[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings “Grandma” and Mary, and Greetings again Alan (two Posts)

You same you've come from AUSTRIA? Oh dear. Perhaps if you read our many tips here you can be rehabilitated! Why do you need to be rehabilitated you say?

God hates Austria!

Why, they even have the flag of the Brits in it!

Not sure if you were a bit tipsy when you wrote this Post. You seem to get Austria and Australia mixed, and then you gave a picture of the New Zealand flag. BTW NZ is in the process of changing their flag, but they will still remain in the British Commonwealth of nations.

Trevor, I like you, but I would encourage you to stop the whining. It's not very masculine behavior.

I appreciate the advice and will attempt to be more positive, but I still feel the need to state what I find inappropriate or wrong.

Jesus may not have had the authority to promise a place at His right hand, which it seems can only be occupied by one person. However, He does have the authority to promise a place on His own/ His Father's throne, which has enough sitting room for Jesus, His Father, and every True Christian™ who has ever lived. I'm sure it will be quite cozy.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

My understanding is that Revelation 3:21 is talking concerning when Jesus returns to sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem during the 1000 years.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 1:30-32 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I notice now the forum agrees with your view, because your status has now changed in the last few days from “Alan Sparrows is a True Christian™” to “Alan Sparrows is veritably a saint destined for a place in heaven near Jesus’ right hand”. This must give you a warm feeling, but despite your rapid progress in elevation and recognition you do not match the status of the other three forum members that you quoted. Also please explain True Christian™, which you have now used. Can you trade mark and market the expression "True Christian"? Are you blokes "fair dinkum" – you may need an Austrian, rather Australian Dictionary to find this expression.

How do you know you're really saved, Trevor? How do you know you're not deceived?

I will be happy to await Jesus’ verdict on this, not the estimation of a few members of this forum.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 1:1-2 (KJV): Blessed is the man
that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in his law doth he meditate day and night.


Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

My understanding is that Revelation 3:21 is talking concerning when Jesus returns to sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem during the 1000 years....

I notice now the forum agrees with your view, because your status has now changed in the last few days from “Alan Sparrows is a True Christian™” to “Alan Sparrows is veritably a saint destined for a place in heaven near Jesus’ right hand”. This must give you a warm feeling, but despite your rapid progress in elevation and recognition you do not match the status of the other three forum members that you quoted.

It's Swallows, not Sparrows, if you don't mind, and I don't understand your obsession over where we'll all sit in the heavenly kingdom.

As I understand it, "X is a True Christian™/ veritably a saint/ will sit at the right hand of Jesus" reflects someone's reputation level. If you hover over someone's rep bar on a secular forum you might find a comment like "X has a reputation beyond repute."

But why would I or Pastor Ezekiel or Brother Elmer or Bathfire be satisfied with a place at Jesus' right hand when we can all sit with Him on His throne?

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne...

Jesus' throne is His Father's throne.

Revelation 3:21 cont'd: ...even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus' throne is also at the right hand of the Father.

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus' throne is David's throne.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.

We're already sitting with Jesus.

Ephesians 2:5-6: 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heaven places in Christ Jesus.

To sum up, Jesus promised every Christian is sitting/ will sit with Him, King David and God the Father on their throne at the right hand of the Father -- every Christian, that is, except for the apostles, who will have their own thrones.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Okay, we get it! Will you drop it now? Do you always take everything so seriously? Talk about straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel! You should be more worried about where you'll be when we're all physically sitting on the great throne we're already spiritually sitting on.

I will be happy to await Jesus’ verdict on this, not the estimation of a few members of this forum.

The judgement of a few Christians matters a great deal.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

First Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
First Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
First Corinthians 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan,

It's Swallows, not Sparrows, if you don't mind

I apologise. I was placing my mouse over the rectangles, but did not copy your name correctly. This prompted the thought, that if you dislike using reference books, how would you understand some of the Biblical names that have a specific meaning in Hebrew, but are not translated for us? Also Psalm 110:1(KJV) distinguishes two different Hebrew words, printing the Name of God as LORD, and David’s Lord as Lord. Do you accept this distinction or consider these as only the English word “Lord”? You are now accredited with four years of Bible College, but surely part of the studies involved using reference books.

I don't understand your obsession over where we'll all sit in the heavenly kingdom.

But I am condemned by this forum, while you and others are elevated, but I am reminded of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne...
Jesus' throne is His Father's throne.
Revelation 3:21 cont'd: ...even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Jesus' throne is also at the right hand of the Father.
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Jesus' throne is David's throne.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Okay, we get it! Will you drop it now? Do you always take everything so seriously? Talk about straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel! You should be more worried about where you'll be when we're all physically sitting on the great throne we're already spiritually sitting on.

At first you are saying Jesus is sitting already on David’s throne and then after Matthew 19:28 you seem to be half agreeing with me. I disagree strongly that Jesus is now sitting on the Throne of David. God’s throne is in heaven, David’s throne was in Jerusalem and is to be restored again at Christ’s coming.

The apostles preached the gospel concerning the things of the kingdom and the name Acts 8:5,12, and as such the subject is important, part of the heart of the apostolic gospel. This is one area that was corrupted after the time of the Apostles and some of the false traditions of the Apostate Church are maintained today.

You quoted to me in an earlier Post 2 Timothy 4:3
2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV): For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

But what you seem to be teaching, and also what most of the modern Churches teach, ignores the clear teaching and hope of Paul that is taught on either side of this passage.
2 Timothy 4:1,7-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
This was the focus of Paul’s expectations, the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth and his participation in this at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is a sample of Peter’s preaching:
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Peter directs our attention to the return of Jesus and what will then be accomplished upon the earth, and he states that this is the subject matter spoken by all God’s holy prophets.

Perhaps the clearest outline of the sequence is given in Daniel 2 which depicts four successive world empires, and the fourth then breaking up into weak and strong nations. It is at this time the kingdoms of men are replaced by the kingdom of God, and fills the whole earth.
Daniel 2:35 (KJV): Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Daniel 2:44 (KJV): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

There are many other prophecies that could be quoted. I have already mentioned Isaiah 2:1-4 which is the major opening vision of the book of Isaiah, and many other parts of Isaiah and other prophets in effect fill out the detail of the fulfillment of this vision. Acts 3:19-21 mentions “times of refreshing” and Psalm 72 and Isaiah 35 could be considered.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Psalm 72 - The Coming New World Order Soon to be Established on Earth

Psalm 72 (KJV - with headings added)
A Psalm for Solomon

The King's Son
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king’s son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

The Blessings of His Reign
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

A World-Wide Kingdom
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

The Nations Pay Homage
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

The Earth Bountiful
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

The Whole World Filled with His Glory
18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

This final public prayer of David, although addressed to Solomon, looks beyond his time to the greater son of David, Jesus Christ, who will return to establish his kingdom on earth, replacing the present kingdoms of men Daniel 2:44.

Luke records the words that Gabriel spoke to Mary concerning Jesus' future rule
Luke 1:32-33 (KJV): 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Jesus will reign over the "house of Jacob" when he returns and "turns away ungodliness from Jacob" Romans 11:26.

The promises made to David concerning his son and David's throne are recorded in 2 Samuel 7:12-16. They state also that God would be his Father, and this is shown in its fulfillment in Luke 1:35, Jesus is the Son of God. This is the qualification for Jesus to be heir over God's dominion, God's kingdom, not only because he is God's Son by birth, but also he revealed all the qualities of God's wisdom and love during his ministry, suffering and crucifixion. These qualities now coupled with all that he has received in his resurrection and exaltation are what is needed to fulfil Psalm 72 in the Coming New World Order Genesis 1:26, Psalm 8:6, Isaiah 2:1-4, 6:1-7, Matthew 11:25-30, 21:37-38, 42-44, Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor

Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

This prompted the thought, that if you dislike using reference books, how would you understand some of the Biblical names that have a specific meaning in Hebrew, but are not translated for us?

When it's important, the Bible translates it for us.

Number 11:34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

But I am condemned by this forum, while you and others are elevated, but I am reminded of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Yeah, you remind of the rich man in the parable too. You'd better hear Moses and the prophets before it's too late (Luke 16:31).

I disagree strongly that Jesus is now sitting on the Throne of David. God’s throne is in heaven, David’s throne was in Jerusalem and is to be restored again at Christ’s coming.

Wrong again! Jesus has been sitting on David's throne ever since He rose from the dead.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Jesus won't begin to rule when He returns. When He returns He will hand over the kingdom He has already been ruling to the Father.

First Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
First Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
First Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
First Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
First Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

David's throne will endure forever. As Nathan promised David:

Second Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

How can David's throne last forever if it's in Jerusalem, which will be destroyed by fire with the rest of the world when Jesus comes back?

Second Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

I'm encouraged to see you crying out to God so earnestly. If there is anyone who can open your eyes and soften your heart to the truth, it's the God who hardened your heart and blinded you to the truth in the first place. God can deceive you, but He is also the only one who can reveal to you the truth. Trust in Him!

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan,

Wrong again! Jesus has been sitting on David's throne ever since He rose from the dead.
Jesus won't begin to rule when He returns. When He returns He will hand over the kingdom He has already been ruling to the Father.
How can David's throne last forever if it's in Jerusalem, which will be destroyed by fire with the rest of the world when Jesus comes back?

The following passage does not teach that Jesus is going to burn up the earth when he returns. It speaks of refreshing and restoration.
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
It appears that you do not believe in the Millenium.

I'm encouraged to see you crying out to God so earnestly. If there is anyone who can open your eyes and soften your heart to the truth, it's the God who hardened your heart and blinded you to the truth in the first place. God can deceive you, but He is also the only one who can reveal to you the truth. Trust in Him!

I added this quotation to counteract the imputation by the addition of Psalm 38:5 by someone with Administrative Ability. I discussed these additions in one Post and discussed Psalm 38 and its context. Yes, I can align some of my thoughts with the experience of David, but he and especially Jesus are the greater examples in this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Grandma]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings “Grandma” and Mary, and Greetings again Alan (two Posts)

Not sure if you were a bit tipsy when you wrote this Post. You seem to get Austria and Australia mixed, and then you gave a picture of the New Zealand flag. BTW NZ is in the process of changing their flag, but they will still remain in the British Commonwealth of nations.

No! I do not fall for liebral Ozzy lies! I am far older than you! As I am older, you shall respect me! As a mean ancient grandma, I know my facts.

I've never heard of this Jew Zealand. Is this some fantasy land you were lied to about in public Godless school?

And it seems you're a mongoloid. You don't even know about your own country! You're going to go to hell, retard.
Romans 1:19-21 “For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”

I will teach you about your country which you don't know anything about.

Austria is a country located near Chinka.
Austria is located here:


This is Austria's flag:

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan,
The following passage does not teach that Jesus is going to burn up the earth when he returns. It speaks of refreshing and restoration. ...It appears that you do not believe in the Millenium.

Trevor, Trevor, Trevor. You're doing it again. You're elevating some parts of Scripture over others, and when you do this, you make the Bible look like it's contradicting itself.

Now of course I believe in the Millennium. It's in the Bible. But the Bible also teaches Jesus is reigning now on David's throne. I already quoted the relevant passages, so I won't quote them again.

No reference book I know of can explain how Jesus will reign on the earth after He has destroyed it by fire. So you're stuck. You need the Holy Spirit to understand it, but He seems to be busy hiding the truth from you at the moment.

Second Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan,
The following passage does not teach that Jesus is going to burn up the earth when he returns. It speaks of refreshing and restoration.
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The "refreshing and restoration" that you mention includes the destruction of the currently existing earth (as already explained by Brother Alan) and creation of a new one:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I understand that this is a different meaning of restoration from what we humans are used to, but as the story of the Flood shows, God doesn't have the patience to actually restore something, He prefers to destroy it completely and make a new one. Destruction of a planet and creation of a new one (one that is habitable yet does not have any seas) might seem impossible from our point of view, but (as the Book of Genesis teaches us) God can certainly do it within a few days.

I hope that was helpful, dear.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan, Basilissa and Grandma,

When it's important, the Bible translates it for us.
Number 11:34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

This is an interesting example, but it would be clearer to someone who reads Hebrew or uses a reference book. Similarly the following does not tell us exactly the full meaning of the name JESUS, even though it is connected with “he shall save his people from their sins”. Without looking at some reference book, what is the derivation or meaning of the word Jesus? Is it Greek or Hebrew in origin?
Matthew 1:21 (KJV): And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Trevor, Trevor, Trevor. You're doing it again. You're elevating some parts of Scripture over others, and when you do this, you make the Bible look like it's contradicting itself.

Now of course I believe in the Millennium. It's in the Bible. But the Bible also teaches Jesus is reigning now on David's throne. I already quoted the relevant passages, so I won't quote them again.

No reference book I know of can explain how Jesus will reign on the earth after He has destroyed it by fire. So you're stuck. You need the Holy Spirit to understand it, but He seems to be busy hiding the truth from you at the moment.

Second Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I have no problem reconciling Acts 3:19-21 with 2 Peter 3:10. Could you explain Acts 3:19-21 and also such prophecies as Daniel 2, Psalm 72 and Isaiah 2:1-4? Are all of these after the earth is destroyed by fire?

The "refreshing and restoration" that you mention includes the destruction of the currently existing earth (as already explained by Brother Alan) and creation of a new one:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I understand that this is a different meaning of restoration from what we humans are used to, but as the story of the Flood shows, God doesn't have the patience to actually restore something, He prefers to destroy it completely and make a new one. Destruction of a planet and creation of a new one (one that is habitable yet does not have any seas) might seem impossible from our point of view, but (as the Book of Genesis teaches us) God can certainly do it within a few days.

I hope that was helpful, dear.

I am not sure if Alan would endorse your explanation. How will the nations survive and beat their swords into plough-shares if they and the earth is destroyed by fire, Isaiah 2:1-4?

No! I do not fall for liebral Ozzy lies! I am far older than you! As I am older, you shall respect me! As a mean ancient grandma, I know my facts.

Congratulations on your progress from “Unsaved Trash – Under Investigation” (when you first posted on this thread) to “Forum Member”. It seems from the quality of your two Posts that you deserve this recognition, reflecting the quality and standards of this forum. I am not sure that you are older, as my avatar is an Identity Fraud placed there by someone with Administrative Ability. I am older and uglier than the avatar. I find the rest of your Post rude, abusive and incoherent, unfitting for a person of your age. It is too cold to live in Antarctica.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

I am not sure if Alan would endorse your explanation. How will the nations survive and beat their swords into plough-shares if they and the earth is destroyed by fire, Isaiah 2:1-4?

I don't see any contradiction between Isaiah 2:4, Revelation 21:1, and 2 Peter 3:10. Do you really think that God cannot destroy the entire earth (with fire) while keeping people and their spears and swords intact? Aren't you forgetting that God created the laws of physics and thus doesn't have to obey them?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Congratulations on your progress from “Unsaved Trash – Under Investigation” (when you first posted on this thread) to “Forum Member”. It seems from the quality of your two Posts that you deserve this recognition, reflecting the quality and standards of this forum. I am not sure that you are older, as my avatar is an Identity Fraud placed there by someone with Administrative Ability. I am older and uglier than the avatar. I find the rest of your Post rude, abusive and incoherent, unfitting for a person of your age. It is too cold to live in Antarctica.

Grandma may be a barren, old lady, but she is still a member of this esteemed forum, and you will show members respect if you wish to maintain your posting privileges.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Basilissa and Alan,

I don't see any contradiction between Isaiah 2:4, Revelation 21:1, and 2 Peter 3:10. Do you really think that God cannot destroy the entire earth (with fire) while keeping people and their spears and swords intact? Aren't you forgetting that God created the laws of physics and thus doesn't have to obey them?

The problem with such a view is that there are many OT prophecies that describe the events of the Latter Days that indicate a period of transition from the present to the Kingdom of God. Zechariah 14 is an example where nations fight against Jerusalem and then Jesus intervenes and establishes the Kingdom. Ezekiel 36-39 also is parallel to these events and speaks of the return of the Jews to the land before a northern invasion and with a similar outcome, the establishment of the Kingdom of God.

Now Alan stated the following, and in support quoted 1 Corinthians 15:21-25:

Jesus won't begin to rule when He returns. When He returns He will hand over the kingdom He has already been ruling to the Father.

First Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
First Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
First Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
First Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
First Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

But Alan stopped short of quoting the next verse:
1 Corinthians 15:26 (KJV): The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
But this did not suit Alan’s overall view, or perhaps he chooses to ignore the fact that Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 65 speak of the Kingdom of God, and teaches that there will be sin during the 1000 years, and there will be death.

Isaiah 65:17-20 (KJV): 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Zechariah 14:16-17 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

And notice the language of Isaiah, “I create new heavens and a new earth”. This is not speaking of a literal destruction of the earth and heaven, but a replacing the present kingdoms of men with the Kingdom of God. It is figurative language. Similarly burning up the earth, is figurative representing the destruction of the things of this era, and the establishing of what will endure the fire. The figure is based on the Altar of Burnt Offering.

Wrong again! Jesus has been sitting on David's throne ever since He rose from the dead.

You then quote Acts 2:29-35, but these verses also speak concerning David:
Acts 2:29 (KJV): Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 (KJV): For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Seeing that you are in the funeral business, could I ask if you comfort the relatives by saying that the dear departed are now seated with Jesus in glory? In the light of Acts 2:29,34 where is David now?

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Now Alan stated the following, and in support quoted 1 Corinthians 15:21-25:
But Alan stopped short of quoting the next verse:
1 Corinthians 15:26 (KJV): The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
But this did not suit Alan’s overall view, or perhaps he chooses to ignore the fact that Zechariah 14 and Isaiah 65 speak of the Kingdom of God, and teaches that there will be sin during the 1000 years, and there will be death.

My view on the matter is as consistent as God's word on the matter. Death will be destroyed when we receive our glorified bodies.

First Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
First Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
First Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Jesus will reign until death is defeated. Then He will hand the Kingdom over to His Father.

First Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
First Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
First Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

He can only reign until then if He is reigning now. Hebrews tells us He has been reigning since He purged our sins.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high...
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

This is completely consistent with Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After defeating death soundly, Jesus will hand the kingdom over to His Father and then take it back again to reign for a thousand years, after which He will give death a second thrashing, casting it into the lake of fire. So there will be two reigns of Christ (from His ascension to His return and from His return for 1,000 years) and two resurrections. Not to mention He has to destroy the earth by fire somewhere in there. I won't pretend to know how it will all work. I'll take it on faith. I think we'll find out soon enough.

So why didn't Paul mention a second resurrection and a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth? Isn't God's word the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? It certainly is (John 17:17). But sometimes the Bible tells the truth by omission. In the Gospels, for instance, we sometimes find details left out of accounts describing the same event. I think Paul would have been pretty confident his audience would live long enough for John to write Revelation and fill them in on everything else they needed to know. The writing of the Bible was a team effort. There was no need for any one man to try to be a hero and write down every single detail himself.

And notice the language of Isaiah, “I create new heavens and a new earth”. This is not speaking of a literal destruction of the earth and heaven, but a replacing the present kingdoms of men with the Kingdom of God. It is figurative language. Similarly burning up the earth, is figurative representing the destruction of the things of this era, and the establishing of what will endure the fire.

Figurative? So you think the Bible doesn't really mean what it says! Peter compares the destruction of the earth with fire to the destruction of the earth with water during the great flood, which we all know was an actual historical event.

First Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
First Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
First Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
First Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
First Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
First Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Would you have us believe God drowned all the men and women and children in the world with figurative water? That He had Noah build an ark to save himself and his family and the animals from figurative water? Do you think those shut out of the ark would have said, "Head for the hills! The figurative water is rising fast!"

The figure is based on the Altar of Burnt Offering.

I suppose you think the priests burned the carcasses with figurative fire.

Seeing that you are in the funeral business, could I ask if you comfort the relatives by saying that the dear departed are now seated with Jesus in glory?

That depends whether the deceased was a Christian. I have no problem telling the family of an unsaved person their loved one is in torment and would give anything for them not to make the same mistake they did (Luke 16:19-31). However, I comfort Christian families with the knowledge that their loved one is with the Lord and rebuke them if think they are grieving too hard (First Thessalonians 4:13).

You don't have to wait until you're dead to be seated with Jesus in glory. I'm already seated with Him.

Ephesians 2:5-6: 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

In the light of Acts 2:29,34 where is David now?

When a Christian dies he goes to be with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better.

David is in heaven, like Abraham (Luke 16:19-31).

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Alan,

I appreciate your reply, but I do not appreciate the Icon and message that you placed at the heading. I consider the symbol of the “cross” as the symbol of the corrupt Catholic Church and all that subscribe to many of their wrong doctrines. It reminds me of the Inquisition and the persecution of the faithful whose blood was poured out at the Christ Altar crying out for vengeance against a corrupt Church. Tyndale was one of these persecuted by the Church.

My view on the matter is as consistent as God's word on the matter. Death will be destroyed when we receive our glorified bodies.

Yes, death will be destroyed in us when we are changed from mortal to immortal, but there will be mortals who survive Armageddon and the judgements of that time Isaiah 2:1-4, 65:17-20, Zechariah 14 . They and their descendants will die during the 1000 years, and death will only be destroyed at the end of the 1000 years.

After defeating death soundly, Jesus will hand the kingdom over to His Father and then take it back again to reign for a thousand years, after which He will give death a second thrashing, casting it into the lake of fire. So there will be two reigns of Christ (from His ascension to His return and from His return for 1,000 years) and two resurrections. Not to mention He has to destroy the earth by fire somewhere in there. I won't pretend to know how it will all work. I'll take it on faith. I think we'll find out soon enough.

Jesus will not hand the kingdom back to the Father at his return. This is when he begins his reign on earth for 1000 years.

This and the rest of your response seem to be a mixture of two theologies. There was a replacement of the Apostolic teaching concerning the Millennium with the concept that the Church was the Kingdom of God. Later Augustine, when Rome was overrun, wrote the City of God and again the Church was equated with the Kingdom of God, suppressing the understanding of the Millennium.

In the Encyclopædia Britannica 14th edn., the article on The Millennium by A. Harnack traces the change by which "Chiliasm" (belief in the 1000 year reign of Christ) was gradually excluded from the teaching of the church, and the doctrine that the church itself was God's kingdom established in its place. The following extract illustrates this change:
"Faith in the nearness of Christ's second advent and the establishing of his reign of glory on the earth was undoubtedly a strong point in the primitive Christian Church . . . The earlier fathers, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian, believed in Chiliasm simply because it was a part of the tradition of the Church and because Marcion and the Gnostics would have nothing to do with this conception. It is the same all through the 3rd and 4th centuries with those Latin theologians who escaped the influence of Greek speculation . . . These facts show how vigorously the early hopes of the future maintained themselves in the West . . . This state of matters, however, gradually disappeared after the end of the 4th century. The change was brought about by two causes -- first, Greek theology, which reached the West chiefly through Jerome, Rufinus and Ambrose, and second the new idea of the Church wrought out by Augustine on the basis of the altered political situation of the Church. Augustine was the first who ventured to teach that the Catholic Church in its empirical form, was the kingdom of Christ, that the millennial kingdom had commenced with the appearing of Christ, and was therefore an accomplished fact. By this doctrine of Augustine's the old millenarianism, though not completely extirpated, was at least banished from the official theology".

But sincere seekers of Biblical Truth on this subject came to a better understanding, and a rejection of the Augustine view:
In a book by WL Lumpkin “Baptist Confessions of Faith”, Revised Edition 1969, the following is Clause XXII of the Standard Confession of 1660:
“We believe that the same Lord Jesus who showed himself alive after his passion, by many infallible proofs, Acts 1:3 which was taken from the Disciples and carried up into Heaven Luke 24:51. Shall so come in like manner as he was seen go into Heaven, Acts 1:9–11. And when Christ who is our life shall appear, we shall also appear with him in glory, Col. 3:4. For then shall he be King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, Rev. 19:16, for the Kingdom is his, and he is the Governor among the Nations, Ps. 22:28, and King over all the earth, Zech. 14:9, and we shall reign (with him) on the Earth, Rev. 5:10, the Kingdoms of this World, (which men so mightily strive after how to enjoy) shall become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ, Rev. 11:15, for all is yours, (O ye that overcome this world) for ye are Christ’s and Christ is God’s, 1 Cor. 3:22, 23. For unto the Saints shall be given the Kingdoms, and the greatness of the Kingdom, under (mark that) the whole Heaven, Dan. 7:27. Though [alas] now many men be scarce content that the Saints should have so much as being among them; but when Christ shall appear, then shall be their day, then shall be given unto them power over the Nations, to rule them with a Rod of Iron, Rev. 2:26–27, then shall they receive a Crown of life, which no man shall take from them, nor they by any means turned or overturned from it, for the oppressor shall be broken in pieces, Ps. 72:4, and their now vain, rejoicings turned into mourning and bitter Lamentations, as it is written, Job. 20:5–7.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.