[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Jesus will not hand the kingdom back to the Father at his return. This is when he begins his reign on earth for 1000 years.

This and the rest of your response seem to be a mixture of two theologies. <<<Most of the post deleted for brevity>>>

Dear Trevor,

You know what I think? I think you're reading too many commentaries and that makes you overthink what the Bible really says.

Brother Alan is not mixing any theologies. He reads what the Bible says and repeats it, without adding anything to it. When you accuse him of being mixed up you accuse the Bible of being internally contradictory. Why would you want to do such a thing?

I will pray for you.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Basilissa,

You know what I think? I think you're reading too many commentaries and that makes you overthink what the Bible really says.

Brother Alan is not mixing any theologies. He reads what the Bible says and repeats it, without adding anything to it. When you accuse him of being mixed up you accuse the Bible of being internally contradictory. Why would you want to do such a thing?

I appreciate your comments and thoughts. The Bible is not internally contradictory, but with care and prayerful meditation the simple overall picture can be revealed. I am unaware of your and Alan’s environment, especially on the subject of prophecy and Christ’s returns and the Kingdom. You may or may not be aware that there are many schools of thought. To mention only a few, there are pre-millennial, post-millennial and a-millennial. All of these views claim support from reading of the Bible. For example, refer to your earlier Post, either the earth is going to be destroyed and burnt up when Christ returns OR his return will usher in a time of restoration and refreshing. I agree with the latter, and yes there will be “fiery” judgements associated with Christ’s coming, but the details are clearly seen in many prophecies.

To some extent it depends on what verses that you give the most weight, or position as a major building block. If we gave a child nine blocks to arrange as a jigsaw and complete a picture, hopefully the overall view and adjacent detail will help to establish a correct perspective and final result. The child could then progress to a 25-piece and eventually when older a 500-piece.

I do not know what school of thought predominates in your immediate community, but from my experience many Baptists have adopted the Augustine view and reject the Millennium. Another witness is the historian Edward Gibbon, who gives some indication of the change from the Millenium view to the view that was gradually adopted from Constantine onwards, and this view seems to be popular with some Baptists.
“The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ. As the works of creation had been finished in six days, their duration, in their present state, according to a tradition which was attributed to the prophet Elijah, was fixed to six thousand years. By the same analogy it was inferred that this long period of labor and contention, which was now almost elapsed (as they supposed), would be succeeded by a joyful Sabbath of a thousand years; and that Christ, with the triumphant band of the Saints and the elect who had escaped death, or who had been miraculously revived, would reign upon earth till the time appointed for the last and general resurrection. So pleasing was this hope to the minds of believers, that the New Jerusalem, the seat of this blissful kingdom, was quickly adorned with all the gayest colors of the imagination. A felicity consisting only of pure and spiritual pleasure would have appeared too refined for its inhabitants, who were still supposed to possess their human nature and senses. A garden of Eden with the amusements of pastoral life, was no longer suited to the advanced state of society which prevailed under the Roman Empire. A city was therefore erected, of gold and precious stones, and a supernatural plenty of corn and wine was bestowed on the adjacent territory; in the free enjoyment of whose spontaneous productions, the happy and benevolent people was never to be restrained by any jealous laws of exclusive property. The assurance of such a millennium was carefully inculcated by a succession of fathers, from Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who conversed with the immediate disciples of the apostles, down to Lactantius, who was preceptor to the son of Constantine. Though it might not be universally received, it appears to have been the reigning sentiment of the orthodox believers; and it seems so well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind, that it must have contributed in a very considerable degree to the progress of the Christian faith. But when the edifice of the church was almost completed, the temporary support was laid aside. The doctrine of Christ’s reign upon earth was at first treated as a profound allegory, was considered by degrees as a doubtful and useless opinion, and was at length rejected as the absurd invention of heresy and fanaticism. A mysterious prophecy (the Apocalypse) which still forms a part of the sacred canon, but which was thought to favor the exploded sentiment, has very narrowly escaped the proscription of THE CHURCH.”

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[BrotherLarry]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia



Is this still going on?

"Be still, and know that I am God." (Psalm 46:10)

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Dear Trevor,

I have read your reply with much attention, and I still think that you are overthinking it and reading way too many commentaries. I hope that will not prove to be detrimental for your health:

Ecclesiastes 12:12-13
12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


I think it is clear that God doesn't want us to read too much, and therefore to think too much. Just reading the Bible and obeying it is enough.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Greetings again Basilissa and others,

I have read your reply with much attention, and I still think that you are overthinking it and reading way too many commentaries. I hope that will not prove to be detrimental for your health:
Ecclesiastes 12:12-13 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
I think it is clear that God doesn't want us to read too much, and therefore to think too much. Just reading the Bible and obeying it is enough.

I appreciate your concern. Possibly you do not have Bible Classes where a speaker after the reading of a chapter seeks to explain the meaning. Our senior expositor is considering Isaiah, and he has about 5 classes per year and now is up to Isaiah 28. In preparation I read the chapter and also comments by other reliable expositors. Part of my responsibility as librarian is to mp3 record all the meetings, and together with slides make them available to older or sick members who cannot attend. I am also able to replay these talks for my own benefit. I suggest that most of the time we read, or hear a talk we gain only 10% of what we have considered. Hearing the second time improves this, depending on the detail.

This aspect of recording has awakened another interest or hobby, listening to other speakers. I have collected many talks including some on Isaiah, and these give added perspective and help gain a better understanding of each chapter. I collect mp3 talks from other sources and distribute these in our meeting. Before I wrote a brief Post on Psalm 1 I read my personal notes, listened to a talk by a speaker in 1970, and listened to a recent Baptist Pastor. In contrast to your and Alan’s advice this Pastor mentioned some thoughts from Adam Clarke, CS Lewis and CH Spurgeon, as well as giving a broad, simple oversight of the Psalm, with many personal touches that made his talk interesting. He spoke for 40 minutes, but a reading of Psalm 1 would only take 1 minute. I suggest that you would benefit by a closer consideration of a subject.

I have decided to have a rest from this thread and from this forum. When I first joined I prepared an article on Psalm 72 and I had hoped that this would be my first Post. Instead this forum is set up to require entry via “The introduction forum”. As a result I became involved in subjects such as KJV only and predestination. These are subjects that I had never seriously considered before but the few things that I stated was sufficient in my estimation. Even though it is outside the scope of this introduction forum I decided to Post the Psalm 72 article and this appears as Item #94 in this thread. I also enjoyed posting a few thoughts on Psalm 1, Item #89. No further response has been made on either of these Psalms.

Because of my different view on a number of subjects it was suggested that I should move on. This suggestion was possibly also prompted because of my abruptness on several occasions. I have not been very diplomatic, nor explained my position very clearly. I appreciate the opportunity to have met some interesting people even though we have not been able to agree on many things.

Alan and Basilissa, you have been relatively patient with me. Alan, I am a little offended by your Funeral Service advertisement. As I am destined to burn in hell forever in the estimation of this forum, then I do not qualify to be buried by you. Reckoning from my age and health that could be soon. I would be happy to lie in the grave, even an unmarked grave, awaiting the resurrection call at the return of Jesus. If accepted, then to participate in the 1000 years reign of Jesus when he sits upon the throne of David in Jerusalem. If I am rejected at the judgement seat, to accept my fate to suffer the equivalent of destruction in Gehenna, the Valley of Hinnon. This was the rubbish heap outside Jerusalem, where the fire was not quenched or the worms did not cease until the bodies were destroyed. If this is my destiny, exactly what circumstances is not directly revealed, but my body and life will be consumed, and I will suffer the second death, a complete cessation of being. I worship a merciful and yet just God. He does not torture forever.

If I had been admitted to the forum, I would have liked to possibly make a few comments on some existing threads, hopefully in a constructive manner. Some of the subjects that I would have liked to start were Psalm 8, Isaiah 6, some aspects of Galatians including the connection between the land promise (not heaven going) to Abraham Genesis 13:14-15 and Galatians 3:8,16,26-29. Regarding prophecy the subject of the King of the North in Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 is relevant to today. My belief is that this king is Russia, and that the future indication of his role will be more evident when he invades Turkey, some time before moving down into the Middle East. The problems in Syria and the Russian involvement could be some indication of the start of these events.

Brief mention was made of the seraphim in Isaiah 6, and I asked did anyone have a suggestion on the wings covering face, feet and flying. My understanding of this is that these things are tentatively fulfilled in Jesus in John 12, and completely fulfilled in some of his sayings and events as revealed later in John’s gospel. I will leave you to determine the detail. What was accomplished in Jesus is revealed and the call goes out for our voluntary submission to the righteousness of God in the gospel of the kingdom and name. Perhaps you may like to consider these things.

Kind regards
Trevor

Psalm 38:15, 21-22 (KJV): 15 For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God. 21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me. 22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

[I Man Rastafari]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Trevor you seem to be of the Fidel Castro school of public speaking. All the communists in my home country which is Jamaica like to give long speeches like he used to. I have followed your long and endlessly twisting monologues for some time now as part of my study of white people. I have a number of white girls that I am studying here at my school and so I see that there are different kinds of white girls. Also these fine Christians here are different one from another in some ways and they have helped my study immensely. My dilemma is that you are the only white man who drones on like you do that I am able to study. Are other white men like you or are singular? Are all white men from Australia like you? What did you do with the Black people who really own Australia?

Jah Guide
Trevor

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

I will suffer the second death, a complete cessation of being.

The second death is not a complete cessation of being. It is a state of eternal torment.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

My last post was made from my phone while I was in the hearse on the way to the cemetery. I now have a chance to provide you with a full list of Scriptures proving that hell is eternal.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Second Thessalonians 1:7-9: 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 12-13: 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Do you doubt the meaning of "for ever and ever" in Revelation 5:13: And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The fires of hell are unquenchable.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Why would God keep the fires of hell burning for eternity if the wicked will cease to be? God is not wasteful, you know.

Anyway, you say you are moving on from these forums. I will not bid you Godspeed, I will just leave you with the words of the apostle John.

Second John 10-11: 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Possibly you do not have Bible Classes where a speaker after the reading of a chapter seeks to explain the meaning.

Now this has me very confused: the meaning of the Bible(KJV1611) is the literal reading.

Does Leviticus 20:13 not mean that the gaywise should be out to death?

Does 1 John 3:5 not mean that Jesus is free of sin?

Does Mathew 27:46 not mean that Jesus cried out to Himself asking if He had forsaken Himself about nine hours after been put on the cross?

None of that requires somebody to tell YOU what to think! Indeed, Jesus does not want us to think at all!

Matthew 6:25 "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"

You have some nerve trying to force True Christians™ to think about the Bible(KJV1611)

It's thinking too much about the Bible(KJV1611) that drives people away from Christianinty in droves

YIC