[Princess L]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

And faith needs works, according to other verses of the Bible (we have seen them before, didn't we? I mean James 2:14-26 for example)
So if you do good things, but do not believe in Jesus, you are going to Hell. That's salvation through faith and not works.
But in believing, you have to DO what God tells you. God tells you to go and multiply, God tells you that you are going to be saved by childbirth. God also tells you what not to do (e.g. you should not use mixed fabric)
Works and faith go hand in hand. You should show your faith in your works, otherwise is dead and useless; those are God's words. That is why we need to preach and tell all the people in the world about the good news. It is commanded in the Bible that we do that work.


The blood of Christ is sufficient for salvation of the True Christians, and only the True Christians. And True Christians are the ones that follow all the Bible, 100%, and act accordingly.


Anyway, you will carry on thinking that the Bible is not speaking to you, but to the whole mankind (so if mankind multiplies, you are out of that work) or to a specific woman (so you don't need to have your own children)


Good luck with that.

Find me at least one verse that says "works are necessary for salvation". All you've done is provide verses that can be misinterpreted as saying that. I believe the verses I put forth were clear on the matter.

We are commanded and justified by the works that we do as Christians, but we are saved by faith alone. That last part is stated very clearly in the Bible.

In saying that works are necessary for salvation in any way is a heretical minimization of Christ's sacrifice for us on the cross.

[Princess L]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

And faith needs works, according to other verses of the Bible (we have seen them before, didn't we? I mean James 2:14-26 for example)
So if you do good things, but do not believe in Jesus, you are going to Hell. That's salvation through faith and not works.
But in believing, you have to DO what God tells you. God tells you to go and multiply, God tells you that you are going to be saved by childbirth. God also tells you what not to do (e.g. you should not use mixed fabric)

Of course "faith without works is dead". What this verse is saying is that works are an indicator of whether or not someone truly believes. If someone truly believes, then good works will inevitably follow.

NOWHERE does the Bible explicitly state "you will be damned if you do not do good works"

[Basilissa]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Find me at least one verse that says "works are necessary for salvation".

How about these, sweetie:

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Matthew 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Matthew 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

We are commanded and justified by the works that we do as Christians, but we are saved by faith alone. That last part is stated very clearly in the Bible.

That is not true. We are definitely not saved through faith alone:

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[. . .]
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[. . .]
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[. . .]
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[. . .]
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

In saying that works are necessary for salvation in any way is a heretical minimization of Christ's sacrifice for us on the cross.

And do not forget - in the end, it's not our faith, neither our works, it's purely God's Grace:

Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Especially when you take under account that God can make people believe (Acts 16:14) and not believe 2nd Thessalonians 2:11.

I hope that was helpful.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

How about these, sweetie:
***many wonderful verses***

That is not true. We are definitely not saved through faith alone:
***more wonderful verses***

And do not forget - in the end, it's not our faith, neither our works, it's purely God's Grace:
***still more wonderful verses***

Especially when you take under account that God can make people believe (Acts 16:14) and not believe 2nd Thessalonians 2:11.

I hope that was helpful.

Dear Sister,

This Unsaved visitor makes me sad. I know that the posts of this visitor only reflect the current state of mind in the world, but it is still heartbreaking. Instead of seeking for knowledge, people only look for confirmation of their preconceptions. This person does that by simply dismissing all arguments (of which the verses you mentioned are among the most powerful ones) that do not fit the bias.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All Scripture.

The verses this person posts are wonderful and glorious yet removed from the context that is the Whole Bible = All Scripture. Afraid of the paradox of the reality of Jesus (that need not be a simple reality as we perceive it) this visitor is probably afraid that seeing the Pauline adherence to "Faith only" together with the Jamesian "Works, too", the Bible would somehow prove to be contradictory.

This is incomprehensible. With all the data available at a finger's reach, it is hard to understand why people would not consider all facets of the Truth™ (=All Scripture). This must be because they no longer know where the Truth™, the facts come from: Authority. Spiritual facts from All Scripture and secular facts from our elected leader.

Furthermore, let us assess 2 Timothy 3:16 in more detail. "...given by inspiration of God...". This means that it comes directly from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. Dismissing parts of All Scripture is thus dismissing some parts of the message that the Holy Spirit brought to mankind. I dare not make a conclusion but I am only asking is this dismissal is enough to implement Matthew 12:31? Let us pray for this person. It is sad sad despite our Love and encouragement this visitor still wants to remain in obscurity.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

The verse cited…says (according to your misinterpretation of it), that a woman must bear children to be saved.

I thought I'd better have a look at that verse. I take it that from the OP you're referring to I Timothy.

I TIMOTHY 2 . KJV . look up
13 Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

To start with God explains the sin of being deceived. Eve lived in a world where there was no death. She did not know what it meant to lie because there was no sin and until very recently there was only one human so there'd have been no-one to lie to. There would be no pre-existing condition, if you like. Satan was therefore able to deceive her and that was a transgression on her part. You'd think it was a transgression on Satan's part but that's why we have The Bible, to explain things that otherwise would be unexpected. If we could work everything out for ourselves there'd be no point having The Bible would there.

So clearly Eve could say “God hath said ‘Ye shall not eat of it neither shall ye touch it lest ye die’” but how could she possibly know what that meant? She had only just been created, there was no sin in the world and nothing had yet died. We know this again somewhat counter-intuitive fact because God has explained it for us so that we will know. Thus it was easy for her to commit the sin of being conned. The consequences were catastrophic, not only for the animal kingdom but also for plants, which sprouted thorns. The animal equivalent would be sprouting fangs, making it difficult for them to live on vegetation or even impossible in some cases so they had to start eating one another. Eve was the transgressor here.

I TIMOTHY 2 . KJV . look up
14b The woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15a Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing..

What do you think this means? That it only applies to Eve? The message was a bit late in that case! Surely it applies to the then present. And what about women, then, who had not had children? It would apply to them too, surely? I'll tell you what I think it means, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it means Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. But God did not stop there. Do you know what a conditional clause is? I'll show you one (in blue)

I TIMOTHY 2 . KJV . look up
15a Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing..
15b if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Notice that word if. The class "woman" (singular) can be saved in childbearing. Why would God say that if it was false? But there are conditions - that's what the "if" means: if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Childbearing is necessary but alone is insufficient. I think God means to tell us that Adam was first formed then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived was in the transgression; notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The conditional clause is referring to activities required from individuals thenceforth, that is to the present day and beyond except for sobriety which is not an activity as such. Keep off the gin, rum, vodka, maybe an odd cocktail is OK and a little wine is of course commanded specifically in preference to water but not a flagon of sherry before breakfast.

What do you think these verses mean?

[Didymus Much]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

...What do you think these verses mean?

Oh, just a little bit more of Christianity getting reality backwards.


I mean, many of the world's faith traditions look at women bringing ALL life into the world, and celebrate them for it. But the Abrahamic ones? Oh, no. GOD brings all life. Women (according to the Bible) brought not only death, but all sin. Without the existence of sin in the first place, all of the catastrophes described in the Bible (wars, plagues, the Flood <--- yuge calamity, all of humanity [less seven] in that one, hell of a record, never. been. beaten. since.) needn't have happened. Nor would the world need destroying (as per Revelation). All pointless without women's contribution to the world. Which isn't life, but disease, sin, evil, and death.


But you weren't asking me, were you?

[Princess L]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

This is getting boring. I provide substantial, clear scriptural references, and you lot keep harping on your views. I think I would get more reasonable discourse from a wall than from you all.

I find it fascinating that I can show clear examples about the difference between salvation and justification, and you simply ignore them and fall back to base attacks and the same mantras you've been touting all along. I do not appreciate your arrogance and rudeness, which is unbefitting of those who claim to be Children of God.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

............................yap................... .yap.........yappity.....yap.

Dear Miss,
Could you please use just one verse from the Holy Bible (KJV1611).


YIC
TT
P.S. Do you have any sisters?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

This is getting boring. I provide substantial, clear scriptural references, and you lot keep harping on your views. I think I would get more reasonable discourse from a wall than from you all.

I find it fascinating that I can show clear examples about the difference between salvation and justification, and you simply ignore them and fall back to base attacks and the same mantras you've been touting all along. I do not appreciate your arrogance and rudeness, which is unbefitting of those who claim to be Children of God.

GENESIS 2 mentions many things which God created:

the earth and the heavens
every plant of the field
every herb
every tree
rivers
gold
bdellium
onyx
Ethiopia
Assyria
every beast of the field
every fowl of the air

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

No mention of any woman

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

This help meet for Adam was intended to be an animal.

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Adam checked out all the animals, gave them their names.–.but sadly none of them were quite suitable as an help meet for him, however useful they may have been in their way for pulling carts or something.–.and God had to come up with an alternative.

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

What would God do? His FIRST CHOICE for an help, meet for Adam, didn't work out.—.and before any atheists or wiccans or EMO darkwave worshippers get onto their usual theme of "so your God doesn't know what He's doing" I will point out that God knows EXACTLY what he is doing and this historical account shows us just how much God cares for His creation, which at this stage didn't include any women. God wanted Adam to be happy with his mate. He didn't just plonk down a hippopotamus and say

OK ADAM, HERE'S YOUR HELPER

but presented every animal and every bird for Adam's evaluation. That's how wonderful our God.—.the only God.—.really is!

And of course God did do something, although very much a PLAN B.

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Just as with the animals.—.The Bible presents God's first priority as getting the animals named and seeing if there was a suitable mate for Adam among them.—.Adam named this new thing.

GENESIS 2 . KJV . look up
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
23 And Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

It is easy for us to say now, with the benefit of hindsight, that Adam would probably have been better off with the hippopotamus given how things turned out in Chapter 3 but God is not a deranged autocrat handing down arbitrary resolutions such as animal names or which one was best to mate with Adam. God's creation was PERFECT. It is not perfect now.

Did God ever intend to create Eve? I don't know. But woman was not God's first choice as a companion animal for Man.

The Bible is very clear that men can sell their daughters whenever they feel like it; God explains how to go about that. There are threads on these subjects so I won't post the scripture here. God is PERFECT. He knows what His plan is and has commanded that we do follow secular laws in the countries where we live. Naturally we do what He commands.

No-one has to accept what The Bible says although The Bible tells us that they deserve to be killed if they don't. God's message is clear. The Bible is not 50% true, or 87.5% true or even 99% true. The Bible is 100% TRUE. It is The Word of God; and to reject any part of it is to reject God. Christians do NOT reject God, even though we don't know what His plan is. That is not me saying that. It is God.

MATTHEW 24 . KJV . look up
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

[Princess L]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Dear Miss,
Could you please use just one verse from the Holy Bible (KJV1611).


YIC
TT
P.S. Do you have any sisters?

Point in fact. And fyi, go back and actually read my previous posts. I've used dozens.



Mitza also doesn't seem to understand that just because the Bible is the flawless word of God, your interpretations of it aren't necessarily true. I have not been pointing out contradictions in the Bible, but in your own dogmas.

[Michael Hezekiah Esq]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Princess,


If we could, let's take God out of the picture for a second and talk about it in more humanist, secular terms. I have recently embraced secular pluralism and have found that I have no need for an organized religion in order for my mind to feel free. I am formerly a practicing Jew who became a Christian, explored Christianity and then was lovingly accepted by the Rastafarians.


I was drawn to Mormonism for a time (about 2 weeks) but I just can't wrap my mind around some of their more idiotic statements. I thought about atheism, but in a sense, I think being against theism is not a kind way to live. I choose not to be against anything.


Let us not be concerned with what happens after life's journey. Rather, let us be concerned with this moment - for it is all we have. Let us be concerned with any future moments we are granted, and make sure those are filled with laughter and loving kindness. Let us not despise each other's diversity, but rather let us celebrate those things which make us different. My, what a boring world we would live in if everyone believed the same way!


The people of Landover are kind and hold fast to their beliefs. I celebrate that, as I am sure they will celebrate my decision to follow all faiths, not just one; they will support me because I do not jeer or point or make fun of them as some have. (That makes me sad)


So, Princess - perhaps you, too, can just let go of the baggage you're carrying and start seeing the good in ALL men. Instead of beating your head against a wall to prove something, what if - just what if - you said, "I celebrate you, even though we disagree."


However we got here, and whatever our fate may be, I believe the bonds of acceptance are too strong for any evil to break.


Let us coexist!

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

let go of the baggage you're carrying

I can't help but see in your words how blown thither you have been by the winds of vicissitude. There is no concept of co-existence in any of God's words. If there were you'd quote them. The baggage you see draped around others is your own. The heavy burden is your denial of God and your frequent turns are a response to His voice.

You may try to normalise your own destruction by encouraging others into your nightmare but God has made a way to leave that dreadful place behind. At every step you have been challenged, whether or not The Truth has been your objective, for you to see it is God's calling. He does not call everyone. The path of those He has called is not broad and smooth. There are obstacles to surmount and challenges along the narrow path but The Prince Of Peace makes sure that we, and you if He is calling you but if He's not then it's the city of Destruction and everlasting torment no matter where you seek and there's nothing you can do about it, that those who love Him make it through.

•

There are many who think they're following God but they're not. Well, you don't come into that category do you. And now you're a secularist. Would you describe yourself as a hot or lukewarm secularist?

REVELATION 3 . KJV . look up
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

[Michael Hezekiah Esq]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Thank you, my darling Mitza, for celebrating my post through honoring it with a reply. The cosmos is flowing between us, always uniting us when necessary or separating us to prevent unhealthy storms. You see, Ma'am, I believe we are the victims of our belief systems, and I choose to no longer be a victim. By embracing that statement with dedication and steadfastness, I have released my energies rather than holding them captive. I have set myself free by setting my mind free. You can, too.


I think you and I should go on a date. As you know I am a man of means and can fly to you or you to me at my expense. You have a unique perspective of the world, one that is far more intellectual than your Landover counterparts.


I invite you to free your hidden love-lights, your covered-up joy bells, and your buried orgasmic pleasures by accepting the universe into your mind; refuse to judge or disdain any man or his way of life; refuse to criticize or demonize things that may differ from your experience thus far. Great things await the free spirit!


Yours,
Mike H

[Alvin Moss]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Great things await the free spirit!

Yeah boy! Fire, molten sulfur, imps with sharp objects and all kinds of great things await.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: God Hates Asexuals

Please try to stay on topic. I do not have any trouble arranging air travel when necessary.

Are you suggesting in contradiction to your most recently espoused fancy that the human mind is not part of the universe already? If consciousness emerges from brains, as the secularist must have it, and brains are made of atoms then humans minds are simply the conscious part of a self-aware universe. For such consciousness to exist surely our minds are already infused with the cosmos, there being no discontinuity at the atomic level from the air we breathe to the membranes of the lungs to the pyramidal cells which I must say seem rather overactive in some cases. Or take a magnetic image, I believe these are available. The geomagnetic field would be entirely continuous with the field surrounding the nervous system just as with the solar or Galactic magnetic fields.

I am not advocating such a model you understand but this is the sort of rubbish I hear from hard secularists. I don't think that describes you: you've only been a secularist for a day, is it? These atomic arrangements, they say, and these vast magnetic fields are like pigments in a picture of immense beauty. A self aware picture knowing.–.because we know.–.that not all of itself is visible to every eye comprising it.

Even though it is a single conscious entity we remain intact as individuals. Well then if we are intact as individuals surely we must accept friends as other selves and co-operate fully in the immediacy of our experience. To be other however is not sufficient to be a friend. Jesus keeps us focused on the task He has for us, to preach the Gospel to all creatures before the last day. That involves dissociating ourselves from the world and from people who spout different ideas than The Truth preserved for us in The Bible. These are not our friends and may look forward to torment, tooth gnashing and brimstone.

PROVERBS 14 . KJV . whole chapter
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man but the end thereof are the ways of death
13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful and the end of that mirth is heaviness
14a The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways