9 it says of Jesus, "God also hath highly exalted him". How could God exalt Jesus if Jesus is God and therefore already the highest level possible?

Sure, Jesus is called the son of God, but so are many other people. Even Adam is - Luke 3:38 "Adam, which was the son of God."

God is uncreated, but the Bible says Jesus is a creation, albeit the firstborn of creation (Colossians 1:15).

Micah 5:2 says that Jesus' origins are from ancient times, but God doesn't have an origin, he's eternal.

When I read those Scripture, apparently, there is a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Thank you for replying.
I was not claiming to know The Bible.
My question was if The Watchtower changed (in a number of ways) then the motivation for that change (to move it into agreement with the Scriptures) must have come from some better knowledge (of The Bible) than Russell had. Otherwise it would not have to change, it would already be in the 2nd state based on Russell's knowledge.

Whether that was an individual or group is not important. So how can you know whether in the future there won't be another group (or individual) having a better Biblical understanding than prevails today, in The Watchtower, requiring changes from the current position?

Just as today's doctrine has been changed from Russell's?

I'm not going to listen to your heretical lies!!!

[Ryan Gray]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I'm not going to listen to your heretical lies!!!

What happened to you Heather_Basher? You were an True Christian before, but now you are turning away from salvation, why?

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Hey, so on my recent missionary tour into the unsaved darkness of the greater Des Moines area, I came across two very kind and smartly dressed men. They looked fairly Christian to me, so I struck up a conversation with them, and they were nice enough to offer me a magazine called the Watch Tower. They didn't read the King James Bible though, just something called the New World Translation.

The New Word Translation is not the best and is out of date in their own views. From Collosians KJV

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Now you see the Jehovah's Witnesses add a word in there for it to make sense to them in their translation. "Through him all OTHER things were made."

And they take ideas out from the context, and invent interpretations that do still fit with the verses before and after!

Scriptures explain scriptures, verses in context with other verses and in the Old Testament with the New. We check the NT with the OT.

Isaiah calls Him, "Father of Eternity." And it is written, , "Listen Israel, the Lord your God the Lord is united." or "one." Deut 6:4.

Deu 6:4 Hear,H8085 O Israel:H3478 The LORDH3068 our GodH430 is oneH259 LORD:H3068 KJV with Numbers.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

In Revelations Jesus calls Himself the First and the Last. Can you see there is no interpretation until the verses are recalled together?

Now, with many verses in mind at once, explaining each other, not canceling any others out, nor with cult sensibility. Jesus Himself has in part, never been created. With the Father, He is above time itself as it's creator. Jesus created wisdom itself, with the Father. Light and love are not created. In Jesus Christ is the eternal uncreated Spirit of God, dwelling fully, in a fully human, spirit, small, "s", soul and body, created during the incarnation in mother Mary. Jesus had a human-like nature.

Do God dwelt among us as one of us.

Only God forgives sins. Jesus' blood has that power, with an eternal element.

We have as our main goal and objective as Christians, all in common, of "receive Christ" which means His Holy Spirit can come into and stay in your hear and all six billion other people's hearts and save them from sin and make us a holy people unto God, loving... so holiness is the goal after.

Where God's Spirit is ruling, there is His Kingdom! That is what makes us brothers. No angels can save us from sin, wash our consciences, or fill billions of hearts, nor if a billion angels filled a billion hearts could they save us!

Yet Christ is in the heart of every saint, making us His Kingdom. And what worth in Him! One of us so he feels humanity. Never sinned, perfect in love. Then to take all our diseases, all our sins and weaknesses, and all our deaths. Worthy is Jesus of worship as God alone. He rose from all the spirits of deaths' holds. Even Michael the might archangel would be challenged to fight ten dark angels on his own! But countless octillions?

Jesus was the aim of death, to take Him and inherit his power from a synoptic Gospel Mark, and Matthew also writes of such a parable,about the sum total of angels of light and their power for God. In the parable "Servants".
Mar 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. KJV
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. KJV
The angels were not able to judge us or defeat sin and death. Only God dwelling in human for could.

So Jesus was the first born from the dead, son of God, God the son, son of man. In our race, faced our three enemies and according to John ch 2, raised himself from the dead. Rebuilt His temple. Now for us Adamic people there is a Way to Life.

Emmanuel, God with us. Jesus, from Yeshua, means YHWH is my salvation.

God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead as they always do things together. In agreement. Father, sends the son, son sends the Holy Spirit. They are all the same age, and stature.

God the Son emptied Himself of use of Godly appearance and power, as if to sleep he went. But in glory, he is again good and Godly to fullness. Philippians says this, if you read it in context.

Anyway, they brought up some ideas to me that were pretty troubling. I've always prided myself on being a Bible-alone believer, and I realize now there's very little evidence in the Bible to suggest that Jesus is actually God!

Look at John 14:28 for example. Jesus says, "My Father is greater than I."

In Philippians 2:9 it says of Jesus, "God also hath highly exalted him". How could God exalt Jesus if Jesus is God and therefore already the highest level possible?

Sure, Jesus is called the son of God, but so are many other people. Even Adam is - Luke 3:38 "Adam, which was the son of God."

God is uncreated, but the Bible says Jesus is a creation, albeit the firstborn of creation (Colossians 1:15).

Micah 5:2 says that Jesus' origins are from ancient times, but God doesn't have an origin, he's eternal.

So verses with verses, old and new, things make sense according to the teachings that are authentic. Peter's, Paul's, John's disciples and theirs and those after... on record.

Mat 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. KJV

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I'm not going to listen to your heretical lies!!!

This kind of selective hearing is peculiar to the unsaved.

Jn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

You only listen to what you want to hear.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

We True Christians(tm) are all ears when it comes to hearing the truth of God's Word.

Mk 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

And God tells us not to listen to false prophets who try to turn us from the truth.

Deut 13:1-3 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

You won't listen to us, because you are not of God. We won't listen to you, because you are not of God.

[JustGotSaved]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Heathen (well named),

You were obviously never really saved anyway!

Hebrews 6:4-6


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


John 10:27-30


27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.



If you stop and see your error, and come back to us you will prove you actually were/are saved all along.

Just Got Saved (are YOU ?)

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Heathen (well named),

You were obviously never really saved anyway!

Hebrews 6:4-6


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


John 10:27-30


27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.



If you stop and see your error, and come back to us you will prove you actually were/are saved all along.

Just Got Saved (are YOU ?)

I'm saved. You might be too. I don't know, I don't judge others. We Witnesses are above such condescending behaviour.