[Cranky Old Man]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

People are...THINGS???

No.

Things = Actions (also known as sin). Good try though.

Ah, you are one of those. Allow me to enlighten you: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

[ReasonableGuy]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

No.

Ah, you are one of those. Allow me to enlighten you: God Hates the Sin, not the Sinner. - NONSENSE!

You are right, that was a link to nonsense. Nowhere in that link was there anything that said that God hated anybody.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

You are right, that was a link to nonsense. Nowhere in that link was there anything that said that God hated anybody.

Allow me to help you out.

Here is a short list of things and people God hates and/or finds to be an abomination (worthy of or causing disgust or hatred).

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.


Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Proverbs 15:8-9,26 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.

Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Deuteronomy 16:22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

Revelation 2:6; 15 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

Allow me to help you out.

You give him too much credit. You have to show him in BIG BOLD LETTERS or he will miss it:

Here is a short list of things and people God hates and/or finds to be an abomination (worthy of or causing disgust or hatred).

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.


Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Proverbs 15:8-9,26 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.

Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Deuteronomy 16:22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

Revelation 2:6; 15 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

Mark 12: 30-31

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Who is our neighbor?

Luke 10:36-37 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Only those who show Christian kindness and mercy are our neighbors.

Who are our brothers and sisters?

Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Only those who do His will.

I think we all agree that as it is said in Jeremiah 44:4, that God does hate sin. That is very true...he despises it. BUT, God does not hate the sinner. As said in Romans 5:6-8:

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Amen! Keep in mind with whom Paul is speaking.

And let's keep reading Romans 5.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Before the law came, everyone went to hell.

Now remember that Paul was speaking with fellow Christians which were called.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So, you can see it's really God's choice who gets saved and who doesn't, wouldn't you agree?

Christ died for the sinners! He does not hate them, and neither should Christians who should "love one another as I love you." (John 15:13)

Again, Jesus is speaking about those who are called. He is directly addressing His apostles.

15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

I would go on and prove some of your other points wrong, but I think I have spent enough of my time on this.

Please continue. We have so many verses we could go over.

By the way, I am a 23 year old Christian who has been raised in a real church his entire life, but who has also studied the bible in quite a bit of depth on his on...as well as other religions.

Nice to meet you. I'm a 35 year old Pastor who has studied the Bible quite in depth.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

Nice to meet you. I'm a 35 year old Pastor who has studied the Bible quite in depth.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

Mark 12: 30-31

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I'm not sure what the relevance of this isolated quote is. I asked our visitor of what he has a "secret stash". How is this unloving? Why would he secretly stash something unless it was something of which he was ashamed? Do you consider it unloving to ask questions of those who post attacks in our Introduction Forum?

I think we all agree that as it is said in Jeremiah 44:4, that God does hate sin. That is very true...he despises it. BUT, God does not hate the sinner. As said in Romans 5:6-8:

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ died for the sinners! He does not hate them, and neither should Christians who should "love one another as I love you." (John 15:13)


I would go on and prove some of your other points wrong, but I think I have spent enough of my time on this.

By the way, I am a 23 year old Christian who has been raised in a real church his entire life, but who has also studied the bible in quite a bit of depth on his on...as well as other religions.

Wow, congratulations. 23. I'm a 39-year-old Pastor who was raised Baptist and studied the Bible long enough to know to capitalize the title of God's Word.

Jesus was the sacrifice to forgive all past sins. As I pointed out, Christians must be without sin; those who sin are not Christian.

I can only assume from your response to this point and the relevant scripture that you continue to sin, yet call yourself a Christian.

How can you call yourself a Christian, yet let your own base desires take precedence over the one and only reason God created you, which is to serve and worship Him?

How can you call yourself a Christian, yet spit in Jesus' face every time you think a lustful thought, masturbate, tell a little white lie, or break any one of God's 600+ Commandments?

Do you justify your ongoing sinfulness by claiming that Jesus forgives all sin, past, present, and future?

Please show me the Scripture upon which you base this erroneous, anti-Christian belief.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: I came, I saw, I felt ashamed

The kid knew he was in too deep so he booked it out of here.