[johncarlos]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

All of this talk about Hell would be truly frightening if I believed it existed.
You guys are fanatics and radicals. I will not try to prove my point to you because you are so brainwashed and narrow minded, it will have little effect.

You seem an educated person!

Oh wait no, I'm lying. I only said you seem an educated person so I could prove my point:

Gain some manners!

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

Death does not scare me. I know Jesus will take care of me.

I wasn't implying that you are scared of death. I'm saying that I'm not scared of a heaven-less death, as you are. And if I do meet God after I die, I doubt he will be more offended by my Atheism than by the misinterpretation of His message and religion.

I think it's great that you feel security and peace that Jesus will be with you when you pass.
But do you not see the hate and violence that fanatics of this religion spread?
Religion has started more wars and shed more blood then any other independent thing in history.

[Nobar King]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

Religion has []shed more blood then any other independent thing in history.

Even more than mosquitos?

[GOD=life]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I think it's great that you feel security and peace that Jesus will be with you when you pass.

That statement would sound a lot more genuine if you didn't view Jesus as our Imaginary Friend. That's what you atheists call him, right? Oh, and a "zombie". Nice...

Religion has started more wars and shed more blood then any other independent thing in history.

So you want us to abandon Jesus Christ because other people don't use their religion wisely? I haven't started any wars and I don't intend to start any. Why should I be punished for the actions of other people? It's not fair.

Secondly, if we can prove that the total number of casualties due to wars started by atheist dictators or otherwise for non-religious reasons far exceeds those started for religious reasons, will you be willing to abandon atheism?

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

That statement would sound a lot more genuine if you didn't view Jesus as our Imaginary Friend. That's what you atheists call him, right? Oh, and a "zombie". Nice...


So you want us to abandon Jesus Christ because other people don't use their religion wisely? I haven't started any wars and I don't intend to start any. Why should I be punished for the actions of other people? It's not fair.

Secondly, if we can prove that the total number of casualties due to wars started by atheist dictators or otherwise for non-religious reasons far exceeds those started for religious reasons, will you be willing to abandon atheism?

I don't want you to abandon Jesus. I want you to open your fuckin' eyes for one second. ONE. Look at the intolerance and ignorance you surround yourself in. There is actually a thread claiming the Earth is flat. Un-fuckin-believable. There is a thread claiming that Goths are psychopaths, that down syndrome babies should go to hell, and that Obama is the anti-christ. Are you blind to the fanaticism? To the hate???

If you were willing to research and find credible sources of that, I will abandon Atheism and embrace Religion openly.
Don't even think of using Hitler though. He did what he did in the name of the Lord. But, please, enlighten me. I look forward to it.
But if I find credible sources that Religion (in general) has shed more blood than atheism, will you abandon it and accept my views?

[GOD=life]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I don't want you to abandon Jesus.

I don't want you to abandon Jesus either.

Look at the intolerance and ignorance you surround yourself in.

I hope you don't claim that tolerance has inherent value by itself, right? Are you tolerant of intolerance? Are you tolerant of pedophiles? You too are intolerant of at least something. It's nothing to be ashamed of, you just have to make sure that you study your positions carefully.

Are you blind to the fanaticism? To the hate???

Have you noticed that every single claim is backed up by Scripture and rational arguments? Yes, down syndrome babies will go to Hell. Do we want them to go to Hell? No, of course not. Does the Bible say they will go to Hell? Yes, it does.

Don't even think of using Hitler though. He did what he did in the name of the Lord.

Strange, even history books say that he came to power because of nationalism, racism (superiority of Germanic race) and the embarrassment of the first world war (treaty of Versailles). But okay, let's give you a list:

Mao Tse-Tung -- surely you agree that China is atheist
Joseph Stalin -- as you know, the USSR was/is staunchly atheist
Vladimir Lenin -- "a lie often told enough becomes truth"
Karl Marx
Pol Pot

I honestly doubt that you will instantly abandon atheism because of atheist dictators. It would be silly to do so, because it's a fallacy called "guilt by association". I'm trying to show, through example, that it's not a strong argument to tell a religious person.

But if I find credible sources that Religion (in general) has shed more blood than atheism, will you abandon it and accept my views?

No, because I do not agree that truth can be measured by how much blood has been shed. As you may know, many people have fought and died for the civil rights we enjoy today. Does that mean you want to abolish civil rights?

Also, we agree with you that islam is a false religion. It would not be logical to abandon the Truth because another has never found it.

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I don't want you to abandon Jesus either.

It is a little too late for that, but I appreciate the concern, honestly.

I hope you don't claim that tolerance has inherent value by itself, right? Are you tolerant of intolerance? Are you tolerant of pedophiles? You too are intolerant of at least something. It's nothing to be ashamed of, you just have to make sure that you study your positions carefully.

I am intolerant of hate and violence. I am intolerant of cults and mass mind control. I am intolerant of an institution that claims it is intolerant of questions and curiosity and the expansion of knowledge. I am intolerant of many things, sir, as you are. Mine intolerance's happen to be for the better of mankind.

Have you noticed that every single claim is backed up by Scripture and rational arguments? Yes, down syndrome babies will go to Hell. Do we want them to go to Hell? No, of course not. Does the Bible say they will go to Hell? Yes, it does.

I have noticed that every claim is backed up by scripture but it is FAR from logical or rational. Why would God create Down Syndrome babies and send them to Hell?
You assume Atheists are ignorant of the Holy Bible. It's right next to me now, here are just a fraction of my highlighted verses I have a problem with:

01. God supports slavery: Lev.25: 44-6; Exod.21: 2-8; Eph.6:5;Col.3:22
02. Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave: Exod.21: 7-8
03. The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife (what a holy marriage) Deut.22: 28-9
04. 42 children were massacred by bears for calling a prophet baldy. (2King.2:23-4)
05. God commints, orders, or endures every form of atrocity a man could commit. (Pick any page out of the Old Testament at random)
06. The Old Testament laws still apply.

Strange, even history books say that he came to power because of nationalism, racism (superiority of Germanic race) and the embarrassment of the first world war (treaty of Versailles). But okay, let's give you a list:

I know this, but Hitler did say what he was doing was okay because he was pleasing the Lord. A mass genocide of Jewish women, men, children, and babies.

Mao Tse-Tung -- surely you agree that China is atheist
Joseph Stalin -- as you know, the USSR was/is staunchly atheist
Vladimir Lenin -- "a lie often told enough becomes truth"
Karl Marx
Pol Pot

A good list. A lot of blood shed.
Now, would you like my list of religious leaders and the blood on their hands?

I honestly doubt that you will instantly abandon atheism because of atheist dictators. It would be silly to do so, because it's a fallacy called "guilt by association". I'm trying to show, through example, that it's not a strong argument to tell a religious person.

I would not abandon Atheism because of guilt by association. I would abandon it if you showed me that it HONESTLY killed more innocent people throughout history. I would not want to be part of something that has that kind of background and, as we know, history often repeats itself.

No, because I do not agree that truth can be measured by how much blood has been shed. As you may know, many people have fought and died for the civil rights we enjoy today. Does that mean you want to abolish civil rights?

Also, we agree with you that islam is a false religion. It would not be logical to abandon the Truth because another has never found it.

Yes, they were respectable people who fought and died for civil liberties. They were fighting for something honorable. But what have most religions waged wars over? Difference of belief, land, intolerance, radicalism, hate, money, pride. Hardly honorable.

So, all 9,999 other religions are false? If a little boy was born in a remote village in Morocco and was never even exposed to Christianity or Jesus and simply practiced the religion that was around him, God would send that little boy to burn eternally and suffer forever in eternal fires? For not even knowing? It makes no sense. A loving and perfectly just God would not even consider it.

[SayvedByTheLord]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

You are obviously a confused misguided waif.

But Jesus sent you to us, we will do our best to guide you to Salvation™.

[GOD=life]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I am intolerant of many things, sir, as you are. Mine intolerance's happen to be for the better of mankind.

Okay, but then the criticism shouldn't be that we are intolerant, but what we are intolerant about.

01. God supports slavery: Lev.25: 44-6; Exod.21: 2-8; Eph.6:5;Col.3:22
02. Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave: Exod.21: 7-8
03. The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife (what a holy marriage) Deut.22: 28-9
04. 42 children were massacred by bears for calling a prophet baldy. (2King.2:23-4)
05. God commints, orders, or endures every form of atrocity a man could commit. (Pick any page out of the Old Testament at random)
06. The Old Testament laws still apply.

BTW, you forgot the part where Lot - the only man to escape Sodom and Gomorrah - was raped by his own daughters. (although I believe this would no longer be considered moral based on Leviticus)

Sure, there are various aspects that are inconvenient. You will find that many Christians skip those parts of the Bible. We say to them: follow the whole Bible or no Bible.

Do you often talk to Christians who cite Leviticus (Old Testament) when it applies to homersexuals but they are silent when divorce is condemned as well? Those are false Christians who pick and choose parts of the Bible. It's our pet peeve around here.

I know this, but Hitler did say what he was doing was okay because he was pleasing the Lord. A mass genocide of Jewish women, men, children, and babies.

Truth be told, in Exodus there was a mass genocide against all the first born children (animals included). But this was done by God. Genocide by man is hardly ever a good idea.

As far as I know, Hitler made himself a figure to be revered like a God. Like many totalitarian regimes, dictators aren't very humble people... they want to be worshipped as a God.

Now, would you like my list of religious leaders and the blood on their hands?

I have no doubt that you could find many religious leaders or people with blood on their hands. No one is contesting that. The error here is that my religion isn't false on the basis of other people abusing theirs or using the same label.

I would abandon it if you showed me that it HONESTLY killed more innocent people throughout history.

That would be a silly thing to do: it's like saying you'll stop believing in gravity because so many people have died from falling. The Truth is not determined by wishful thinking.

But what have most religions waged wars over? Difference of belief, land, intolerance, radicalism, hate, money, pride. Hardly honorable.

Okay, but you cite 7 reasons here with only 1 being difference of belief. If you look at any major conflict, you will see that in addition to any religious reasons, there are often many non-religious ones as well. The reason people plundered foreign lands centuries ago was because they liked their gold, not because they didn't like their religion.

So, all 9,999 other religions are false?

In the USA, 86% of people believe in God. Would you tell the other 14% of Americans "so you believe 258 million Americans are wrong?" No, of course not. It wouldn't be logical. The Truth is not determined by how many people believe in it.

God would send that little boy to burn eternally and suffer forever in eternal fires?

If that's what the Bible says, then that's what the Bible says. We're not the type of Christians to fall victim to wishful thinking.

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

Okay, but then the criticism shouldn't be that we are intolerant, but what we are intolerant about.


BTW, you forgot the part where Lot - the only man to escape Sodom and Gomorrah - was raped by his own daughters. (although I believe this would no longer be considered moral based on Leviticus)

Sure, there are various aspects that are inconvenient. You will find that many Christians skip those parts of the Bible. We say to them: follow the whole Bible or no Bible.

Do you often talk to Christians who cite Leviticus (Old Testament) when it applies to homersexuals but they are silent when divorce is condemned as well? Those are false Christians who pick and choose parts of the Bible. It's our pet peeve around here.


Truth be told, in Exodus there was a mass genocide against all the first born children (animals included). But this was done by God. Genocide by man is hardly ever a good idea.

As far as I know, Hitler made himself a figure to be revered like a God. Like many totalitarian regimes, dictators aren't very humble people... they want to be worshipped as a God.


I have no doubt that you could find many religious leaders or people with blood on their hands. No one is contesting that. The error here is that my religion isn't false on the basis of other people abusing theirs or using the same label.


That would be a silly thing to do: it's like saying you'll stop believing in gravity because so many people have died from falling. The Truth is not determined by wishful thinking.


Okay, but you cite 7 reasons here with only 1 being difference of belief. If you look at any major conflict, you will see that in addition to any religious reasons, there are often many non-religious ones as well. The reason people plundered foreign lands centuries ago was because they liked their gold, not because they didn't like their religion.


In the USA, 86% of people believe in God. Would you tell the other 14% of Americans "so you believe 258 million Americans are wrong?" No, of course not. It wouldn't be logical. The Truth is not determined by how many people believe in it.


If that's what the Bible says, then that's what the Bible says. We're not the type of Christians to fall victim to wishful thinking.

I want to thank you for being very calm and very reasonable throughout this conversation. I think we can chalk this up to irreconcilable differences, yes? There is no way I will ever convince you to see my point of view for even one second, this is ultimately futile.
Religion can be used in many great ways. Many Christians are avid donators to charities, they have good moral beliefs, and are kind to others like themselves and those they are trying to convert. It is just a hard pill to swallow that billions of innocent people will burn in Hell because they have never heard of God or chose to worship another/none at all, regardless of the moral lives they have lead. I don't think God is so proud.
But the Bible says he is, which is why I choose to dismiss that as well. I respect your opinion and beliefs, and really wish you nothing but insight and joy.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I haven’t stepped in to stop your petty tirade of minor objections to The One True Religion so far because I thought that commonsense and reason would prevail… apparently not. OK, listen up Little Miss Know-It-All:

I am intolerant of hate and violence.

and to this end, I assume you would hate and offer violence to those who are not?

I am intolerant of cults and mass mind control.

And so are we; we just want everyone to agree with God.

I am intolerant of an institution that claims it is intolerant of questions and curiosity and the expansion of knowledge.

You will find no intolerance for those who would expand their knowledge of the Bible here.

I am intolerant of many things, sir, as you are.

Strikes me, miss, that you require a husband ans 6 or 7 children to occupy you woman’s mind.

Mine intolerance's happen to be for the better of mankind.

…in your opinion, but not in God’s.

I have noticed that every claim is backed up by scripture but it is FAR from logical or rational. Why would God create Down Syndrome babies and send them to Hell?

Isa:14:24: The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

You assume Atheists are ignorant of the Holy Bible.

Not at all, just you, The devil can quote the Bible.

It's right next to me now, here are just a fraction of my highlighted verses I have a problem with:

01. God supports slavery: Lev.25: 44-6; Exod.21: 2-8; Eph.6:5;Col.3:22
02. Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave: Exod.21: 7-8
03. The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife (what a holy marriage) Deut.22: 28-9
04. 42 children were massacred by bears for calling a prophet baldy. (2King.2:23-4)
05. God commints, orders, or endures every form of atrocity a man could commit. (Pick any page out of the Old Testament at random)
06. The Old Testament laws still apply.

The fact that you have a problem with them is, you will admit, neither here nor there to God.

I know this, but Hitler did say what he was doing was okay because he was pleasing the Lord. A mass genocide of Jewish women, men, children, and babies.

It is widely accepted that Hitler repented sincerely in the bunker in Berlin and is now in Heaven.

I would not abandon Atheism because of guilt by association. I would abandon it if you showed me that it HONESTLY killed more innocent people throughout history.

This is the most barbaric argument I have ever heard. A body count determines your beliefs??? So, if Hitlere, Stalin and Pol Pot killed more peope than True Christians™ then you accept True Christianity?

Good – no True Christian™ here has ever murdered anyone!

Frankly, the rest is not worth a reply. Your bloodthirsty atheist ways disgust me.

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I haven’t stepped in to stop your petty tirade of minor objections to The One True Religion so far because I thought that commonsense and reason would prevail… apparently not. OK, listen up Little Miss Know-It-All:

and to this end, I assume you would hate and offer violence to those who are not? And so are we; we just want everyone to agree with God. You will find no intolerance for those who would expand their knowledge of the Bible here. Strikes me, miss, that you require a husband ans 6 or 7 children to occupy you woman’s mind. …in your opinion, but not in God’s.

Isa:14:24: The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Not at all, just you, The devil can quote the Bible. The fact that you have a problem with them is, you will admit, neither here nor there to God.It is widely accepted that Hitler repented sincerely in the bunker in Berlin and is now in Heaven.

This is the most barbaric argument I have ever heard. A body count determines your beliefs??? So, if Hitlere, Stalin and Pol Pot killed more peope than True Christians™ then you accept True Christianity?

Good – no True Christian™ here has ever murdered anyone!

Frankly, the rest is not worth a reply. Your bloodthirsty atheist ways disgust me.

I appreciate your reply and point of view, although I disagree with everything you said.
If I murdered the entire population of America, and then let Jesus into my heart and repented, I would still go to heaven. Like Hitler. Not much of a moral code to live by. I am not the Devil and the Devil has not compelled me, because I do not believe in the Devil. He doesn't exist to me, he is not real to me, he does not have any significance in my life. The same is true with God.
And I am not bloodthristy. I'm a 16 year old girl. Atheists in general are not blood thirsty and I personally would never user hate and violence to combat hate and violence. The only things I hate are narrow mindedness and intolerance, of which I don't possess. I can see your point of view and you are free to worship dancing pink faries if you'd like.

[SayvedByTheLord]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

I appreciate your reply and point of view, although I disagree with everything you said.
If I murdered the entire population of America, and then let Jesus into my heart and repented, I would still go to heaven. Like Hitler. Not much of a moral code to live by. I am not the Devil and the Devil has not compelled me, because I do not believe in the Devil. He doesn't exist to me, he is not real to me, he does not have any significance in my life. The same is true with God.
And I am not bloodthristy. I'm a 16 year old girl. Atheists in general are not blood thirsty and I personally would never user hate and violence to combat hate and violence. The only things I hate are narrow mindedness and intolerance, of which I don't possess. I can see your point of view and you are free to worship dancing pink faries if you'd like.

My dear you keep moving your age around. Jesus knows your heart, and who you actually are.

Why not accept that He loves you and only wants to save your soul from hellfire. You would not be here if He had not guided you.

[BrittanyKelton]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

My dear you keep moving your age around. Jesus knows your heart, and who you actually are.

Why not accept that He loves you and only wants to save your soul from hellfire. You would not be here if He had not guided you.

Thank you very much for trying and your concern is greatly appreciated but let me tell you the story of how I ended up a non-believer.

I have a friend in school who belongs to a deeply religious family, all strict baptist. She had been trying very hard to convince me to go to youth group with her for months, and so one week I decided to give it a try (before this I believed in God but did not go to church and He wasn't really a part of my life).

So I went to the youth group meeting and it was so much fun! I loved it. We played hilarious games and the last 30 minutes we had discussions about the bible.

After a couple weeks of going, my friend urged me to begin reading the Bible myself. And so I did. But the more I read, the more contradictions I found. The more I read the less I believed. The more I read the less I wanted to live my life by Him and His word because from it was so much hate and prejudice. I thought for a long while. I discussed my questions with my parents. I admitted my doubt in Him. And when I did that , I FELT FREE. Completely free. I continued to read the Bible so that I could be sure that I really did not believe in Him. Again, the more I read, the more convinced I was.

Something in myself wasn't comfortable with Him for years. I now feel like I have found the answer.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Because I was commanded to...

[blah, blah, blah, poster sell her soul to the Devil deleted]

Something in myself wasn't comfortable with Him for years. I now feel like I have found the answer.

And so you liken Christianity to buying an expensive pair of shoes out of which you have grown and now should be discarded?

Oh! I despair of our youth!