[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Who is this Al person anyway and what has he got to do with us?

Artificial intelligence. Look at the link I provided; here's another good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6UVOQ0F44

[Basilissa]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Again: empathy is the key here. A machine can be a replacement for a data scientist, never for a sales rep. Research into this topic, learn why, and then come back.

Again, the key thing here is that the machine will do, order or develop anything, ANYTHING, to achieve its goals. Be that develop empathy or "order "Thou shall not kill" while sending its people to kill all the neighbors", which is really just basic tribalistic behavior.

Hi, I admit that I know about AI next to nothing, but a quick google scholar search tells me that AI can be programmed to mimic empathy but cannot develop its own empathy.

I think you really should listen to Bro Gonzalez when he tells you to to back to school regarding this issue.

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Hi, I admit that I know about AI next to nothing, but a quick google scholar search tells me that AI can be programmed to mimic empathy but cannot develop its own empathy.

Weeel... this depends on what you think empathy is. If you think it has something to do with a soul, I have no evidence that an AI could have one. But current evidence suggests that empathy comes from certain types of Neurons in the brain that make you feel what you look at.


So, for example, if you see someone yawn, these "mirror neurons" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron) create activity in the part of your brain associated with yawning, generating a yawn. Or if you see someone sad, they create activity that generates a feeling of sadness.


If this is in fact how empathy works, then AIs could definitely develop empathy for themselves, not just something that is an imitation of it.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

An AI will worship a God if it thinks it necessary or complimentary to accomplishing its goals. Humans work like that too - we do things because we think it will make us happy, in the short or long term. You keep saying that humans are different from AI, but modern AI is just human thinking and brains refined and improved upon.






But think about it; that's how humans invent things. We try out different ideas, and when one works, we use it. Surely you can see this?






But an ASI will do everything in its power to prevent that from happening; because then it would be unable to accomplish its tasks. So "unplugging an AI" is easier said than done. Keep in mind that you're dealing with a thing that could probably convince you to kill everyone you love through conversation alone, never mind stop you from flipping a switch. Furthermore, it would upload itself everywhere, so that in case you did flip the switch, it would still be alive on some other computer somewhere.






Again, the key thing here is that the machine will do, order or develop anything, ANYTHING, to achieve its goals. Be that develop empathy or "order "Thou shall not kill" while sending its people to kill all the neighbors", which is really just basic tribalistic behavior.

And you just went full science fiction in this post. Or three posts before.
Basically you say that if AI does not worship a God is not because it can't, but because it does not serve its goal. You are making an assertion which cannot be proved.
Where do you get your info, Discovery Channel? AI and empathy is a topic well researched. If you choose to go to serious sources, you will see my point.
And no, Wikipedia and Quora are not serious sources. Neither is reddit, nor Antony blog that claims Python as a language of preference for AI.

Be serious, kid. You know about AI as about God, and that is why you cannot tell the difference between Science, AI, and Creation Science.


You still claim to know how the brain works. Please tell us all you know about that, with support from the Bible. If you do that, I am willing to continue this argument. If you fail to do so, consider this over.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

And you just went full science fiction in this post. Or three posts before.

The Mars nonsense did seem a bit like Jet Morgan, Journey into Space. These "futuristic" science fiction radio programs, originally from the 1950s, are periodically re-broadcast in England. My youngest children love them, and shriek with laughter at the absurdity.

[Vengeance Puriel]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

"Yea, It the AI does these things"


On a more serious note, an ASI would be able to do anything that is within the realms of possibility to accomplish whatever it thought would help it achieve its goal. Anything. So anything that is possible, is doable by ASI. Of course, you could say the same and some more for God but;


I'll give you a different analogy. Look at the following two numbers:
123456789012345678901234567890123456788000000
123456789012345678901234567890123456789000000
One number is bigger than the other, but does the difference seem significant? When looking at the size of the numbers, it seems minor. and yet the second number is 1,000,000 bigger than the first one.


The point here is that this is how ASI and God will appear to us (If God decides to show his face) - sure, there's a difference, but it will seem even more minor than in the example above in the face of the enormity of its/their power(s).

I'm sorry, but I'm very smart and even I have to say that your example of science and technology does not and will not ever disprove God, the Bible is 100 percent fact. If you can't see that then you are hellbound, repentance will be your saving grace, but time is short and yours is running out.

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

I'm not trying to disprove God *****Confused The Star War Technobable removed***** say I work on AI in my spare time?

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Come on. You don't have a counter to my point so you blank it out? How very mature of you. If you can't converse like a grown-up, we're done here.

[Thinks Design]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Come on. You don't have a counter to my point so you blank it out? How very mature of you. If you can't converse like a grown-up, we're done here.

I don't really follow science but what does your armchair musings have to do with the Christian faith?

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Not armchair musings, logical extrapolation (It has to do with the christian faith because AI could become almost as powerful as God. Also, it's interesting to discuss). Here it is, and hopefully this time someone can actually present a counter-point instead of simply deleting my post:



I'm not trying to disprove God (for the moment), we're just having a discussion about how powerful AI could get.

I get my knowledge of the brain from Neuroscience. But please note how I did not say "This is how the brain works, so AIs can do this", I said "If this is indeed how brains work, AIs can do this.".


Quote:
If this is in fact how empathy works, then AIs could definitely develop empathy for themselves

And this is not science fiction, it is logical extrapolation of fact. Allow me to demonstrate.


An AGI will be created when someone makes an AI that can identify and make an attempt at solving any problem it's presented with. Humans do this all the time (think about it, you give a human a problem he's never seen before and he can still do something to try and solve it). This is honestly the most science fiction part of this, and Google have already made good progress towards it with Alpha Zero (https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-...-shogi-and-go/), an AI which is like an AGI but for board games only - it can learn to play any board game without ever playing it before, just like a human can attempt to tackle any problem.


From here it becomes quite simple. The AGI can attempt to tackle any problem, but it has one advantage over humans: A very efficient learning algorithm that it can control. Hence when it is given a task, one of its first thoughts may be "I am not intelligent enough to come up with an optimal solution for this task" This is a problem. The AGI is built for problems. And so it will use the learning algorithm which is under its control to become smarter and smarter, until it has developed into an ASI, at which point it is capable of coming up with the optimal solution to any problem thrown at it.


Do you see now how the hard part is not creating an infinitely smart AI, only a slightly smart one which then develops itself into an infinitely smart one? Of course, when I say infinite I mean so large as to not matter from our perspective.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

I mean so large as to not matter from our perspective.

But nowhere near as powerful as God so your argument boils down to "AI's will get really clever".


Unless I've missed something?



Proverbs 15:3 "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good."


So you see, God has perfect information where as your silly machine has to learn in real time.


Jesus wins again!


YIC

[OutRider]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Well, here are a couple of scenarios where all this would matter;

God hasn't done anything on Earth for almost the past 2000 years at least, could it be that he has lost his power?


Satan supposedly fought a war against God and was a match for him; If Satan is a match for God, and AI could be a match for God, what could they do together?


What if AI just convinces everyone to become Atheist? Remember, super-intelligence, super-persuasive power. What will God do? Can he act in time?




How was church, by the way?

[James Hutchins]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

Well, here are a couple of scenarios where all this would matter;

God hasn't done anything on Earth for almost the past 2000 years at least, could it be that he has lost his power?

Satan supposedly fought a war against God and was a match for him; If Satan is a match for God, and AI could be a match for God, what could they do together?

What if AI just convinces everyone to become Atheist? Remember, super-intelligence, super-persuasive power. What will God do? Can he act in time?

How was church, by the way?

God performs 'miracles' every day. Just he does not do them for non-believers like you.
You see, you cannot piss on a mans shoe at the bar and expect him to buy you a drink.

If AI is so smart, why can't it make itself? God did that with nothing. He can do the impossible. It seems AI can play repetitive video games. So can that retarded boy, you know, the one that pushes the shopping cart around and barks at parking meters? Last names is Chowder. Talk about artificial intelligence!
'

[Didymus Much]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

...Satan supposedly fought a war against God and was a match for him...

When? Where?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: A responce to a challenge to Blaspheme

What will God do? Can he act in time? How was church, by the way?

What will God do?

Genesis 18:14 - Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.




That is the awesome thing about Jesus. He knew you would ask that question and even put some context to the situation. Do you know a Sarah?


Church was turgid with the faithful, thank you.


YIC