[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The spirits wanted Jesus' power. So they tried to kill His Spirit and hold Him in death, but lost, the light of life was not extinguished more like a Trojan Horse.

Now they don't want us to believe Jesus rose from the dead, and on His own power. By hurting our faith, they end our lives us and hurt God.

The Jehovah's Witness takes verses out of context and has a sensibility which comes from was it a nineteenth century interpreter? They have no real scholars yet, no university.

But in context, the verses make another sense. Instead of verse, concept and new idea, verse in context, interpreted in with other verses and their sensibility, cuts the JW sense out.

Jesus Christ Spirit, actual and local in your heart is your salvation bro.

Omnipresence is part of Him and His service to us.
Omnipotence in resurrection.
Omniscience in Jesus view from the cross of your face, and from Heaven of your beginning and end and when He will return for us...

Jesus' blood is not angel's blood, nor only human.

Death is our biggest strongest enemy, we think is only nature to often, but Jesus rose up from death. Adam was never meant to die, Enoch and Elijah never died.

From ancient times means from eternity past, or no origin in time.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The spirits wanted Jesus' power. So they tried to kill His Spirit and hold Him in death, but lost, the light of life was not extinguished more like a Trojan Horse.

Do you have any scripture to back that up?

Now they don't want us to believe Jesus rose from the dead, and on His own power. By hurting our faith, they end our lives us and hurt God.

Jehovah raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 2:24, 32 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. (v.24) This Jesus hath God raised up. (v.32)

Acts 4:10 Jesus Christ ... whom God raised from the dead....
Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead.
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 ... his Son ... whom he raised from the dead.

The Jehovah's Witness takes verses out of context and has a sensibility which comes from was it a nineteenth century interpreter? They have no real scholars yet, no university.

No. In fact it is mainstream Christians like you who take verses out of context. You follow the sensibilities of Roman Catholic pagans centuries after Jesus came. We only follow the Bible. You only follow scholars. True scholarship shows the King James Bible is a mistranslation.

But in context, the verses make another sense. Instead of verse, concept and new idea, verse in context, interpreted in with other verses and their sensibility, cuts the JW sense out.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Actually, all of that applies to your heretical beliefs.

Jesus Christ Spirit, actual and local in your heart is your salvation bro.

It is obvious that many people who have been told that they are "saved" do not live the way the Bible says they should. A common explanation is that perhaps they had not really "accepted" Christ.



So, what does "accepting" Jesus really mean? Is it a one-time act of faith, or is it a continuing way of life? Must our belief be strong enough to motivate us to action? Can we really accept the benefits of Jesus' sacrifice without the responsibility of following him?


Many people want the blessings but not the responsibility of following and obeying Jesus. In fact, the word "obey" often disturbs them. Yet Jesus said: "Come be my follower." (Luke 18:18-23) And the Bible states: "Those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus . . . will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction."—2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9; Matthew 10:38; 16:24.

SOURCE: Have You Been Saved? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Three names have merely been listed, and no instance of the word trinity in any bible. Obviously it came from a man made philosophy.

Jesus said himself, "The father is greater than I"

I don't think he said equal to, did he not?

Jesus also said, "I and the Father are one" some Trinitarians also seem to cling to this as well.

Did he literally mean one? No, 'cause he would be contradicting himself from my quote above. They are one in purpose and in union with each other. He did the will of his Father Jehovah. He never did anything of his own initiative, he glorified his Father not himself.

If you want to baptize in all the nations ( Matthew 28:19 )

You need to be preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth as well ( Matthew 24:14 )

You can't have one without the other.[INDENT]

The best and earliest manuscripts say Christ "who was made manifest in the flesh," not "God was made manifest in the flesh."

Collosians says Jesus was God in the flesh. You are trying to cancel scriptures explain scriptures.

There is no theology in the Bible, so no words like "Trinity" or "Modes" or "Demi-god" or any! It is a relational book our Father's letters to us. So then, Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Father, Brother, Friend, Advocate. Love.

Human philosophy making theology began so early that it is attested as alright, together with the Septuagint, logic, and Greek philosophy is okay. However better used to go towards Hebrew thought, as ideal.

The Arian theology point to Jesus and a demi-god, this is more like JW descriptions.

I may not myself be a scholar but we Christians have great scholars and Universities and records! JWs can't talk.

"Triad" is a words first recorded in use by early Christians in a letter in the second century.

Healing rallies were still taking place into the writing times of Augustine Bishop of Hippo. The Spirit kept the elders and the elders kept the faith, as Augustine became one. And He wrote a great account of the Blessed Three in One, De Trinitate.

It is not just human philosophy. It is the faith contended for amidst human philosophy, explained and defended in the terms of the times, resulting in words like theology and Christology and Pneumatology and Paterology... It is good work. It is for your salvation, to keep you and I in faith.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Collosians says Jesus was God in the flesh. You are trying to cancel scriptures explain scriptures.

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form,

Read the next verse:

10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness.

The Greek work katoikei ("dwells") is itself descriptive in meaning. It means the fullness of God has taken up permanent residence in Jesus. This is why Thomas exclaimed, "My Lord and My God" to Jesus. The Holy Father who is Holy Spirit by nature was fully present and resident in the risen Jesus bodily. Colossians 2:9 simply means that in the body of Jesus is the fullness of deity of the Deity, not in the sense of fullness being "inside" his body but in the sense that his risen body is now itself that fullness of deity. His risen bodily nature is full deity in essence. This was not true of Jesus in his incarnate and unrisen state. Mortality was swallowed up in immortality in his resurrection. Spirit swallowed up his mortal flesh. At the cross, Jesus "put off the flesh" (died) and rose up again in that same body into the fullness of the essence of deity pertaining to his body which is what Paul is talking about at Col 2:9-15. Paul reminds Christians in the very next verse (2:10) that we also now have this same fullness of deity. But we do not yet have it in bodily form as Jesus does but it is the Holy Spirit in our hearts. This is what it means to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit or be "full" of the Holy Spirit. It means to be filled up with God in us. That is how much he loves us. But when we rise from the dead, our bodies will be made like his and all the fullness of deity will also be pleased to dwell in us bodily just as all the fullness is pleased to dwell in our hearts right now. This does not make us God and just as we won't be "God" because we will also have the fullness of deity in us bodily, it does not make Jesus "God" either. That title is reserved for his Father. Jesus is "of" God and so is deity of The Deity.

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Do you have any scripture to back that up?



Jehovah raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 2:24, 32 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. (v.24) This Jesus hath God raised up. (v.32)

Acts 4:10 Jesus Christ ... whom God raised from the dead....
Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead.
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 ... his Son ... whom he raised from the dead.



No. In fact it is mainstream Christians like you who take verses out of context. You follow the sensibilities of Roman Catholic pagans centuries after Jesus came. We only follow the Bible. You only follow scholars. True scholarship shows the King James Bible is a mistranslation.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Actually, all of that applies to your heretical beliefs.



It is obvious that many people who have been told that they are "saved" do not live the way the Bible says they should. A common explanation is that perhaps they had not really "accepted" Christ.



So, what does "accepting" Jesus really mean? Is it a one-time act of faith, or is it a continuing way of life? Must our belief be strong enough to motivate us to action? Can we really accept the benefits of Jesus' sacrifice without the responsibility of following him?


Many people want the blessings but not the responsibility of following and obeying Jesus. In fact, the word "obey" often disturbs them. Yet Jesus said: "Come be my follower." (Luke 18:18-23) And the Bible states: "Those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus . . . will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction."—2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9; Matthew 10:38; 16:24.

SOURCE: Have You Been Saved? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

Jesus said in the Gospel passage I quoted earlier, in parable form, that the workers beat up the land owner's messengers, killed others and wanted to kill the heir to have the inheritance. In the Old Testament there is a passage about a person who figuratively is like Satan his father, who says, "I will" and continues to speak of exalting himself above God. God's power is what he wanted all along.

John ch 2, Jesus says, destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days.

Can you give me an example of how I have, or another Christian has taken verses out of context?

True salvation can be discerned and yes need be done,

Salvation is to be followed by changes, Gal 5:22, freedom, strength... holiness results as I wrote before.

The truth is, to be saved you need believe in Jesus for all He is and does...

Then, you were saved, you are being saved and you will be saved.

Jesus forgives sins and accepts worship, as due, worthy is the one who made a way from death to life for people.

We can only obey by believing and receiving Him and relying on His Spirit, not our own good works and sin continues and jealous brothers. Persecution and endurances.

Christ in my heart and the Father are one Holy Spirit, once substance, spirit, light and love, all above time, never created. Except Jesus body...

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

John ch 2, Jesus says, destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days.

Jesus raises the temple (his body) up by remaining sinless until death. That guarantees that Jehovah God will resurrect him.

You see only Jesus can make that happen. If Jesus does not stay sinless before he dies then Jehovah will not resurrect him.

So Jesus' resurrection is very much in his own hands. By keeping his integrity until death he furnishes his own resurrection.

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Colossians 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form,

Read the next verse:

10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness.

The Greek work katoikei ("dwells") is itself descriptive in meaning. It means the fullness of God has taken up permanent residence in Jesus. This is why Thomas exclaimed, "My Lord and My God" to Jesus. The Holy Father who is Holy Spirit by nature was fully present and resident in the risen Jesus bodily. Colossians 2:9 simply means that in the body of Jesus is the fullness of deity of the Deity, not in the sense of fullness being "inside" his body but in the sense that his risen body is now itself that fullness of deity. His risen bodily nature is full deity in essence. This was not true of Jesus in his incarnate and unrisen state. Mortality was swallowed up in immortality in his resurrection. Spirit swallowed up his mortal flesh. At the cross, Jesus "put off the flesh" (died) and rose up again in that same body into the fullness of the essence of deity pertaining to his body which is what Paul is talking about at Col 2:9-15. Paul reminds Christians in the very next verse (2:10) that we also now have this same fullness of deity. But we do not yet have it in bodily form as Jesus does but it is the Holy Spirit in our hearts. This is what it means to be "filled" with the Holy Spirit or be "full" of the Holy Spirit. It means to be filled up with God in us. That is how much he loves us. But when we rise from the dead, our bodies will be made like his and all the fullness of deity will also be pleased to dwell in us bodily just as all the fullness is pleased to dwell in our hearts right now. This does not make us God and just as we won't be "God" because we will also have the fullness of deity in us bodily, it does not make Jesus "God" either. That title is reserved for his Father. Jesus is "of" God and so is deity of The Deity.

The quote with Greek does not work well.

Col 2:9 because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Col 2:10 and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority, Young's Literal Translation. I have ten Bibles. Including Strong's Numbers.

The fullness of God was incarnate at Jesus' conception. Temporarily emptied to the form of a servant, not to use His own power but the anointing or Christ, for our sakes. Now returned to glory as before He was born, with humanity as one thing.

Thomas who received Christ and obeyed all his life after, never would be called "My Lord and my God."

Full deity in essence isn't full deity.

His flesh cannot become full deity, even in essence.

We cannot have the same fullness of deity and Jesus in John ch 2 said He had the power to raise Himself from the dead. Michael the archangel could produce such power, remember death is a spirit. As Paul asks, "Where is your sting death?"

Jesus is the beginning and the end, not created, above time, creator of wisdom. His nature to overcome death, before the resurrection, is light, fullness of light, fully uncreated light. But I may check John ch 1 and John's other writings to make sure about light. John says God is light.

Jesus power was greater than Satan's as he was seeming abandoned on the cross.

In Genesis, the Spirit hovered over the deep. Then the word, and great power in the Spirit recreated the Earth. All through the Bible it is about God's presence always near men, acting, loving. His presence effects change, recreation, love... So we need him in our hearts, Jesus acted as one of us for a short time, only using the Spirit as we can. But in Heaven it is different, He is glorified.

In Collosians it tells us not to have false humility and not to worship angels.

[Novatian]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jesus raises the temple (his body) up by remaining sinless until death. That guarantees that Jehovah God will resurrect him.

You see only Jesus can make that happen. If Jesus does not stay sinless before he dies then Jehovah will not resurrect him.

So Jesus' resurrection is very much in his own hands. By keeping his integrity until death he furnishes his own resurrection.

Jesus says "I will" not my father will if I keep from sin. You see, the Son raised himself against the strength of the power of many many spirits of death.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

The fullness of God was incarnate at Jesus' conception. Temporarily emptied to the form of a servant, not to use His own power but the anointing or Christ, for our sakes. Now returned to glory as before He was born, with humanity as one thing.

A large part of the misunderstandings of this passage are caused by ignorance of the nature of the resurrection body. "God is spirit" (Jn 4:24) and when Christ was bodily raised from the dead he was raised "life-giving" Spirit (1 Cor 15:45). This is just another way of saying all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Jesus Christ in bodily form. His physical body of flesh was spiritualized into the fullness of God such that his flesh and the Holy Spirit became one new creation without horizon between the two. His physical body is now fully animated by the Spirit such that the Spirit and his flesh became one new creation, the new man, new adam, the essence of spirit and flesh together as one, yet indivisible and without horizon, spiritual flesh. The Bible tells us that the Spirit is life. God is immortal life, and mortality was swallowed up by immortality, and death swallowed up by life, his flesh swallowed up by Spirit, pertaining to Jesus' body. Mortal flesh was swallowed up by the Spirit of life. We ourselves will be raised with a body of the fullness of deity just like his body (1 Cor 15:49; Php 3:20-21; cf. 1 Jn 3:2). This will not make us "God" although we will have God's divine nature just as Jesus does. This is what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). In this way, we becomes sons of God substantially (Rom 8:18-25). In Biblical thought, our bodies are like a house or a tent (see 2 Cor 4:17-5:5) and an unresurrected body with the Spirit is like a house with a light on inside of it. That is what it means to have the fullness of God inside of us now - the Spirit inside our body in our hearts (see Gal 4:6). But a resurrected body is like a house that is the light itself that needs no extra light to light it up - it becomes spiritualized with the fullness and glory of the Spirit of God (see 2 Cor 3:17-18). God is light and this is what it means to be bodily glorified (see also Rom 8:10-25; 1 Cor 15:40-45).

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Jesus says "I will" not my father will if I keep from sin.

Churchoid interpretation:

Jesus never died (He and the Bible lied); he changed back into a spirit ('immortal soul', remember?) preaching to demons screaming in 'Hellfire' for 3 days, then re-entered his corpse, appeared to his followers for about month, then went to heaven- where he still has that bloodless corpse.
.
The Almighty Zombie Son God, Jesus!
Together again with the Nameless Faceless Ghost-God, and the Nameless sub-God the Father!

RIGHT, churchoids?

You see, the Son raised himself against the strength of the power of many many spirits of death.

Do you have scripture to back that up?

[Ryan Gray]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I am afraid that the account of brother, Heathen_Basher may be hacked. I don't think that he is writing all this nonsense. It doesn't make any sense at all. Why would he waste 5 years here just for the day he will abandon us.

After analyzing his posts and threads, it came to my attention that his posts these days, differ from his posts before. The use of signs such as: .,:?!", the use of smiles, different approaches to sinners...

I've seen many trash here lately. One of them probably hacked account of our brother, because it doesn't make sense that JW brainwashes a man with such strong faith.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I am afraid that the account of brother, Heathen_Basher may be hacked. I don't think that he is writing all this nonsense. It doesn't make any sense at all. Why would he waste 5 years here just for the day he will abandon us.

After analyzing his posts and threads, it came to my attention that his posts these days, differ from his posts before. The use of signs such as: .,:?!", the use of smiles, different approaches to sinners...

I've seen many trash here lately. One of them probably hacked account of our brother, because it doesn't make sense that JW brainwashes a man with such strong faith.

No, I merely discovered the TRUTH.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

No, I merely discovered the TRUTH.

How do we know it's you?

Oh, and don't come to my house, the dogs are out.

[Brother Harold Porter]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

I am afraid that the account of brother, Heathen_Basher may be hacked.

Sadly, it really is him. I feel so bad for his corrupt and doomed soul. Many weekends I spent with my Brother, witnessing to the filthy Sodomites and spelling out in detail what their future in Hell would be like if they didn't abandon the choice to be fags. It breaks my heart to think that he will have his ankles next to his ears to service Satan for all of eternity, just like they will.

He knows full well that this is blasphemous foolishness, but it is his choice. I'll continue to pray.

In Christ

[BelieverInGod]

Re: I'm having a crisis of faith! Is Jesus really God???

Sadly, it really is him. I feel so bad for his corrupt and doomed soul. Many weekends I spent with my Brother, witnessing to the filthy Sodomites and spelling out in detail what their future in Hell would be like if they didn't abandon the choice to be fags. It breaks my heart to think that he will have his ankles next to his ears to service Satan for all of eternity, just like they will.

He knows full well that this is blasphemous foolishness, but it is his choice. I'll continue to pray.

In Christ

Demons, it must be demons.

Can't the pastors catch him and do an exorcism?