[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

That is ultimately a VERY good point, but knowledge can lead to Faith too. If I knew that your God exists for certain 100% without any shadow of a doubt, then I'd know that instead of being Snuffleupagus it'd be God. Do you get my meaning? Everything Snuffleupagus means to me now, how ingrained he is, would be transferred to God, Snuffleupagus now has a real name (As Snuffleupagus is just a placeholder to avoid confusion) and a confirmed existence for me. Thus the Bible is completely and irrefutably proven to me to be true. Thus, I have Faith. Faith isn't something you can only have without knowledge, you can have faith in someone to perform a task while knowing they're perfectly capable of performing it in the first place. Having knowledge and Faith is entirely possible.

Wrong. You would no longer have faith, you would have knowledge.

They are mutually exclusive.

No it's not what I said at all, at least not to my recollection. Could you quote and repost me on this?

That was in response to Ezekiel Bathfire, who I think proposed the question as if I were Jewish, as he said 613 commandments, which appears in the Torah, not the Bible. What I said was not in reference to the Bible, but he Torah instead.

Earlier you rebuked me for not taking the literal meaning of a passage, in a warning not to be hypocritical. Now you are asking me not take a commandment literally.

Do you deny that Thou shallt not kill is not a sweeping statement across all killing?

Yes.

The Hebrew word "rasatch" means "murder, kill".

In other words, it is "kill" with a particular meaning: "Murder".

Executing or engaging in warfare is not murder.

Here's a reference for you: http://www.truthortradition.com/modu...e=News&sid=225

Also: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=H7523&t=KJV

Hey don't let my imaginary god take the entire blame, it could just as equally be your God having another bet going with Satan like you suggested, or maybe did it to make other people more aware. We've established that your God isn't wholly good, so it's just as likely that your god is as capable of being as cruel and horrible as you imply mine is.

You're the one suggesting Snuffleupagus tortures children to death to teach their parents about sanitation, or something like that.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

So from this.....If you don't kill a homosexual, you've violated a command from God. If you do kill a homosexual, you've also violated a command from God.

Still having trouble comprehending anything: lawful execution, war, defense against demonic manifestation, putting to death those whom the LORD deems is to be killed.

Not surprised, you are ratarded and apparently have a speach intediment.

Leviticus
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Exodus 20:13 says not to kill, or murder; that has nothing to do with lawful execution as directed by the LORD in His Word(r).

You have got to be one of the dumbest heretics I have met. How does it feel to be a failure at life, and eternity?

Exodus
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Wrong. You would no longer have faith, you would have knowledge.

They are mutually exclusive.

It's not that I can't see the difference, I just can't see why they are mutually exclusive. If I had Faith in his existence that would imply I didn't have knowledge of his existence, which makes your statement correct. But if I knew of his existence I could have Faith in God. I think maybe I'm taking the definition of faith as in having complete and utter trust in someone. In which case I concede the point to you. It doesn't mean that if I knew God definitely existed I wouldn't worship him. I think if everyone definitively with ultimate proof knew he existed it'd be impossible not to worship him.


Thank you for quoting what I said earlier. I did not realise that the torah was part of the KJV, simply because of the different names. This is likely why I see similarities in the Jewish bible and Christian bible, as the Torah is part of the Hebrew bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

Yes.

The Hebrew word "rasatch" means "murder, kill".

In other words, it is "kill" with a particular meaning: "Murder".

Executing or engaging in warfare is not murder.

Here's a reference for you: http://www.truthortradition.com/modu...e=News&sid=225

Also: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=H7523&t=KJV

Ahhhh, that is rather enlightening. Thank you for the references to back it up.

You're the one suggesting Snuffleupagus tortures children to death to teach their parents about sanitation, or something like that.

Hah, that's not entirely what I meant. Dysentery is only really found in extremely bad sanitation environs. And I mean seriously bad. If Snuffleupagus did inflict it on the child then it *could* have been out of sheer whimsy, or it might have had purpose. I don't know. But you can't really admonish my god for it, yours does it deliberately too. The whole thing is part of God's plan as far as you're concerned, right? Maybe they have more in common than I thought, aside from the imaginary/real thing.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

I'm not surprised, you are retarded and apparently have a speech impediment.

Fixed for grammatical accuracy. I don't mind people insulting me. I mind people insulting me badly.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

[QUOTE=Rev. Edward Clement;893949]Still having trouble comprehending anything: lawful execution, war, defense against demonic manifestation, putting to death those whom the LORD deems is to be killed. [quote]

I didn't know this before Reverend Rodimer clarified it for me. Before you.

Exodus 20:13 says not to kill, or murder; that has nothing to do with lawful execution as directed by the LORD in His Word®.

Please learn the meaning of the word kill. The definition is to cause death, regardless of reason, purpose or who ordered it. Don't include it in this sentence if ever you are to repeat it to someone else. However, murder does mean premeditated and/or unlawful killing so you are correct there.

You have got to be one of the dumbest heretics I have met. How does it feel to be a failure at life, and eternity?

It feels pretty good to be honest, better than I assume you think. You know what they say, ignorance is bliss.

Exodus
22:20[/COLOR] He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

I don't quite get the relevance. I know I don't sacrifice anything unto any god, at least not that I know of. Are you saying I should be offered as a sacrifice?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Ohhhh I get you, you mean I should be utterly destroyed? Is that correct?

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

It's not that I can't see the difference, I just can't see why they are mutually exclusive. If I had Faith in his existence that would imply I didn't have knowledge of his existence, which makes your statement correct. But if I knew of his existence I could have Faith in God. I think maybe I'm taking the definition of faith as in having complete and utter trust in someone.

I see where we are miscommunicating. Just as "kill" can have different meanings and connotations, so can "faith".

Yes, if you have "proof" of God's existence, you can have trust in Him.

However, by "faith" we mean as in Hebrews 11:1. (Just hover your mouse over the link to see the text.)

Hah, that's not entirely what I meant. Dysentery is only really found in extremely bad sanitation environs. And I mean seriously bad.

True. Usually people who are wholly ignorant of God or civilized life. And usually people ignored by the civilized world; so the lesson would be wasted.

If Snuffleupagus did inflict it on the child then it *could* have been out of sheer whimsy, or it might have had purpose. I don't know. But you can't really admonish my god for it, yours does it deliberately too. The whole thing is part of God's plan as far as you're concerned, right?

Exactly. But I would never assume that God tormented a child to teach someone else a lesson.

Not that He couldn't do so, of course. It just wouldn't be something I would reach for as a likely conclusion. I don't recall it being the case in the Bible.

Now, tormenting someone to win a bet, yes, He did that.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

What have I misunderstood?

Well, given that you are retarded, everything.

Your blatant sinful, and idolatrous lifestyle is a spit in the face of Jesus, and he has cursed you.

Leviticus
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Well, given that you are retarded, everything.

Your blatant sinful, and idolatrous lifestyle is a spit in the face of Jesus, and he has cursed you.

Leviticus
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

I think you have merely read what you wanted to read and are being spiteful because it suits you. Merely insulting me isn't going to achieve anything except to satisfy your ego in being a Christian. You can sit there and insult me all day but in the end you're not being helpful to your cause, the possibility of me converting to Christianity is not lost, unless you can predict the future. In which case that makes you God.

More to the point I was not born with a disability, either mental or physical, and as such am not retarded. What I have is an ailment of society.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

I see where we are miscommunicating. Just as "kill" can have different meanings and connotations, so can "faith".

Yes, if you have "proof" of God's existence, you can have trust in Him.

However, by "faith" we mean as in Hebrews 11:1. (Just hover your mouse over the link to see the text.)

I understand it is necessary for you to have Faith (denoted with capital F for clarity from hence forth) that God exists, is it for the same reasons I said earlier? I can understand it being necessary just not the particular reason behind it. What I mean is, through your texts and history you can see that God exists, but you may have no personal experience that tells you he does, only historical, so is Faith what fills the space there? (That may be a poor choice of words for the last part, apologies if it is.)

Is it necessary to have Faith as written in the bible? (in the context of meeting God himself, as we've gotten through that Faith is what you have without knowledge of his existence) or is it just that you worship and love him as in the commandments?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

True. Usually people who are wholly ignorant of God or civilized life. And usually people ignored by the civilized world; so the lesson would be wasted.

In truth I don't think any lesson is ever wasted. Any progress is still progress in my eyes, and the intervention there would likely make even the smallest of changes. It's what missionaries of old set out to do and some did bring Christianity to parts of the world with no religion.

Exactly. But I would never assume that God tormented a child to teach someone else a lesson.

Not that He couldn't do so, of course. It just wouldn't be something I would reach for as a likely conclusion. I don't recall it being the case in the Bible.

Now, tormenting someone to win a bet, yes, He did that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I assume anything about God. Although when he did torment Abraham in the book of Genesis in the Binding of Isaac, it did have a greater purpose, in proving his Abraham's Faith. And winning a bet over Satan always has purpose. God is omnipotent and all powerful, if he had lost the bet it would have proven otherwise. Winning the bet maintained the fact.

I'd like to think that God does everything with a purpose in mind, and does not do anything frivolously. Obviously he can if he wants to, it just doesn't fit the idea of an omnipotent and all powerful God.

[Rev. Edward Clement]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Incoherent babble deleted.....unless you can predict the future. In which case that makes you God.

More to the point I was born with a disability, both mental and physical, and as such am retarded.

Wrong, that makes one a prophet, which is a still functioning office of ministry, and it is one of the gifts of the Spirit.

Ephesians
4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

1 Corinthians
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
And in maintaining your retardendness, because you cannot help it(you are retarded after all), you have no clue what you are talking about, and you remain damned.

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Wrong, that makes one a prophet, which is a still functioning office of ministry, and it is one of the gisfts of the Spirit.

So you're a prophet?

[gareth the fool]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Let us say, theoretically, that maybe in the future, God has a standing bet with Satan in that all the souls that reside in Heaven and Hell are pitted in a battle against each other in order to assert proof of dominance (although proof is obvious already, Satan is wilful) then what happens if all the people you neglect and shun and spurn and do not ultimately teach because of how you push them away wind up tipping the balance against heaven? You have the choice to bring your faith to people but you merely push them away with your intolerance and your message is lost on their ears. People like Ezekiel Bathfire and Reverend M. Rodimer have taken the time to reason and argue with me, and their message is resounding clearer in my ears than yours ever could as it is based in sensible argument and logical reason. Yours is likened unto a belligerent child, changing what I say to suit their views, taking whatever meaning they choose to rather than the one I mean, and ultimately not delivering anything useful (aside from the bible quotations) except for bile and spittle. Your words thus far are worthless to me, so I request that you either teach me in ways I can comprehend or don't teach at all. Seeing as you view me as a retard, my way of thinking and comprehension is alien to you, and thus you are unable to teach me. This leaves the later option - do not attempt to teach me at all.


On a side note, thank you Ezekiel Bathfire and Reverend M. Rodimer. It is not my place to judge others, but your words are far more useful to me than others thus far, and I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this thread. It has been enlightening, and informative for me. Over the next few days I will be transferring to a new location, so I may be out of reach for a time - but I will attempt to come back to this thread to read what you may post here. I wish you good health in the time between, as your Faith is strong.

[ExGay Alex]

Re: Hello, I am Tempered.

Let us say, theoretically, that maybe in the future, God has a standing bet with Satan in that all the souls that reside in Heaven and Hell are pitted in a battle against each other in order to assert proof of dominance (although proof is obvious already, Satan is wilful) then what happens if all the people you neglect and shun and spurn and do not ultimately teach because of how you push them away wind up tipping the balance against heaven? You have the choice to bring your faith to people but you merely push them away with your intolerance and your message is lost on their ears.

False. We try to teach the people who come here how to be good Christians. James 5:20 tells us that we turn a person from sin, we save a soul.

But we also read the Epistles of Peter and of John. In 2 Peter 2:20-22 we are told that sinners turn away from us on their own, like a dog returning to its own puke. This is certainly not our fault.

Should we just accept everyone? No. In the first Epistle of John, John warns us that the end of the world is nigh, and we should live righteous lives free from sin. 1 John 2:17-18.

Moreover, the second epistle warns us not to lose ground by mingling with sinners. 2 John 1:7-11. John tells us not to let these people get too close. In fact, John tells us DO NOT RECEIVE THEM in 2 John 1:10.

We provide all comers to Landover access to our extensive understanding of the Bible. We follow the Bible as God commands. We do not sin. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 4:6. And if the fornicators and the sinners turn away from our message, that is THEIR problem.

Your suggestion that the sheer numbers of all these sinners can turn the battle to the defeat of God in Heaven suggests that God is weak and powerless. I would like to see your scriptural support for the possibility that God can lose Heaven if too many people switch allegiance to Satan.